Author Topic: Supercharged Sport Tourer?  (Read 11188 times)

Offline Rhino

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2017, 01:48:38 PM »
One article said it was aimed at luxury touring. This is just a friendlier H2. Probably a great bike but not luxury touring.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2017, 03:08:25 PM »
Just a comment or two on the chain drive: yeah, I like shaft drives too, for all the same reasons as everyone else. That said, if I really wanted a particular bike for long distance use, and it happened to be chain drive, that would not be a deal- killer for me.

Chain drive gets a bad rap, I believe, because it is not done 'correctly' in the first place. We sling oil all over it, than ride it a thousand and often many more miles, then slather oil on it again. The pistons and rods in the engine would last about two days if lubed like that. :-(   The far better way to go would be with an automatic oiler; they greatly extend the life of the chain, which also reduces the rate of chain stretch and so minimizes general chain maintenance, but at the same time the bike will actually stay cleaner than trying to flood the chain once every now and then. A small amount of oil, constantly applied, works wonders and with reasonable chain gaurds does not even make that much of a mess, at least IMO and for my use.

Some years ago a long- distance rider (goes by the handle 'Warchild', good guy but.... INTENSE :-)  ) decided he wanted a Hayabusa for long distance use. Much like you just said, he wanted a lighter, leaner bike than any sport tourer or tourer offered so he went the other way and started with a stripped down sport bike and dressed it to his liking. Of course he piled tremendous miles on the chassis but he also installed an automatic oiler from the get- go, and as I remember, he was getting 30K+ miles out of a chain / sprocket set. Certainly more maintenance than a shaft drive bike but not so bad as to be overly annoying IMO (and apparently, in his opinion also). The basic point being once an oiler is in place, there really is not any trip that anyone really goes on, including some extreme rides such as across the country and back, that would require chain maintenance along the way.

Just wanted to throw that out there as food for thought.

Brian

Well here it is: https://www.cycleworld.com/2018-kawasaki-h2-sx-sport-tourer-debut

Chain drive, which is disappointing of course but pretty much as expected. For those that use their bike as a
daily commuter and an occasional  touring bike I guess it's not that viable. I was thinking it's still in the running
as a replacement bike for my C14 when mine runs out of warranty in 2021 but maybe not. They didn't mention
anything about increased electrical power for accessories which is definitly one of he C14's strong points. For me
it's still in the running (although the new Honda 'wing looks good too) because of they way I ride. I'm either on a trip or it sits.
I might go on 3 day rides a year.
I usually have to add new tires and change oil etc before any trip, so adding a little chain maintenance before leaving
is not that big of a deal, especially since I'd be going on a trip with more power, about the same torque, better fuel mileage
(reportedly) and almost 200 lbs less weight. Time will tell. I'm getting on in years, so I may even quit riding by then?  :-\  :-[  :(
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2017, 03:09:01 PM »
Chain drive,

chain drive instantly removes any eligibility for the word "tour" in it

It doesn't even have an adjustable windscreen AND it is short to add even more insult.  And short wheelbase.   AND no analog speedometer.  AND small fairings.  AND not keyless (kipass).  I don't even think they moved the pegs.

It is a sport bike with luggage, NOT a sports tourer by any definition I would recognize.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 05:50:07 AM by maxtog »
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2017, 03:13:04 PM »
Yes. That term has apparently migrated over from autos where it is sometimes called 'drive by wire'. Basically it means no mechanical connection between the humans' throttle control (pedal or twist grip) and the thing(s) that moves on the engine to control the throttle.

Not sure what you are referring to regarding a reflash and throttle settings but basically, the humans' throttle is an encoder, and the engines' throttle is a servo or stepper motor responding to the encoders' input. They should never need any computer adjustment ever, and if any part fails, it would not be a case of adjusting but just part replacement.

As far as 'wrong a lot' I betcha' I could give you a run for the money. Stop by my place and I can show you 'wrong a lot' all over the place (funny and sad, all at once).

Brian

Is "ride by wire" the same as "throttle by wire"? I'm not sure, but it is what made me think it is throttle by wire and would need a reflash to change
throttle settings which was why I was under the impression it met euro 4 standards... but unlike others here, I'm wrong a lot.  :(
I guess a shop manual could tell us, but I'm not buying one. I'm sort of losing interest at this point.

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Offline Conniesaki

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2017, 03:35:09 PM »
chain drive instantly removes any eligibility for the word "tour" in it

You sure post that incorrect statement a lot, as though you're the authority. You do realize shaft drives are not maintenance-free?

Here are 2 of us out sport touring on chain driven motorcycles with absolutely no problems:




Offline maxtog

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2017, 03:54:33 PM »
You sure post that incorrect statement a lot, as though you're the authority.

I *am* the authority of my own opinion and views.  Quote:

NOT a sports tourer by any definition I would recognize.

You sure like to quote without full context a lot.... blah, blah, blah.

Quote
You do realize shaft drives are not maintenance-free?

Never said was.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2017, 04:04:40 PM »
Yes. That term has apparently migrated over from autos where it is sometimes called 'drive by wire'. Basically it means no mechanical connection between the humans' throttle control (pedal or twist grip) and the thing(s) that moves on the engine to control the throttle.

The C14 already has one major part of "throttle by wire" because the computer can override (limit) throttle input with the secondary butterflies.  This gives the computer the ability to shape input for drivability, emissions, and traction control.  (And it is used on the C14 to neuter power/responsiveness greatly to comply with emissions, mileage efficiency, and perhaps noise requirements... hence the need for a reflash or tricking the inputs if one wants to "fix" those issues).

The advantage of the total "by wire" is that it is a less complex system- no need for throttle cables and two sets of butterflies.  That should mean fewer components to fail with some additional reliability, less cost, and a tiny bit of weight savings.

I am not sure of any disadvantages of moving from what we have now to full throttle-by-wire except that shaping the input can't be done mechanically at all (like the throttle tubes to address "snatchiness"), so one would be totally dependent on someone hopefully/eventually breaking into the ECU and having the ability to reprogram it.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2017, 05:41:20 PM »
I've never owned a chain drive bike so I don't know what's involved in it but other than changing the rear drive fluid at every oil change (above and beyond what's specified) and the lubing the splines at every tire change (above and beyond) there really isn't much to do to the shaft drive C14.  I did change the cush drive rubbers but only because I wanted to.   I'm not sure it needed that.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2017, 05:58:06 PM »
I've never owned a chain drive bike so I don't know what's involved in it

I have a few, and they are a pain.  Have to clean them and lube them several times a year.  Have to adjust the tension every year or so to compensate for "stretch" (elongation).  Have to clean the "flung" lube off everything regularly.  Have to clean the sprockets regularly.  Have to replace the chain every few years when it stretches beyond service.  Have to replace one or both sprockets every several years due to wear.  Shaft drive is a LOT less work and far less messy.  I love it.  Just have to change the oil in it every few years, takes much less time than a single chain/sprocket clean/lube.

Disclaimer:  The above are my OPINIONS and OBSERVATIONS based on my personal experience with both over the last 20 years.  Other people's experiences will probably vary.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 01:02:09 AM by maxtog »
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Rhino

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2017, 06:03:31 PM »
Have to clean them and lube them several times a year.

Every other week for me. I commute on my Multistrada.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2017, 06:06:08 PM »
Every other week for me. I commute on my Multistrada.

Chains can get fouled surprisingly quickly when run in the wet or around dirt/dust.  Seems no matter what type of chain or lube or how often I tried to keep it clean and lubricated, they would still get fouled quickly and often rust.  There are very good reasons that most bikes that claim to fit a sport touring category have shaft drive instead of chain drive.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline gPink

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2017, 06:31:12 PM »
Nobody has mentioned the ubiquitous belt as a reliable and low maintenance  drive system.

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2017, 08:16:47 PM »
I got one of those!
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2017, 08:54:00 PM »
Nobody has mentioned the ubiquitous belt as a reliable and low maintenance  drive system.

They are only "ubiquitous" on cruisers.

There are reasons you don't see belts used on almost any sports or sports-touring bike.  Although they last a long time (on suitable bikes, AKA cruisers) and are much cleaner, they waste a lot more power and can't handle as much engine power (which is a problem on performance bikes).   And perhaps most importantly, toothed belts cannot tolerate anywhere near as much suspension travel because they can't handle being "slack."  So without a tensioner, they tend to only be suitable on bikes with little suspension travel (which means a suspension far less able to soak up road disturbances, keep the tire planted when needed, and low compression time hurts corning).  With a tensioner, it eats up even more power.  Belts are also wider and require much larger wheel pulleys because they can't wrap as small as a chain.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 01:15:05 AM by maxtog »
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2017, 09:24:10 PM »
A great system but they do not handle very high power throughput. Otherwise they are outstanding and used all the time on machinery, both moving and stationary, up to 50 Hp ratings, with great success. Of course they can handle much greater power but unfortunately there is a direct relationship between power transmitted and the width of the belt / sprockets.

There are several systems out there, some proprietary, all good really but again, they just will not transfer large amounts of power without being obnoxiously wide. And that right there is the entire problem, the width of the belt itself. Otherwise, they are very efficient, require no lube, are self- cleaning, quiet and they do not stretch. It is quite common to design modern machinery using cogged belts with no provision for belt stretch outside of initial setup.

Brian

Nobody has mentioned the ubiquitous belt as a reliable and low maintenance  drive system.
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Offline O.C.

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2017, 05:13:25 AM »
CARPE DIEM

KAWASAKI VERSYS 650

Offline maxtog

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2017, 05:49:46 AM »
non-heated grips.

Video shows it does have heated grips.

So, what is the "SE" variant?  The video doesn't explain.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline O.C.

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Offline Rhino

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2017, 11:29:31 AM »
I still haven't seen a price for this thing.

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Supercharged Sport Tourer?
« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2017, 02:09:59 PM »
Doesn't matter, I don't like it.
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