A&R Motorsports HID kit input

[Caffeinated]

Contemplating whether this would be a better route to go than some of those cheap LED lights mounted to the front fender. This would be cheaper and easier to install.

[DkKnight]

Contemplating whether this would be a better route to go than some of those cheap LED lights mounted to the front fender. This would be cheaper and easier to install.

I am thinking of going the HID route also vs add-on driving lights, as I desperately need additional lighting.
Anybody that has had both with an opinion.

[chi-gpz1100]

Looks like settings up another group buy by me is not going to happen [any time soon].  I don't have the time to commit to this like I did before.  Most of the regular can tell i've been awal for quite some time now.

With regard to color temp, lumens and the like;  the higher the color temp ( in terms of kelvin), the more blue there is in the light).  My kit from 2008 was ordered with 4300K bulbs.  Comparing the 4300K of the kit to the 4300K in my car shows a distinct difference.  The bike's bulbs appear to have more white/blue in it.  I'd almost guess to say the bulbs were closer to 5000K than 4300K.  Either way, you do get more light on the road.

Lower kelvin bulbs emit more lumens (brighter light).  For practical purposes, I probably would not go above 5000K.

Finally, although the bulbs work in the stock headlamp assembly, there is quite a bit of light scatter.  On occasion, i'll have people flash their brights at me, understandably.   The proper way to do HID is to replace the factory lens with a projector type lens.  This focuses the light and eliminates the scatter.  This is however a pricey proposition.  I've been running the c14 hid kit on my fz1 since 2010 and over 30K miles.  To date I've not been bothered or hassled by any leo's for non DOT conforming headlamps.

[MidlifeCrisis]

Just curious... how does the HID conversion for H4 bulb handle the Lo/Hi beam?  Is it a single filament with a motorized shield?  Or dual filament?

I've done many HID conversions, but only on Low beam only single-filament lamps.  To me, 4300k is the only way to go.  I've tried 5000k and it's okay - still very white, with barely noticeable drop in brightness.  Any higher color temp, and you're trying in vain to make your car/bike look more expensive than it really is.

[Jeremy Mitchell]

Just curious... how does the HID conversion for H4 bulb handle the Lo/Hi beam?  Is it a single filament with a motorized shield?  Or dual filament?

I've done many HID conversions, but only on Low beam only single-filament lamps.  To me, 4300k is the only way to go.  I've tried 5000k and it's okay - still very white, with barely noticeable drop in brightness.  Any higher color temp, and you're trying in vain to make your car/bike look more expensive than it really is.

It is a single filament that is controlled by a magnet to change the angle. 

As to "looking more expensive then it really is" that is an opinion that your are entitled to.  But I like the 6000K since it stands out in traffic without being obviously blue/purple or annoying.  At least to my eyes (and that is the only thing that matters to me since I was the one that paid for it).

[MidlifeCrisis]

It is a single filament that is controlled by a magnet to change the angle. 

As to "looking more expensive then it really is" that is an opinion that your are entitled to.  But I like the 6000K since it stands out in traffic without being obviously blue/purple or annoying.  At least to my eyes (and that is the only thing that matters to me since I was the one that paid for it).

Appreciate the explanation.  Not sure how tilting of the filament angle would change the beam pattern in an H4 reflector.  The blocking shield would still be there.

6000K isn't too terrible.  It's the very visibly blue/purple ones that I was mostly referring to.  Still, from 4300K, light output drops off steadily as the color temp increases, and human eye's sensitivity and depth perception decreases as the wavelength decreases (bluer).  There isn't a technical reason to go higher, other than personal preference.

That said, the one advantage that HID does buy you - regardless of color temp - is attention from oncoming drivers, because the different color light does jump out in a sea of incandescent yellow.  The bluer your lights is, however, the more that attention tilts toward the negative side.  The last thing I want to do - especially on a bike - is to irk the ire of other drivers.

[Jeremy Mitchell]

It actually pulls the bulb closer to the housing to change the spread and angle of the beam.  There is some scatter but is still much better than the stock lighting which was already very good from the factory.

[MidlifeCrisis]

Okay, that make sense.  So it pull the filament back to where the opening is on the blocking shield.

[Jeremy Mitchell]

Not sure exactly, for all I know they just sprinkle fairy dust on it and it works.   

It is a little to bright for me to make out exactly what is going on but I can hear it click back and forth when I hit the bright/dim switch.

[ZG]

Standing next to my Connie I can flip back and forth between low and high beem and see them push out and retract back in, it's pretty cool IMO... 

[chi-gpz1100]

Tampons for bulbs... What will they think of next

[VirginiaJim]

And riders buy them...

[The Pope]

I figured out what I was doing wrong. I am not used to this forum software.

-Patrick

You have a pm.

[maxtog]

Got the kit in yesterday and installed it today.  I would not classify it as "easy", but not extremely difficult either.  Had it not been for the web instructions/photos, it would have taken a lot longer.  As it is, with having to remove the Canyons and fairings and such, it took me about 5 hours.  The kit is good quality stuff, well packed, reasonable pricing, and things went just like the instructions show.

It is a cold and rainy day today, plus I am tired, so I did not ride the bike tonight with the HID installed yet.  So some of my concerns, below, are based only on theory and non-riding observation....

I took some comparative photos (Philips halogen on the viewer's left, HID on the right).   The first two are regular photos and in the second two the lenses are covered with paper and the exposure value reduced.  So far, I am disappointed that the HID isn't brighter than it is.  I am also extremely concerned that the HID only throws light only up into the reflector on both high and low beam.  This is not the case with the Halogen, as you can see.  Apparently that is the design of the HID bulb holder, which I will show in the next posting...

[maxtog]

Below are some additional photographs.

The first is a comparison of the Philips halogen bulb with dual filaments to the HID carrier/shroud.  You can see on the halogen that there is a "pan" under the low-beam filament that blocks all light going downward.  There is also a blue painted/dyed area around the low-beam filament that makes the resulting light whiter.   The high-beam element has no such painted area.   On the HID carrier, you can see slots on the bottom of the HID shroud, but not much light goes through them, ever.

The second photo is what the A&R HID bulb assembly looks like with the bulb installed.  The front of the carrier is shiny and blocks all light going straight out so all light coming out of the bike is reflected.  The metal cover in contact with the bulb does not move, and it helps to block stray light going up.  that cover is only on the top.  On high beam activation, a magnet pulls the bulb and cover to the back of the bike several millimeters.  The business end of the bulb where light comes out does NOT line up with the slot in the bottom of the carrier and thus not much light ever comes out of the bottom.

The last photo is what the carrier and bulb looks like when installed into the Concours' headlight reflector.

[ZG]

Congrats Max!   
 
I can totally see the brightness difference in your first pic on the post before last. I think you'll notice it even more when you ride at night, I did, not only brighter but just more of a cleaner/crisp light if that makes any sense...
 
Enjoy! 

[Pokey]

How the light is dispersed and adjusted is most important, not so much how bright.

[CitrusC14]

I have had the A&R HID set up for a few months now.  The amount of light these put out on low beams is amazing.  Makes the stock bulbs look like a couple candles.  The problem I am having is with the low beams adjusted just right (plenty of view and no mad on coming drivers flashing me) the high beams are in the trees, completely useless.  The only thing I can see is when the bulbs retract in when put on high beam, it appears they also tilt (front end of bulb is higher than the rear).  To anyone who have these HIDs how are your highbeams?  Is this a common problem or do I have a problem?

Thanks for any input/advice.

Tim

[connie and me]

Real nice writeup Maxtog on this subject!! I ride at nite every day, (mourning commute) seriously considering this A&R kit, with more of your findings in the next few days and weeks, Also, can't advise on CitrusC14's issue, but will be monitoring is outcome.....

[maxtog]

[...]It is a cold and rainy day today, plus I am tired, so I did not ride the bike tonight with the HID installed yet.  So some of my concerns, below, are based only on theory and non-riding observation.... [...]

OK, now I have a nighttime ride, and had to go a good ways to get to an area with no street lights and no cars so I could make some real observations.

Yes, they are brighter, no doubt now.  And the 4300 color is excellent, seems the same as on my Infiniti.  I immediately noticed the top cutoff is lower than on the halogens and had to stop several times and aim them up higher.

They are a lot more distracting than the halogens because they are "bouncier".  I think there are two causes for this:  One, there is a lot more mass than just bulbs in the housing now, but more importantly, there is a BOTTOM cutoff that is much more pronounced than with the halogens.  So the areas near the bike have much less light that further down the road.  All the vibration and bouncing of the bike is clearly relayed back to the rider from the bottom cutoff and it is going to take some getting used to.  Also, there are a few horizontal darker stripes in the beam.   The overall pattern is not great, worse than the halogens, MUCH worse than the Infiniti projectors.  I agree that there is more scatter with the A&R HID than the stock halogens, too.  The scatter is not awful, though.

I was worried the high beams would not be as effective, since [unlike the halogens on high beams] they are only using half the reflector.  I think those fears are unnecessary.

It is going to take me more time to aim them properly.  I am always afraid of blinding people, so I will have to go do some additional tests and adjustments later.   I did the best I could while actually riding to try and make sure the low beams would not hit mirrors of other cars.  After those adjustments (mostly raising them), when I got off the bike (side stand) and walked 100 feet away, the low beams seemed to be below my knees, which seemed surprisingly low.

Overall, it is an improvement over halogen.  Once I get a few more trips at night and finish adjusting, I will know how much of an improvement.  I am spoiled by expensive-car HID projectors and might have had my initial expectations a bit too high.  I have no experience with "HID kits", so I don't know what is typical.