Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => Accessories and Modifications - C10 => Topic started by: AZBiker on November 11, 2011, 11:24:34 PM
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So what's everybody running? I live at 5,000', but the good roads by my house go up to 7,000'.
My current jetting is 135/38. Bike is currently equipped with Cali emissions gear but will soon be stripped to 49-state form.
Stock airbox with K&N and stock exhaust.
Bike has never returned more than 30mpg, even on the highway. I forget what the CO & HC readings were but it barely passed even after having the carbs synchronized.
FM says I can go down to 122/35 because of the altitude.
Prescott, AZ does not have a local dyno shop AFAIK and I'm not going to throw that kind of money at this bike anyway. I just want to maximize my mileage. HP is a non-issue, even the way it ran before it had enough power to get me in trouble.
I don't lug the motor either, fwiw.
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So what's everybody running? I live at 5,000', but the good roads by my house go up to 7,000'.
My current jetting is 135/38. Bike is currently equipped with Cali emissions gear but will soon be stripped to 49-state form.
Stock airbox with K&N and stock exhaust. ...
Bought my '94 as a Cali model from a dealer in N. Phoenix. Been living in CO at 7400' for the last 13 years. Same basic setup as yours? Haven't touched the jets, run a K&N, stock emissions stuff, pilot screws dinked with many moons ago, ... I average around 38MPG, got 50+ MPG a few years ago, but I was escorting a Moped around the mountains at the time.
I wonder... has the fuel height in the bowls been checked? Got good spark? No air leaks?
Oh, are carbs are constant velocity, changes in altitude doesn't effect them that much. It's not *absolutely* necessary to change jets @ altitude, but a few do. I'm not one of them.
Rick
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Bought my '94 as a Cali model from a dealer in N. Phoenix. Been living in CO at 7400' for the last 13 years. Same basic setup as yours? Haven't touched the jets, run a K&N, stock emissions stuff, pilot screws dinked with many moons ago, ... I average around 38MPG, got 50+ MPG a few years ago, but I was escorting a Moped around the mountains at the time.
I wonder... has the fuel height in the bowls been checked? Got good spark? No air leaks?
Oh, are carbs are constant velocity, changes in altitude doesn't effect them that much. It's not *absolutely* necessary to change jets @ altitude, but a few do. I'm not one of them.
Rick
Airbox boots are new, as are the boot spring clamp things. When I reassemble the carbs I'm going to check the static float height first and then the fuel level and make sure it's dead on. I even bought the "most expensive plastic tube ever" from Kaw to make sure I get it right. The spark plugs all look fine and the plug wires have been replaced with new ones from Murph's.
I'm sick and tired of pulling the carbs. This is the last time I pull them. If it's not right this time, I'll probably sell the bike and quit riding until I can afford something with FI. I've already replaced both of the air cut valves (outer one was ripped) and the fuel-rail o-rings, they were rotten too.
I never really "bonded" with this bike. Nothing but V-motors on streetbikes for me from now on.
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I'm sick and tired of pulling the carbs. This is the last time I pull them. If it's not right this time, I'll probably sell the bike and quit riding until I can afford something with FI. I've already replaced both of the air cut valves (outer one was ripped) and the fuel-rail o-rings, they were rotten too.
Sounds like the carbs really need a complete overhaul. Everything replaceable being replaced.
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Before making Jetting changes, the basics must be correct. Maintenance adjustments completed. Ignition system checked, valve adjustment, and compression test, all would be a good Idea to insure engine is correct. Fuel Level in the carbs must be checked, and set if necessary. It would be best to make sure the Carbs have not restrictions, or damaged parts, such as blocked jets, air bleeds, transition circuits. Torn or leaking slide diaphragms, or Air-cut diaphragms. Vacuum leaks between Carbs and engine must be eliminated, also Air leaks between Carbs and Air-Box.
So jetting for the A5 model is in the Supplement section of the FSM. You may have the Later model. But here this info is, and nowhere is a 138 main mentioned.
There are a couple of very cheap ways to make sure your Ignition is up to it. First Check both the Primary and Secondary resistance of both coils, and then the Boot that attaches to the plug, as it contains a resistor. If you have the Original plug wires, get new 7mm hypalon plug wire, available by the foot and 4' is plenty. You can replace it easily for a couple of bucks. Don't run a Spark plug that has an "R" in the part # as these are resistor plugs, you already have a resistor in your Boot that goes down on the plug. So D8ES, not DR8ES. This will give a Hotter Spark, simple stuff. Taking plug readings, after this work will show if it is rich.
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Moved from another discussion.
Whatever a person does, they need to find jetting that is the best for both worlds.
Years ago I jetted for a ride in Colorado. Worked great but was awful when I returned home to Houston. I clearly jetted too lean when I did mine.
Rejetting is a heck of a lot of work to do if you change altitudes a lot.
Soo,,,, my thought is (a person might be able to jett extra lean for Hi Altitude and add restricter in the airbox when you go down to the flatlands....)
My thinking is this might give you the best of both worlds..
Is this a viable solution?
By the way, Steve join in with your thoughts.
Have you already built a 2 min kit for altitude and do you recommend changing restriction if you use that kit at lower altuitudes?
In my case, I'm (Flatlander) going to install a 2 min Jett kit in my bike that Steve put together for use with his performance Cam.
If I get the chance to go up to higher altitudes again, my plan is to remove/reduce the restrictor.
Ride safe, Ted
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Bought my '94 as a Cali model from a dealer in N. Phoenix. Been living in CO at 7400' for the last 13 years. Same basic setup as yours? Haven't touched the jets, run a K&N, stock emissions stuff, pilot screws dinked with many moons ago, ... I average around 38MPG, got 50+ MPG a few years ago, but I was escorting a Moped around the mountains at the time.
I wonder... has the fuel height in the bowls been checked? Got good spark? No air leaks?
Oh, are carbs are constant velocity, changes in altitude doesn't effect them that much. It's not *absolutely* necessary to change jets @ altitude, but a few do. I'm not one of them.
Rick
Rick, I always assumed that Sam was Jetted special for Colorado. I am suprised as you go like heck!!
Ride safe, Ted
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135 and 38 isn't even stock cA jetting, stock CA jetting is 130 and 35.
I have my jets kits set up for altitude also, theres several of them running in your area, and I've gotten feedback of high 40's to 50 mpg from them. While your jetting is definitely an issue fuel level will also be an issue, especially if the bike has any age to it. Steve
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Just out of curiosity, has anyone that changes altitudes a lot installed a Dial-a-Jet system on a Concours?
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dial a jet is junk. sorry, just the facts - Steve
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dial a jet is junk. sorry, just the facts - Steve
Nothing to apologize for. Like I said, it was just out of curiosity.
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dial a jet is junk. sorry, just the facts - Steve
Good to know, I've seen them advertised for years.
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135 and 38 isn't even stock cA jetting, stock CA jetting is 130 and 35.
I have my jets kits set up for altitude also, theres several of them running in your area, and I've gotten feedback of high 40's to 50 mpg from them. While your jetting is definitely an issue fuel level will also be an issue, especially if the bike has any age to it. Steve
I'm gonna be pulling the trigger on your 2 min mod jet kit next payday. I don't have the patience to screw with this and reinvent the wheel.
BTW, the only replaceable parts of the carbs that aren't new are the jets, the floats, and the diaphragms. I've already done the float needles, air cut valves, and fuel rail o-rings. Removed my fuel screws and they look fine.
I've even got the gauge to check my fuel level when I get them back together. I'm going to check the static float height with a small mechanic's rule before I put the carbs together.
I'm planning on using iso-heet as the liquid to check my fuel height.
I laugh now when I see a 4-cylinder on Craigslist that "just needs a little carb work."
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You'll like this kit, it works well. You may want to get with Jim Snyder and see if he wants to make an adjustable blockoff plate for you if riding at sea level is a concern. You can just use a larger foam block at lower altitude, but Jim's adjustable plate would be a cool, permanent solution. Steve
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OK just saw this. I have some experience with high altitude jetting in Flagstaff, Az. (7000'). I started with stock cali jetting which was a 130 main and 35 pilot. I changed to SISF orig jet kit which leaned out the main jet mostly. The main jet now is somewhere around a 120 or next size leaner, (Steve's trade secret). I didn't use the needle shim as I don't need that at my elevation, per SISF instructions also. With these changes and adjusting the fuel idle screw (close to 1 3/4 turns out) my bike runs like a whole new animal. It really smoothed out the low end throttle response and I consistently get 47-53 mpg. When I do ride at lower elevations down to sea level the bike still performs very well. There is a slight difference in that low end throttle response at sea level. Its not quite as smooth then as back home. The top end hauls a__ compared to stock. I'm also running SISF exhaust sprocket which is also an amazing boost to low end power. But I'm very happy with these jetting changes at both 7000' and when I go to lower alevations. I don't think his kit that I'm running was really even designed for higher elevations but its a huge impovement over the stock jetting. I would probably benefit from blocking my air intake at lower elevations but I haven't experimented with this. I did try blocking the intake at 7000' and did not like the effect. My personal feeling is I don't want to be restricting air flow at 7000', its already happening. Hope this helps, Mark
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Sparkie,
While I think the OP has it under control.
I and others appreciate the Post on the Jetting. Especially the Down to Sea Level info.
Main Jets are only $1.60 from one of my suppliers.
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I and others appreciate the Post on the Jetting. Especially the Down to Sea Level info.
Main Jets are only $1.60 from one of my suppliers.
Good Point, and those $1.60 jets actually come with legible numbers on them.
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Good Point, and those $1.60 jets actually come with legible numbers on them.
I have no problem at all buying a jet kit from someone like Steve who has done all the work including dyno time. I could blindly start buying jets and changing them but I have no access to a dyno where I live. The small price I paid was well worth it for the results and performance gains. Mark
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I have no problem at all buying a jet kit from someone like Steve who has done all the work including dyno time. I could blindly start buying jets and changing them but I have no access to a dyno where I live. The small price I paid was well worth it for the results and performance gains. Mark
If you are happy with that, great. IMO if I purchase a part, it's mine I paid for it and it should come with all markings and numbers intact.
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Hey, you wanna do all the work I've done to replicate my work? knock yourselves out. Keep in mind the time I've spent, the WBO2 sensor I purchased, the dyno time I paid for, and the tester bikes I've worked on or provided parts to. Keep in mind that nobody would get the benefit of the 2 minute mod jetting had I not stumbled onto it while dyno testing, and worked it though, as the whole concept of blocking the intake to make more power is completely against common intuitive sense. Do I make money when I sell a jet kit? Yes I do. I worked for that money. When you go to work, you expect to get paid, why would you expect less from me?
Also, if you don't feel my product works, or is to expensive, or you don't need it, whatever, just don't buy it. Simple as that. Steve
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Hey, you wanna do all the work I've done to replicate my work? knock yourselves out. Keep in mind the time I've spent, the WBO2 sensor I purchased, the dyno time I paid for, and the tester bikes I've worked on or provided parts to. Keep in mind that nobody would get the benefit of the 2 minute mod jetting had I not stumbled onto it while dyno testing, and worked it though, as the whole concept of blocking the intake to make more power is completely against common intuitive sense. Do I make money when I sell a jet kit? Yes I do. I worked for that money. When you go to work, you expect to get paid, why would you expect less from me?
Also, if you don't feel my product works, or is to expensive, or you don't need it, whatever, just don't buy it. Simple as that. Steve
Steve, I have no doubt that you sell a good product. I would probably purchase it and give it a try, if you did like Dynojet, Dale Walker, Factory and gave me a starting point if I wanted to deviate from what you had determined to be the ideal settings for you. I stand by my original opinion, if I buy a part I should be entitled to know what that part is, the numbers on any given part should not be ground off. I will not buy a jet kit with the numbers ground off just like I will not buy a motorcycle with the numbers ground off.
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AND those manufacturers have thier own jet numbering system, AND if you are buying jets for thier kits you have to buy the new jets from them, and they're NOT 1.60 ea. Besides, why would you want to "deviate" from my jet kits? that's the whole entire point of my kits, the work is done properly for you. think about it, most guys don't want to pull there carbs once, much less multiple times to change the jets. My kits have the proper jets, and fine tuning is done with a 2 minute adjustment to the intake blockage. That's as easy as it gets, but still there's somebody not happy with the way I do stuff. Sheesh. Steve
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Steve in Sunny Fla,
I hesitate to go into the topic as it is heading down a foul path.
I myself Can do carb work. Is your kit Plug & Play, hopefully. Maybe here in this thread you should post up some of your High Altitude Dyno results with the kit, and then also with the cam gear.
But I do like doing All work myself, that includes Carbs.
I did rectify my $1.60 post above. While the price doesn't include shipping, I would never order just a set of jets, so shipping for such a light Item is negligible.
Don't take it wrong, you have spent time developing your products. Which I take that as a good thing for some, but not all.
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I know, Dynojet gets $2.00 per main jet, I know because I run a smaller main jet than they include in their kits. They do give me the option of doing that. The starting point is there, I have the option of going richer or leaner than what they have provided. They are not so insecure that they feel the need to leave us in the dark as to what they have provided. You of all people should understand that there are many of us who are going to try different things,including you. Some of us ride in different RPM ranges than what you feel is important, some of us ride at different altitudes, some of us just like to try different things just to see how it works. I just feel like if I pay for a part I should have the right to know what it is, if for no other reason than to have a starting point for where I need to go if needed or desired.
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Don, thanks for posting this, you've gotten to the heart of the matter - VALUE. let's do a breakdown to see the value of a well sorted jet kit...
Dynojet - 125.00 on average, plus shipping.
2 minute mod jet kit - shipped - 80.00
BUT, as you noted the dynojet kit is to rich (you're correct, it is. it's easier to make the kit rich to have better transitions, but it hurts economy, as you know) so you had to buy more jets. IF you got it right on the first time, that cost you 8.00 plus shipping, plus the BIGGER issue is that you had to pull the carbs AGAIN.
So the DJ kit cost you in the 140 - 150.00 ball park, PLUS multiple carb removal and re-installations.
A 2 minute mod jet kit is 80.00 and a one time carb pull / install.
Since you are so Value -Minded, I'll let you do the math on that one.
Listen guys, do what you want and enjoy it.
Motorhead, power to you, i hope you end up really enjoying your connie, and have the satisfaction of having done it yourself.
Don, I'm really not worried about your opinion of my kit, value, whatever - the simple fact is that you are running a DJ kit and have no intention to try my kit. The only reason you posted up was to take a shot at me because you don't feel I'm "one of the guys" anymore, like you stated to me a couple or 3 years ago, and don't feel I have the right to post like other forum users because I'm now a "manufacturer". Steve
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Steve, you still don't get my point. It's not value, it's the fact that with the Dynojet Kit or the Dale Walker kit or the Factory kit, I get jets that are numbered. If the kit as they sell it to me does not work to my satisfaction I have a starting point. I have that number on the jets that I purchased, so I can make an educated guess as to what I want to do to correct the situation. I understand that you want to protect your income, but IMO grinding the numbers off of parts before you sell them is way out of bounds.
Yes you are right the Dynojet kit was too rich for my use, I sure am glad the jets had numbers on them so I could make a decision on which way I needed to go.
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Well, realistically, you have a starting point. Steve posted the initial steps of the 2 minute mod here for free for anyone to take advantage of. And those instructions started with the stock jet sizes. So there you go. Do your own work from that point.
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Steve, you still don't get my point. It's not value, it's the fact that with the Dynojet Kit or the Dale Walker kit or the Factory kit, I get jets that are numbered. If the kit as they sell it to me does not work to my satisfaction I have a starting point. I have that number on the jets that I purchased, so I can make an educated guess as to what I want to do to correct the situation. I understand that you want to protect your income, but IMO grinding the numbers off of parts before you sell them is way out of bounds.
Yes you are right the Dynojet kit was too rich for my use, I sure am glad the jets had numbers on them so I could make a decision on which way I needed to go.
Steve has spent yrs on ZG carbs and he " finally " got the right combo after a lot of work and now you want to cash in on his time and research. Most of us gladly paid Steve for his 2mm and jet kit. And well worth it!! You can come up with all kinds of excuses to save a buck but he doesn't owe you a thing. SHEESH!!!
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Steve has spent yrs on ZG carbs and he " finally " got the right combo after a lot of work and now you want to cash in on his time and research. Most of us gladly paid Steve for his 2mm and jet kit. And well worth it!! You can come up with all kinds of excuses to save a buck but he doesn't owe you a thing. SHEESH!!!
I've tried to not reply to your comments but I just can't keep from it. I'm not looking to "cash in on his time and research", I'm not looking "to save a buck."
I'm not saying that Steve owes me anything. I am saying that if I purchase parts from someone the parts should not have numbers and markings ground off of them.
I don't claim to be God's gift to carb tuning but I do know that it's important keep track of where you started and what you do at each step you take. Knowing the size of the jets you install in your carbs is the only way you stand a chance of correcting any problems you may have and or any improvements you may think are needed. Would you be happy if your bike came from the factory with the numbers ground off of the jets? If the bike came with the numbers on the spark plugs obliterated? No you wouldn't because you would not have a baseline to make any kind of decision on where to go if you needed to go richer, leaner, hotter and or colder.
I'm sure Steve's kit is a very good product, I've read the reviews and many are quite happy with it. I've also read many reviews in the past about how good Metzler 880 tires are on the C-10. I like to know exactly what I'm installing in or on my bike so if it doesn't work to my satisfaction or if I feel I can make an improvement I do have a baseline. I guess it comes down to the fact I like to know where I'm at, so I have a chance of finding my way out on my own without having to ask someone else to come hold my hand and lead me in the proper direction. YMMV
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Roadhound,
The OP was asking about "High Altitude Jetting--5000' (1,500m+) and above". With Steve's 2mm jet kit (jet sizes ground off) you have the ability to adjust your fuel/air ratio for altitude by adjusting the amount of blockage at the intake of your air box. No changing of jets, so no need to know what size they are.
Of all the posts I have read about Steve's products I can't remember anyone else complaining about them. You've made it clear in a couple of post's that you do have a problem with Steve's jet kits. That puts you in the minority ... a very small minority.
Now if we could all just change our attitude, and get back to explaining to the OP, how great Steve's 2mm jet kit will be for him, being so easy to adjust for changes in altitude. Joe
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I've tried to not reply to your comments but I just can't keep from it. I'm not looking to "cash in on his time and research", I'm not looking "to save a buck."
I'm not saying that Steve owes me anything. I am saying that if I purchase parts from someone the parts should not have numbers and markings ground off of them.
I don't claim to be God's gift to carb tuning but I do know that it's important keep track of where you started and what you do at each step you take. Knowing the size of the jets you install in your carbs is the only way you stand a chance of correcting any problems you may have and or any improvements you may think are needed. Would you be happy if your bike came from the factory with the numbers ground off of the jets? If the bike came with the numbers on the spark plugs obliterated? No you wouldn't because you would not have a baseline to make any kind of decision on where to go if you needed to go richer, leaner, hotter and or colder.
I'm sure Steve's kit is a very good product, I've read the reviews and many are quite happy with it. I've also read many reviews in the past about how good Metzler 880 tires are on the C-10. I like to know exactly what I'm installing in or on my bike so if it doesn't work to my satisfaction or if I feel I can make an improvement I do have a baseline. I guess it comes down to the fact I like to know where I'm at, so I have a chance of finding my way out on my own without having to ask someone else to come hold my hand and lead me in the proper direction. YMMV
:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
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I like to know where I'm at, so I have a chance of finding my way out on my own without having to ask someone else to come hold my hand and lead me in the proper direction.
Please take my hand so that I may lead you in the proper direction. No you do not have to ask but you surely need help to see the light. With Steve's Jet Kit you have reached your final destination, Nirvana, Shangra La or in your language you have now reached the 'End Point'. No longer will you have to Start Again with yet another Starting Point because from now on all you have to do (rarely needed after doing it once) is to simply increase or decrease the amount of foam blocking the intake area.
We do appreciate your input but in this case you are not correct in asking some one to give up all their hard a work just because you think you need a starting point each time you make a change. If you really need a starting point then remove it and put it back to where you started and then look really really close at where the numbers are ground off and you can clearly see the teeny tiny letters engraved there- R.I.P.
Let us pray this is the end of this thread. Please.
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Ok, getting back to my old note/question: :o :o
Original thought/question;
Soo,,,, my thought is (a person might be able to jett extra lean for Hi Altitude and add restricter in the airbox when you go down to the flatlands....)
My thinking is this might give you the best of both worlds..
Is this a viable solution?
By the way, Steve join in with your thoughts.
Have you already built a 2 min kit for altitude and do you recommend changing restriction if you use that kit at lower altuitudes?
RESTATEMENT
My question is, can a person jett extra lean for high altitudes and restrict intake when you go down in altitude?
Steve, do you offer a special 2 minute kit for the guys that live up high?
do you feel your existing kit will work as it is, and simply change the size of the restriction
for different altitudes?
what do the rest of you think about this idea?
Ride safe, Ted
NOTE: On another discussion Jim Snyder said:
Heres where my adjustable intake plate would come in handy in conjunction with Steve's 2 min jetting.
If you knew where to set the air intake at high altitude and where to set it for lower ones, you could
mark the plate with a sharpie and simply move it to the desired location needed for the specific altitude.
Sounds like it will work to me!! (Ted)
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That gives me an idea for an overly complicated and undoubtedly expensive invention. A barometrically adjusted 2-minute-mod block-off plate. :o That would even re-tune the engine as the weather changes for optimal power and efficiency. Riding through a hurricane? No problem, even when you get through the eye wall. A good old New England Nor'Easter? No problem. Alberta Clippers? No problem. ;D
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That gives me an idea for an overly complicated and undoubtedly expensive invention. A barometrically adjusted 2-minute-mod block-off plate. :o That would even re-tune the engine as the weather changes for optimal power and efficiency. Riding through a hurricane? No problem, even when you get through the eye wall. A good old New England Nor'Easter? No problem. Alberta Clippers? No problem. ;D
...and now we're in "just fit the damn thing with aftermarket FI" territory. ;D
I'm going to go with a kit from SISF.
Maybe the reason that he grinds off the jet number is that once he modifies it, it's no longer that number. If you start with a 120 and machine it, it's no longer a 120. To keep the stock numbering on that jet is disingenuous, no?
I can't wait to have a bike that's not as rich as a Wall Street banker.
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...and now we're in "just fit the damn thing with aftermarket FI" territory. ;D
Let's see. Mason jar, rubber band, balloon, and then an extremely complicated linkage to make that little bit of movement adjust the block-off. As long as you don't have an Audiovox cruise control installed, the Mason jar can go behind the side panel. ;D
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Let's see. Mason jar, rubber band, balloon, and then an extremely complicated linkage to make that little bit of movement adjust the block-off. As long as you don't have an Audiovox cruise control installed, the Mason jar can go behind the side panel. ;D
No cruise control, and no Cali emissions stuff either pretty soon.
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Steve has spent hundreds of hours and probably thousands of $$$ perfecting the 2 min mod kit. And what was the result? It works, plain and simple. There is no need for numbers on anything, you DO NOT NEED TO CHANGE THE JETS EVER !!! You simply modify the amount of air going into the airbox to fit your particular application. Once the airflow is properly regulated your bike will respond better than it ever has.
I like Steve have pulled carbs and exhausts off of bikes more times than I care to remember. If I never have to pull Connie's carbs off again it will be too soon. I built an adjustable airbox intake plate to make my adjustments easier. Once I found the "sweet spot" she runs better than she ever has. And as far as Dyno jet kits are concerned, I have installed atleast 25 of them for customers over the years, and very few of them were ever right on the 1st, or 2nd, or 3rd time the carbs were pulled and re-installed. Steve's kit was dead on the first time, but that was due to his hard work and dedication to get it right before putting it on the market. I am proud to have been one of Steve's test pilots for his 7th Gear unit, and a Junior test pilot on the new 2 min mod. Bottom line is it works, so buy it. !!!
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If I was going to go the semi-custom kit route, I would be installing a Factory Pro kit, not DynoJunk anyway. Not a big fan of drilling out a bazillion dollars worth of carb slides.
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Since the thread still appears to have some traction, let me throw some carb tuning thoughts in here.
First, when considering carb tuning, it's kind of like taking a road trip; you can take lots of different routes to get to the same place. Some routes may be more efficient, some may be more fun, some routes seem to go in different directions, but in the end are about the same, time and mileage-wise. Carb tuning is like that; lots of ways to get to where your going.
When carbs are properly tuned, they're running properly at all throttle positions and rpms. Tuning isn't targeted to make one rpm range better at the risk of making another worse, unless you're racing and the lower rpms just don't matter.
Economy and good carburetion generally go together. It's hard to get though. Easy to just jet rich and get good transitions but lose economy. I don't do that with my jetting.
Drilling holes in slides just lets the slides repond more quickly up, but also down. The result can be jumpy slides. I opted to not do that with my kits, as vibration on a connie is always an issue, and I wanted smooth operation.
The foam block - while we've already discussed the tuning flexibility afforded by changing the air rather than changing the jets, the REAL reason for the foam block was to increase the low end and midrange power. Basically the cams / ports for the zg1000 are to big, and there tends to be alot of reversion pulses back through the carbs at lower rpms. This creates multiple carburetion, and lessens available torque because less charge is trapped in the cylinder. Blocking the intake suppresses these pulses and keeps the cylinders filled better.
While some(one) may point to the little sticker on the airbox that says "never let anything obstruct the airbox inlet" and say it's "out of bounds" for me to violate that warning, let me offer this - I have dyno charts of Shoodaben making 117 hp with 1/2 of the airbox intake blocked. The point is that a stock connie, in the 89 hp range, will never be air starved by blocking the intake as the 2 minute mod jet kit does.
And Azbike, I agree, the FP kits are superior to the DJ kits. I run FP needles in my 36's. The 32's (zg1000 carbs) work great with the stock needles, perfect for power and economy due to the multiple tapers, which are pretty much unheard of in the aftermarket. HTH, Steve
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If you are that worried about air starvation at higher RPM's, you can always go the 'flap route' similar to what Erik in Scandinavia did. He essentially took a 1 gallon plastic bottle, cut out a flap, and used that to restrict the air flow on the right side. When RPM's increase, the flap sucks/folds inward, increasing the intake area for the airbox.
Dunno how well this worked for him, but he seemed happy with his results.
I can tell you that at an altitude of 4250-ish feet, with about 1/3 of my airbox restricted with foam, that my Connie is much better behaved at lower RPMs, and has more torque. I can actually tool around at low speeds in parking lots without worrying about 'rpm surge' as much when I nudge the throttle. One time, I was stuck on the freeway at 0-10 MPH highway speeds, and simply used the clutch to modulate my speed, without even paying attention to the throttle. Pre-foam, I'd have to worry about killing the bike if I wasn't careful, with the foam in place this concern went almost completely away.
And this is with the 'stock' Cali jetting! I did take a slight MPG hit (I get mid 40's, so anything out of the ordinary, such as getting throttle happy, affects that number), but I felt it was worth it.
The only time I've noticed an issue with the foam and stock jetting is when canyon chasing at higher than the recommended speed. At those higher altitudes, I did notice a slight lag around 7000 RPM, and removing the foam did help with that lag. The beauty of the foam, though is (if you have the thumbscrews for your side panels), simply pop off your side panel, and remove/replace the foam. Takes about 2 minutes to modify, and NO TOOLS!
That being said, no one is holding a gun to anyone's head to use Steve's jet kits. If you want to go another way, you are of course free to do so. And if you can stumble on the perfect jetting for your application, that's great too.
For many of the rest of us, however, we like doing things once and getting results. Steve has now sold dozens of jet kits to people on this forum, and pretty much everyone that has installed his kits has said 'more power, more torque, better throttle response, better fuel economy', with the caveat that 'I'm now finding myself twisting the throttle more, as I'm enjoying the new power curve waaaay too much, so my fuel economy probably could be higher if I could just control myself!'.
Some of those endorsements have come from people in my area (Colorado, Arizona, and other states at similar altitudes). Unfortunately, with the forum conversion, we lost a few of those posts, so some of those aren't searchable now, although new endorsements have been posted since. The 2 minute mod has been around for a couple of years now...
With all those endorsements I've read over the last several years, and knowing how open Steve has been with his research efforts with us, and the fact he still hangs with us here and gives advice all the time free of charge, for me it's a no brainer. When I have the spare cash, it's 2 Minute Mod economy jets for me.
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Thank you Two Skies and Steve.
That answers a lot of the questions.
Ride safe, Ted
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So everything's together--ended up sending my carbs out to Steve to be cleaned because I did a ****-poor job of it.
First tankful--35mpg. Bike runs great though!
This includes a couple days of "woohoo, I got my bike back, screw the speed limit" type riding, a trip down White Spar, and commuting.
I filled it up today and decided to take out the foam block. Not liking the way it's running with no airbox restriction. Will try cutting the other foam block in half tomorrow to see how she runs on half restriction.
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Derek - follow the info on the tips and tuning sheet about trimming the foam. Cut no more than 1/4" at a time; a 1/4" cut will change the a/f ratio appx 1 point, in other words, from 12:1 to 13:1 and so on. When you're REALLY dialing it in 1/8" makes a difference. If you just cut to much right off, you'll blow past the optimum a/f ratio, and performance and mileage will suffer. HTH, steve
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I'm a professional mechanic, done my own carbs and such for years and I know the value of good tuning work. I have Steves jet kit and sprocket, the bike runs better and fuel economy is very acceptable. I could have spent hours messing with it....but why? when somebody already has! And the testimonys alone on this sight speak volumes (which is why I bought his kit). So if Steve says he has one for high alt. then why would you not use it.
Nuff said
When I opened the box and saw the jet # were missing I just laughed. Not to blame but because I know how important is is to protect your hard earned interests. If one REALLY wanted to know the size they could buy the tool that checks it. But I'm not gonna say what it is or where to get it.
Kudos Steve.
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So far, 38mpg commuting and riding kinda close to the speed limit.
32mpg riding in high winds and making Robert's Market in Prescott Valley to 4 Sons Chevron in Apache Junction in 1hr 32 Minutes. ;D
Not sure I wanna fiddle with the foam yet, hopefully will be back down at 1200' soon.