Author Topic: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle  (Read 13562 times)

Offline Cholla

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2013, 08:12:30 AM »
You say the bicyclist "defended his line". IOW he chose to move to the center of the road even though the m/c was approaching. You also said the bicyclist is to remain to the right if safely possible.
It wasn't safe to move left because a vehicle was approaching. IOW- the bicyclist was the aggressor. He was not avoiding a hazard, he was riding aggressively and chose to move to the inside of the lane even though the hazard was approaching from the rear. I am not defending the motorcyclist but let's say he crossed the center line to avoid the bike and caused an accident. He was only doing the same as the bicyclist by "aggressively defending his line".
Both were wrong.
Beware the Black Widows...Feared throughout the land!

Offline stevewfl

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4268
  • Country: 00
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2013, 08:12:47 AM »
When I'm not on the Connie or a sportbike, I'm rocking the carbin fibre on the road. Ok I'll be honest, its been a dust collector lately maybe I'll put it on the craigslist 

POKEY had a sign put up in his honor-  ;D




Some miles in NC









A few in SC







^^^^^^my right to run red lights and ride through cross walks, on side walks. with full forgiveness of the law!

“The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.” St. Augustine

Offline Cholla

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2013, 08:35:32 AM »
That must be Beauregard, the wonder dog!
Beware the Black Widows...Feared throughout the land!

Offline ARS

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Country: us
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2013, 08:38:27 PM »
are we grumpy haters

+1
As some of you, I live in both worlds.  Bicycling and motorcycling are two of my favorite passions.  Attitudes have change in the past 30 years on the road.  I don’t understand it so I couldn’t start to explain why so many of us have become so aggressive on the roads.  When I say aggressive, I’m referring to down to vindictive like behavior.  This includes all types of vehicles and people.
25 years ago I rode a bicycle from San Diego to Northern Wisconsin carrying 70 lbs of gear.  I didn’t have one single problem with motorist. . .not one!  Now if I want to go on a 20 mile bicycle ride I have to launch out of my garage on a Saturday or Sunday morning as the sun starts to pop up to avoid the drunks and punks.  Even still I’ve been forced onto the soft gravel shoulder by some punk a$$ cager twice on a flat straight stretch of county road in the middle of nowhere with no other traffic!!
Not looking for a group hug . . .it just sucks having to exercise my open carry rights while riding a bicycle.  My 9mm doesn’t match my neon shirt.
 :shoot:  ;)

Offline Cholla

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2013, 08:45:35 AM »
Ya don't have to be on a bike of any kind to avoid some cagers. They even challenge 18 wheelers!
Beware the Black Widows...Feared throughout the land!

Offline Slideways

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
  • Country: us
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2013, 09:33:02 AM »
You say the bicyclist "defended his line". IOW he chose to move to the center of the road even though the m/c was approaching. You also said the bicyclist is to remain to the right if safely possible.
It wasn't safe to move left because a vehicle was approaching. IOW- the bicyclist was the aggressor. He was not avoiding a hazard, he was riding aggressively and chose to move to the inside of the lane even though the hazard was approaching from the rear. I am not defending the motorcyclist but let's say he crossed the center line to avoid the bike and caused an accident. He was only doing the same as the bicyclist by "aggressively defending his line".
Both were wrong.

What I said was that the motorcyclist told me the cyclist was defending his line. Truth is that motorcyclist is not a bicyclist (he told me as much) and we don't know for certain. The cyclist could simply have been going at a speed likely still under the speed limit but fast enough that he felt he needed the lane to make the turn or maybe some obstacle had him move over or maybe he was just plain an idiot and felt he had a right to the whole lane. Bottom line is we don't know. What is known is that the motorcyclist had an option and he told me this, he could have avoided the contact but felt he also was entitled to the same patch of asphalt occupied by the bicycle at that moment and chose not to avoid the cyclist. It was not an accident, it was intentional. I go back to the question of how is this the fault of the cyclist?

If the guy on the BMW had a better understanding of what a guy on a bicycle might be experiencing and a more appropriate sense of self entitlement his first assumption might not have been that the cyclist was "aggessively defending his line".

How many of us have done something perfectly legal but none the less it pissed off some cager who did not understand some aspect of motorcycling? Say you split lanes and move to the head of the line at a stop light. The light changes and you are gone, never got in anyones way. No big deal if it is legal in your state, right? Next light here is some dude in car yelling at you. Jeez, really guy? Well if Mr. Yelling Guy rode a motorcycle it never would have bothered him. Let's say he gets to work and is bitching to co-workers about the idiot on the motorcycle and one of these is a motorcyclist who calms him down and explains what the guy on the motor was really doing. I know, I know over simplified but and example of how to be an ambassador for motorcycling and perhaps change someones understanding of what we do. THAT is all I am trying to do here.

Okay no more posts on this from me. If you still think this is about who was at fault I failed....
If it can't be fixed with a hammer you can sure as hell teach it a lesson.
2008 ABS, Area P full system, Power Commander, Skene Design, Canyon Cages (personally tested, don't ask), Sargent low saddle, Tamer throttle tube, Cee Bailey Euro Tour, bar risers, Throttlemeister, Tech Spec,

Offline Strawboss

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 690
  • Country: us
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2013, 09:49:27 AM »
My opinion is that many drivers are mad a bicyclists because there are a lot of cars, not many bikes, but the bikes seem to be ridden by folks who appear to be on a mission to force folks into accepting bikes on the road, its almost taunting, why ride 3 abreast down a  busy main road during rush hour backing up traffic. Again, I've got no problem with bikes on the road, provided they obey all the laws everyone else has to. Many don't, but, many do, not enough in my opinion. Why is this not presented by the bycyclists when they are promoting sharing the roads? I've not seen it when I see a presentation. All I've ever seen is bad drivers. I think the motorcyclist was wrong.
COG 5852-AMA Life 302525-NRA 9098599-SASS
2001 Concours-1982 KZ550A-1979 Triumph Bonneville-1995 Honda SA50

Offline gPink

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5686
  • Country: cn
  • MMVIII C XIV
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2013, 10:29:17 AM »
My opinion is that many drivers are mad a bicyclists because there are a lot of cars, not many bikes, but the bikes seem to be ridden by folks who appear to be on a mission to force folks into accepting bikes on the road, its almost taunting, why ride 3 abreast down a  busy main road during rush hour backing up traffic. Again, I've got no problem with bikes on the road, provided they obey all the laws everyone else has to. Many don't, but, many do, not enough in my opinion. Why is this not presented by the bycyclists when they are promoting sharing the roads? I've not seen it when I see a presentation. All I've ever seen is bad drivers. I think the motorcyclist was wrong.
kinda like the gay marriage thing

Offline Strawboss

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 690
  • Country: us
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2013, 10:43:04 AM »
I wouldn't know about a gay marriage thing. Another point of contention is nowhere during any PR or legislation presentations have I seen anything where bicyclists are required to share anything except space on a public roadway where everyone else has to pay to use it in the form of taxes on gasoline or license plates. If this can be done, then how? Require bicycle license plates? That may make some better accept bicycles on the road. I know bicycles are not as destructive as some other vehicles that use the road, but if we are talking about sharing, then lets talk about all of us really sharing the roads. Just a thought, not sure what other states do.
COG 5852-AMA Life 302525-NRA 9098599-SASS
2001 Concours-1982 KZ550A-1979 Triumph Bonneville-1995 Honda SA50

Offline MrPepsi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1108
  • Country: 00
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2013, 10:55:41 AM »
Well if you consider that motorcycles are cheaper to license than cars, maybe partially due to wear and tear on roads, then bicycles are free because they cause nearly no damage what so ever. They are still a form of transportation and have the right to use the road, even if I don't like when they get in my way.
Brent Johnson 
2009 C-14 "Razzi"

Offline Cholla

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2013, 11:43:44 AM »
Again, BOTH were "defending their line". Why is one correct in doing so and the other wrong?

And I'll ask again, what if it was another m/c or pedestrian?

If bicyclists want to be welcomed more they need to follow the laws and stop acting like they own the roads. Here we have lots of bicyclists as the roads are flat and straight. The know you are there and line up 3- abrest knowing you are there. The laws say single file on the right. Its not bicycles causing the problems, its the idiots on them.
This sounds just like the old HD threads, doesn't it?
Beware the Black Widows...Feared throughout the land!

Offline Strawboss

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 690
  • Country: us
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2013, 12:05:18 PM »
Money collected from gasoline and plates goes towards maintaining that road that bikes use, and it also goes to creating bike specific paths and lanes, and towards making the usually car centric road more friendly to bikes with striping, signalling, and signage. I think requiring bikes to be licensed and registered and riders themselves with a low fee would go a long way towards maintaining roads, coordinating and trying to ensure proper operation of them and better educating both riders and drivers in their safe and eco friendly use and providing an environment conducive to more friendly relations between them both.
COG 5852-AMA Life 302525-NRA 9098599-SASS
2001 Concours-1982 KZ550A-1979 Triumph Bonneville-1995 Honda SA50

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #52 on: March 25, 2013, 10:22:29 AM »
What I said was that the motorcyclist told me the cyclist was defending his line. Truth is that motorcyclist is not a bicyclist (he told me as much) and we don't know for certain. The cyclist could simply have been going at a speed likely still under the speed limit but fast enough that he felt he needed the lane to make the turn or maybe some obstacle had him move over or maybe he was just plain an idiot and felt he had a right to the whole lane. Bottom line is we don't know. What is known is that the motorcyclist had an option and he told me this, he could have avoided the contact but felt he also was entitled to the same patch of asphalt occupied by the bicycle at that moment and chose not to avoid the cyclist. It was not an accident, it was intentional. I go back to the question of how is this the fault of the cyclist?

If the guy on the BMW had a better understanding of what a guy on a bicycle might be experiencing and a more appropriate sense of self entitlement his first assumption might not have been that the cyclist was "aggessively defending his line".

How many of us have done something perfectly legal but none the less it pissed off some cager who did not understand some aspect of motorcycling? Say you split lanes and move to the head of the line at a stop light. The light changes and you are gone, never got in anyones way. No big deal if it is legal in your state, right? Next light here is some dude in car yelling at you. Jeez, really guy? Well if Mr. Yelling Guy rode a motorcycle it never would have bothered him. Let's say he gets to work and is bitching to co-workers about the idiot on the motorcycle and one of these is a motorcyclist who calms him down and explains what the guy on the motor was really doing. I know, I know over simplified but and example of how to be an ambassador for motorcycling and perhaps change someones understanding of what we do. THAT is all I am trying to do here.

Okay no more posts on this from me. If you still think this is about who was at fault I failed....

If that is the case then the motorcyclist committed assault. I don't care how bad the bicyclist F'ed up or how annoying or how rude, if you can avoid an accident without undo risk to yourself you had a duty to avoid the accident. Especially if it results in an injury accident.

Offline Cholla

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #53 on: March 25, 2013, 10:54:48 AM »
But he was only "defending his line"....
Beware the Black Widows...Feared throughout the land!

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2013, 11:11:17 AM »
One last post on this subject. I live in Colorado and it seems to be the bicyclist mecca here. Every spring we have some sort of rally that goes by our house that seems to go on forever. Numbers on their jersey up into the 5 digits. I call it the day of the living bicyclist. So I too get annoyed with the bicycles riding abreast as though all the cars should just go 10 mph like they do. But you know there are millions of cagers that are annoyed by us. If we cannot and let tolerance prevail then don't expect the cagers to do it either. No matter how annoying, be patient and let them do their thing. Maybe this advice will rub off on the cagers and they will let us do our thing.

Ok I'll get off the soap box now, thanks for listening.

Offline Cholla

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2013, 02:09:10 PM »
So the cagers and motorcyclists must show tolerance while bicyclists run roughshod....I get it!
Beware the Black Widows...Feared throughout the land!

Offline stevewfl

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4268
  • Country: 00
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2013, 02:22:55 PM »
Haters gonna' hate!   :D




“The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page.” St. Augustine

Offline gPink

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5686
  • Country: cn
  • MMVIII C XIV
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #57 on: March 25, 2013, 02:24:16 PM »
So the cagers and motorcyclists must show tolerance while bicyclists run roughshod....I get it!
hehehe
I see the correllation now. Bicyclist=liberal.

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #58 on: March 25, 2013, 02:27:44 PM »
So the cagers and motorcyclists must show tolerance while bicyclists run roughshod....I get it!

So are you saying cagers shouldn't show tolerance for us motorcyclists? We all do stuff that other people don't like. If it's smoking, drinking, riding bicycles, driving fast cars, riding motorcycles or name anything here, there is always someone annoyed by it and advocating to have it curtailed or eliminated. If we all advocate eliminating stuff we don't like, don't be surprised if your hobby/passion gets curtailed or eliminated. So if some bicyclist holds you up for a few minutes, feel free to flip them the bird, honk the horn, but then get over it and get on with your life and understand that yes, you yourself, will do something to annoy or inconvenience someone else in the near future.

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
« Reply #59 on: March 25, 2013, 02:30:33 PM »
Haters gonna' hate!   :D



I'd be happy to follow that bicyclist at 10 mph all day long :P