Author Topic: HELP! Valve adjustment scare  (Read 3775 times)

Offline VodkaAndPickles

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HELP! Valve adjustment scare
« on: September 17, 2011, 04:31:53 PM »
I'm in the process of adjusting my valves right now, and was doing one of the #1 cylinder intake valves.   I loosened the locknut like the manual said, and did the adjustment.  Now, trying to tighten the locknut back in, the adjustment screw and locknut turn together, meaning it keeps going out of adjustment, and my torque wrench just keeps spinning, without increasing resistance as it gets tighter!  I had the wrench set to 18 ft-lbs, like the manual said.


Did I strip something, and if yes, wtf can I do now?!

Offline Sparkie

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment scare
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2011, 04:44:46 PM »
The nut is probably stripped. There's a similar thread going on the other site right now-same problem. !8 ft lbs is too much for that nut. I tighten mine to 160 in lb. That compares to 210 in lbs which is 18 ft lb. That nut is commonly stripped if you use the higher torque. A good feel by hand should work also. 18 ft lbs is ridiculuus. Mark

Offline VodkaAndPickles

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment scare
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2011, 04:47:11 PM »
Sh!t... Thanks.  Where can I get a replacement nut/screw?

Offline bradleym

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment scare
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2011, 05:08:16 PM »
I don't think the nut is anything special.  It's softer than the screws.  You can completely remove the screw and nut to examine them, and make sure what the issue is.  If it's just the nut, a decent hardware store should have a replacement.  The parts fiche says it's 7mm.

Or, maybe we are misunderstanding what you are saying.  If you use a torque wrench and socket, the screw can turn.  I tighten with a box end wrench while maintaining the gap with a screw driver on the screw. 

Offline VodkaAndPickles

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment scare
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2011, 05:21:54 PM »
Well I first tighten with a box end wrench while holding the screw with a screwdriver, yes.  Then, once the locknut is tight enough to hold itself and not move the screw, I go to the torque wrench to finish up the job.  When I did it before, the locknut turned independently of the screw when I used the torque wrench.  Now it doesn't, and the resistance on the torque wrench doesn't change.

Offline bradleym

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment scare
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2011, 05:33:40 PM »
I don't think it sounds like anything is stripped.  The rocker is supposed to have friction to keep the screws from turning easily, but it seems to the nut has more friction in this case.  If you can get it tight enough with a box end, I'd call it good enough.  When I do it, I keep a feeler gauge under both screws while tightening.  That seems to help the screw to not turn, and I always double check after tightening anyway.

Offline VodkaAndPickles

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment scare
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2011, 06:00:03 PM »
Update:

I removed both the screw and the locknut.  The upper part of the screw was stripped.  Somehow, the locknut was crossthreaded!!!  I don't know if it was my doing, or some previous owner's (this is only my 2nd valve adjustment on this bike, and I don't even remember if I had to touch this valve on the first one).  Pretty incredible, I can't imagine how it could have been cross-threaded in the first place.  The locknut moved relatively freely on the upper part of the screw, where the thread had already been stripped, but once it got to fresh thread, it wouldn't budge because it's crossthreaded.  That's why I could still turn the locknut with the torque wrench, but is the reason why it wouldn't actually go anywhere.  I couldn't torque it down.

I first realized something was wrong when I couldn't tighten the locknut without moving the screw out of adjustment.

I'll be ordering both the screw and locknut off of Bikebandit.


Thanks everybody for your help.

Offline Nosmo

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment scare
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2011, 06:04:48 PM »
Suggest order two or three, keep for spares.  Not that expensive.   I have two sets for that "just in case" time on Sunday afternoon when I just HAVE to get it back togther.
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Offline VodkaAndPickles

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment scare
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2011, 06:05:56 PM »
Good idea, I'll be doing that.  God, valve adjustments are such a PITA... Guess it's the train for me to go back to Baltimore on Monday.


I still can't figure out how the nut could have been cross-threaded in the first place though...

Offline WiConnie

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment scare
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2011, 06:14:57 PM »
God, valve adjustments are such a PITA..

Wait until you get to do shims UNDER bucket or the easier shim on top of bucket.....that my friend is a PITA! :)
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Offline VodkaAndPickles

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment scare
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2011, 06:18:37 PM »
Wait until you get to do shims UNDER bucket or the easier shim on top of bucket.....that my friend is a PITA! :)

 ;D I'll make sure that my next bike will be either a DR650 with idiot-proof valve adjustments or a Harley.

Offline SteveJ.

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment scare
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2011, 06:21:54 PM »
Update:

I removed both the screw and the locknut.  The upper part of the screw was stripped.  Somehow, the locknut was crossthreaded!!!  I don't know if it was my doing, or some previous owner's (this is only my 2nd valve adjustment on this bike, and I don't even remember if I had to touch this valve on the first one).  Pretty incredible, I can't imagine how it could have been cross-threaded in the first place.  The locknut moved relatively freely on the upper part of the screw, where the thread had already been stripped, but once it got to fresh thread, it wouldn't budge because it's crossthreaded.  That's why I could still turn the locknut with the torque wrench, but is the reason why it wouldn't actually go anywhere.  I couldn't torque it down.

I first realized something was wrong when I couldn't tighten the locknut without moving the screw out of adjustment.

I'll be ordering both the screw and locknut off of Bikebandit.


Thanks everybody for your help.
That's why it is helpful to note found measurements and "adjusted to" measuremennts in your maintenance log. You do have a maintenance log, right?

A record of found clearances will help you to gradually increase the interval in which you have to check valves. I'm up to about 15-20k miles now. And most valves are OK at that interval. 151k miles on the bike.
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Offline Two Skies

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment scare
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2011, 08:22:07 PM »
I have spares in my glove box.  Probably don't live anywhere near you, however.

Some torque wrenches, such as the one I bought at Autozone, are very innacurate.  I ended up stripping a valve adjust screw as well, and couldn't find a donor motor at the local bike boneyards, so I ended up going the bikebandit or whomever route.  Since then, I've taken everyone's advice here about gutenteit (good and tight, don't sweat the torque), which has worked rather well for two subequent valve adjusts.

Also, several here have commented that you can often stretch the valve adjust interval once you have several tens of thousands of miles on your bike, as they often don't drift out of adjustment as quickly once you have a well broken in motor.  If you pop the valve cover for you next valve adjust and find everything mostly in adjustment or just slightly off, that'll be a good indication that you may be able to stretch the next adjust.  I'll leave this to the resident experts to comment on though. 

For new owners, of course, you probably should pop the valve cover anyways as you won't truly know where things are gap wise until you look. 

BTW,  it has been recommended by quite a few Connie owners here to set your valves to the 'loose' end of the range, as the trend seems to be that they often tighten up between adjusts.  Plus the wider gap helps tighten up the intake and exhaust intervals slightly, which bumps the low end engine torque a slight bit.  Steve In Sunny Florida's extensive cam work has shown that, in stock form, the Connie's exhaust cam interval has a little room for improvement, especially at the low end.

I love the fact that with this bike doesn't use shims.  I'm sure those aren't too bad to work with, but I like the adjustable nut and stud method better.

One other thing.  I was having issues trying to match the nut with a new nut with proper threading.  I don't think the valve adjust studs use either 'common' metric thread spacing, but as I ended up ordering extra 'factory' nuts and studs anyways, for me this shouldn't be a problem for a bit.
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Offline T Cro ®

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Re: HELP! Valve adjustment scare
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2011, 09:23:51 PM »
One other thing.  I was having issues trying to match the nut with a new nut with proper threading.  I don't think the valve adjust studs use either 'common' metric thread spacing, but as I ended up ordering extra 'factory' nuts and studs anyways, for me this shouldn't be a problem for a bit.

The thread is a 7 mm by 1.0 pitch and it is very hard to find locally as it is an uncommon size; it is also a hardened thread and nothing less than a grade 10.9 should be used.

Go get yourself an Inch Pound Torque Wrench good up to no higher than about 250 Inch Pound and set it no higher than 180 Inch Pound for setting of the valve tappet lock nuts. The stock setting of 18 foot pounds/216 inch pounds is too much and will pull threads much too easy.

Do not use a large torque wrench set at a low setting as that just leads to disaster..... You should never use a torque wrench BELOW 20 % of its scale; trying to stay within the middle to upper end od scale will give the best in accuracy. YES I REALIZE THAT THIS MEANS THAT YOU MUST NOW PURCHASE SEVERAL WRENCHES !!!! But as a saving grace those cheap Horror Freight Torque Wrenches are actually fairly accurate.
Tony P. Crochet
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