Author Topic: New battery - no Kipass  (Read 2613 times)

Offline Sixgun17

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New battery - no Kipass
« on: June 18, 2018, 09:12:35 PM »
I think I've read everything I could find using the Search function, but I didn't see anything that quite matched my problem.  I apologize if I missed it.

I have a 2011 C14 and just now have had to replace the factory battery - no complaints about that! 

I had the battery out for a few days while the new battery was shipped.  New battery shows 13.29v just sitting there with nothing attached.  After installing, I've got no Kipass - or anything else.  I've never had trouble with Kipass before.  My battery connections are solid.  I tried the gray connector trick - nothing.  I looked at all the fuses, but every one I pulled at looked good.

Is it possible I got a lead touching something it shouldn't have when I was reinstalling and fried something?  Any suggestions are welcome.  The big girl has never given me any trouble before, but she's sure being obnoxious right now.

Offline just gone

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2018, 10:36:47 PM »
I have a 2011 C14 and just now have had to replace the factory battery - no complaints about that! 

I had the battery out for a few days while the new battery was shipped.  New battery shows 13.29v just sitting there with nothing attached.  After installing, I've got no Kipass - or anything else.  I've never had trouble with Kipass before.  My battery connections are solid.  I tried the gray connector trick - nothing.  I looked at all the fuses, but every one I pulled at looked good.

Is it possible I got a lead touching something it shouldn't have when I was reinstalling and fried something?  Any suggestions are welcome.  The big girl has never given me any trouble before, but she's sure being obnoxious right now.

By the gray connector trick I'm assuming you mean the KIPASS bypass trick that is used if you have a stuck KIPASS switch in the stove knob switch assembly, if so good thinking. I was going to mention the big rock trick but your trick is better.  :thumbs:

I think a lot of people are going to tell you to check the ground connections to the frame, you know, clean it sand it clean it again re-tighten the cable coming from the battery negative terminal to the frame. Me too, but also check the 30 amp master fuse if you haven't already. These are the only points of failure I can think of off hand that don't involve something fried.
No I have no idea why I have A 25 Amp fuse where a 30 amp fuse should be in the photo, I'm sure it's been changed but now I have to go check. Poop!


Offline maxtog

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2018, 12:57:51 AM »
+1  on the checking of the grounds.  The Concours just hates, hates, hates poor connections on/near the battery.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Tree

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2018, 01:53:06 PM »
The connector on top of the starter relay may have been disturbed while you were digging the battery out, but, since you're checking the 30A fuse (highly suggested) you will have to remove the connector anyway...  Take the extra step and check fuses with an ohmeter if you have one.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2018, 02:12:25 PM »
The easiest way to check the main 30 amp fuse is to open the three fuse boxes under the saddle and check them for voltage. Ground one probe of a VOM (voltage- Ohm meter) and touch the other side to all of the terminals in the fuse boxes- if ANY show a steady 12 to 13 volt DC reading, then the main fuse is good. This method is much easier than removing the battery then fishing out that pesky fuse behind the battery IMO and IME.

Brian

The connector on top of the starter relay may have been disturbed while you were digging the battery out, but, since you're checking the 30A fuse (highly suggested) you will have to remove the connector anyway...  Take the extra step and check fuses with an ohmeter if you have one.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2018, 02:36:59 PM »


I had the battery out for a few days while the new battery was shipped.  New battery shows 13.29v just sitting there with nothing attached.  After installing, I've got no Kipass - or anything else. 

well, likely if he has no juice to the KiPass, he won't have juice to test blown fuses with the battery...No?

anyway, back to decoding from your original post...

SHIPPED BATTERY...

13.29V WITH NOTHING ATTACHED....

I've bought batteries and had them shipped, and when they arrived, seemed fine...
but, who says that battery wasn't tossed like a brick, and suffered an internal fracture in the tie bars of the cells?
you may get a 13v reading off a VOM, but that ain't  a load...
pull it and have it load tested at PepBoys/AutoZone/Advance, or some other such place...

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Offline tweeter55

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2018, 02:47:43 PM »
I was taught for best results to charge a new battery before putting it in use.
I agree with you MOB. A voltage test with no load sometimes doesn't mean a whole lot.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2018, 03:34:29 PM »
+1
A voltage meter across an unloaded battery doesn't really give much info at all.  It must have some load on it during the measurement.   I usually use at least a 5 watt test lamp.... which is good enough for testing electronics-level capacity (or with the ignition "on" if it is hooked up already).  But even that isn't useful when it comes to actually starting the engine.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2018, 03:41:37 PM »
I keep an old headlight, and socket wired to clips, just for that purpose, especially when I charge batteries that are "old and assumed" un usable...
sometimes they jump back to life tho, after fully charging and draining a while, then charged again... I always "load" a new battery once charged, especially when I use my tender on one for a spell... I clip the light to the batt, let it glow for 30 seconds, and check Volts, then remove the light, and recheck volts, and let it sit for 10 minutes, and recheck again,
this gives some idea of charged volts, loaded, and if the cell comes back to life on it's own by chemical reaction.
It isn't a viable load test by any means tho... just tells me if the battery is chargeable, and if i should continue or toss it.

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline Sixgun17

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2018, 08:01:32 PM »
Wow - you guys are the greatest!  Quick and useful responses.  I'm extremely grateful for the help.

I'm making progress, but no victory just yet.  The 30 amp main fuse was indeed popped - winner, winner chicken dinner!  I replaced it with a new fuse, and am now able to push down on the key, wake up the display, and turn the key. 

However, the bike will not start.  The display only stays on for maybe 3-5 seconds, then goes blank.  I do have the red blinky light now.  Any thoughts on this set of symptoms?

I now have the battery on the Battery Tender to get it pumped up to where it needs to be and will go through the remaining fuses again.

Offline maxtog

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2018, 09:20:14 PM »
If you can press the stove knob and the bike wakes up, and you can turn the knob to the run position, that means it is "alive" AND it is seeing the active fob.  Basic battery, KIPASS, and the ignition electronics are probably no longer on the list.

Keep in mind the battery can supply all the power needed to perform all the normal startup electronic stuff but then you press the starter button and wham- major load and the voltage drops below critical and the electronics just die.

When you are really sure the battery is fully charged and able to supply full amps, next check that the starter button is actually working and the starter circuit is getting power/ground.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline just gone

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2018, 11:48:27 PM »
However, the bike will not start.  The display only stays on for maybe 3-5 seconds, then goes blank.  I do have the red blinky light now.  Any thoughts on this set of symptoms?

I now have the battery on the Battery Tender to get it pumped up to where it needs to be and will go through the remaining fuses again.

Hmmmm...the display going blank after 3-5 seconds is sort of confusing....unless the battery needs a real charger instead of a tender type charger. I've had batteries go bad on the jr. type chargers (less than one amp) so I'm not sure if that is going to get your battery up to snuff in less than a week or two. I was going to say check the kill switch and/or the bike isn't in gear with the side stand down but that wouldn't make the LCD screen go off after 3-5 seconds. Good Luck!

Offline Sixgun17

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2018, 06:13:00 AM »
I appreciate the guidance - I'll make sure my battery is really up to par.

One additional observation that I should have included in the previous note.  Normally when I would turn the key to the run position, I would hear/feel what I assume was the fuel pump pressuring up for a bit.  After that I'd hit the starter button and be on my way.  Now I don't hear that running.  Also, my gauges don't do the wake-up sweep.  It's almost as if the bike was performing a power-on self-test, not finding any fuel pressure, and deciding there was no point in proceeding.

Does that make any sense?

Offline Conrad

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2018, 07:27:08 AM »
After the bike has 'woken up' (ignition on) but you haven't attempted to start it, cycle the display (using the top button) to the battery voltage readout. It should show something over 12 volts. Now try to start it and see what the display reads.
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Offline jwh20

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2018, 08:01:57 AM »
I appreciate the guidance - I'll make sure my battery is really up to par.

One additional observation that I should have included in the previous note.  Normally when I would turn the key to the run position, I would hear/feel what I assume was the fuel pump pressuring up for a bit.  After that I'd hit the starter button and be on my way.  Now I don't hear that running.  Also, my gauges don't do the wake-up sweep.  It's almost as if the bike was performing a power-on self-test, not finding any fuel pressure, and deciding there was no point in proceeding.

Does that make any sense?

I'm leaning towards the bad connection or bad battery scenario.  The electronics have enough "juice" to read your KiPass FOB and unlock the keyswitch but once additional power demands are made by the gauges, fuel pump, etc. the poor connection causes the voltage to drop and everything then just shuts down.

Check your connections first.  Both battery terminals and both ground connections to the frame.  Check the battery.  You noted that the main fuse had popped.  What might have caused that?  This item concerns me and makes me wonder if you might have accidentally hooked the battery up backwards.

Offline maxtog

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2018, 03:22:09 PM »
I'm leaning towards the bad connection or bad battery scenario.  The electronics have enough "juice" to read your KiPass FOB and unlock the keyswitch but once additional power demands are made by the gauges, fuel pump, etc. the poor connection causes the voltage to drop and everything then just shuts down.

Yep.  That is my theory, too... kinda what I described in my last post.

Quote
You noted that the main fuse had popped.  What might have caused that?  This item concerns me and makes me wonder if you might have accidentally hooked the battery up backwards.

Yeah, that is concerning.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2018, 03:45:40 PM »
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :grouphug: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

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Offline MarsKlev

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2018, 12:49:05 PM »
did yu get her going?

Offline Sixgun17

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Re: New battery - no Kipass
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2018, 08:23:44 PM »
Ok, I can finally close out this story...happily!  Sorry for the long delay.

I threw in the towel and finally called up my local dealer.  They said,  "Sure we can come pick it up....on July 20th."  So the bike was sitting in my garage this whole time waiting for them to clear a spot in their shop calendar.  The whole time I'm royally irritated with myself for whatever I did to put pennies in its eyes.

Finally on Friday the 20th they came and picked her up.  Let the games begin!  I'm thinking that I've fried something and am not looking forward to this bill, but I want my ride back.

On Tuesday the 24th Nick calls from the shop - I'm braced for the news.  He says, "We've got your bike running.  Just a couple of loose wires - no biggie.  We made sure they had good contact, checked out your charging system, and you're good to go."  Music to my ears!

I guess somehow in my battery swapping I must have jacked up something in there.  I don't know what I did, and they weren't sure how I could have done it either.  I guess I'm just creative.  I didn't get to talk to the actual tech who worked on the bike when I picked it up, so I don't have specifics, unfortunately.  Honestly, I've just been so happy to have it back and running I never did follow-up with him.  They charged me $157.50 for 1.25 hours of shop time and the pick-up - no parts.  Considering what I was afraid it could be, I was a very happy child.

I finally got to put a little time on it this weekend and she's as happy as she always was.  I wish I had some new secret/magic problem-solving technique to pass along to the community in return for all the helpful suggestions I've received in this thread, but I'm happy just to have her be self-propelled again.

I'm very grateful to all you Connie veterans who were generous with your advice.  Many thanks!