NRA press Conference

[gPink]

Gun ownership is just one of those interests. Many people hunt, target shoot, feel they need the ability to self defend themselves or simply like to collect, build etc

And there are those of us who possess weapons because there are others who say we can't.

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

What lead to the Sandy Hook shooting started as a deterioration of a mentally ill individual influenced and surrounded by a desensitized, progressively violent culture perpetrated by Hollywood and the video game industry that sensationalizes killing and violence; he had access to weapons, and unhindered access to defenseless adults and children.

  Geez, not much more to say than that. +100! Steve

[Ron Dawg]

That does say it all.

[Nosmo]

I'm not an expert on anything.  I'm not even particularly bright as most of you can attest from my postings here. But I think I can see a trend in why we have such a high crime rate here in America.  In Washington State the policy seems to be, "Well, he's only killed a couple of dozen people so far, so let's let him back out into the community and see what happens."  For crying out loud, the tax payers of this state are paying for the room and board, food, and medical care for the Gary Ridgeway, Green River Killer, for the rest of his life.  I'd much rather pay for the hangman. 

Just the other day, we had a murder in Bellevue, and the suspect is one of the guys who beat up a man a few years ago, who subsequently died from his injuries.  The "Tube Man" was a great guy who used to play the tuba and entertain people on the street at games and other places, well-liked and a great memebr of our local "street community".  These young thugs, all juveniles, beat him up, for no reason other than they thought it was fun.  They all got wrist slaps and are now back in the populace committing more crimes.  Below is only a partial list of some of the things these "fine young men" have done while they have been out being allowed to "turn their lives around".  Fxxxing liberal jackasses that allow this to happen are much more to blame for crime than gun manufacturers.

This guy is suspected to have committed the following crimes:
Having a pistol at age 19
Having a pistol in a bar
Being in a bar under age 21
Shooting and killing a man

He will probably not be charged with anything other than the shooting and then likely only with 2nd degree manslaughter, instead of 1st degree murder which it should be.  IF convicted (unlikely, and we will probably only spend 8 or 10 million dollars to conduct a bogus trial) he'll go to the big house, spend a few years learning bigger and better ways to commit violent crimes, and be back on the streets, again with an illegal gun.  Welcome to liberal America, where every criminal is a good kid, just misunderstood, who is in the process of turning his life around.  Gimme a break.

And, the mayor of Seattle wants to pass an ordnance making it ILLEGAL for me to carry my LEGALLY CONCEALED pistol on city property, busses, parks, etc., which is exactly where these "fine young men" hang out.  Good thing I no longer live in that fine liberal city.

http://www.king5.com/news/crime/Police-identify-suspect-in-Bellevue-fatal-shooting-184723491.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_McMichael
http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=159577
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Tuba-Man-Killer-Arrested-Again-114174119.html
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Tuba-Man-killer-charged-again-is-alleged-gang-3387010.php
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Tuba-Man-killer-now-facing-federal-gun-4100090.php

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

  but let me say this - and hold me to it - man will always find a way to adapt and overcome. IF you could take all the guns magically from america, I am sure some whackjob will take an SUV, crash a gate and run over  bunch of kids hopping off buses at school If the voices in his head tell him to. So then we'll need more laws, and let's take your SUV away...even though the worst thing you ever did with your SUV was transport your kids to chuckey cheese with it... Steve

  Maybe kinda weird to quote myself, but I posted this 2 days ago. Here's a story in todays news of a guy in china running a car with a gas cannister and firecrackers into schoolkids in china. No guns there, as they're subjects, but man will adapt and overcome...http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2012/12/chinese-man-rams-car-into-students.html  Steve

[Leo]

The Irish had a generation long feud where they killed lots of people and destroyed lots of property.  Hardly any guns were used.   Bombs, fires, booby traps, and beatings.  If you want wide spread damage, about $30 worth of biology chemistry can poison an entire towns water system.  Lots of ways for evil to cause damage.   It is not limited to the little M16 look alike.

[twowheeladdict]

  Maybe kinda weird to quote myself, but I posted this 2 days ago. Here's a story in todays news of a guy in china running a car with a gas cannister and firecrackers into schoolkids in china. No guns there, as they're subjects, but man will adapt and overcome...http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2012/12/chinese-man-rams-car-into-students.html  Steve

I would back a ban on all four wheeled transportation. 

[Bart]

It is interesting to read that some feel or a least imply that the homicide and mass murder rate in America would remain the same without guns because other methods would be used like using an SUV or bombs or??? If we are to believe that when it doesn't hold true for the rest of the 1st world, then are we to believe that America is inherently more evil than other countries in the 1st world?

Also, jail sentences in Canada are generally shorter than in America. There is no death penalty and murders in Canada are served concurrently and a life sentence carries has parole eligibility after 25 years. Most of the 1st world has softer sentences than America. There is also a lot of immigration in those countries. I think most of the American mass murderers were born here. We are all from immigrant stock, So it doesn't appear to be about immigrants or jail, so why do we have this problem?

[Son of Pappy]

It is interesting to read that some feel or a least imply that the homicide and mass murder rate in America would remain the same without guns because other methods would be used like using an SUV or bombs or??? If we are to believe that when it doesn't hold true for the rest of the 1st world, then are we to believe that America is inherently more evil than other countries in the 1st world?

Also, jail sentences in Canada are generally shorter than in America. There is no death penalty and murders in Canada are served concurrently and a life sentence carries has parole eligibility after 25 years. Most of the 1st world has softer sentences than America. There is also a lot of immigration in those countries. I think most of the American mass murderers were born here. We are all from immigrant stock, So it doesn't appear to be about immigrants or jail, so why do we have this problem?

Again, why the separation of worlds?  The issue is NOT guns.  The issue is society and the continued dumb down of the bill of rights and bastardisation of the COTUS .  Want continual violence?  Drive the roads around 2 in the morning on the 1st of January.  Go visit Egypt or one of your less valued 3rd world countries you hold in low regard.  FWIW, at one time we would have been labeled as a third world country, what changed that?  Simple answer and it would solve so many of the problems being discussed.  Let's get back to old school liberalism, stop stripping us of our rights.  And realize new laws will be ignored at the same rate the old laws are.  How many laws were violated in Sandy Hook?  How effect five did they turnout to be?
Gotta
Throw this in for a perfect example.  Ted Kennedy's car killed more peoplè than my guns have.  Super Storm Sandy killed more people than the murderer killed in Sandy Hook.  Life is measured, there is no established time for a life, society plays a bigger role in the when we die and how we die than many are wiling to admit.  Time is precious.  Live it like  tomorrow is a possibility that may not come.  Stop worrying about others and focus on the life you want and what legacy you leave behind.  Guns are not the proplem.  Society is.......

[twowheeladdict]

It is interesting to read that some feel or a least imply that the homicide and mass murder rate in America would remain the same without guns because other methods would be used like using an SUV or bombs or??? If we are to believe that when it doesn't hold true for the rest of the 1st world, then are we to believe that America is inherently more evil than other countries in the 1st world?

Also, jail sentences in Canada are generally shorter than in America. There is no death penalty and murders in Canada are served concurrently and a life sentence carries has parole eligibility after 25 years. Most of the 1st world has softer sentences than America. There is also a lot of immigration in those countries. I think most of the American mass murderers were born here. We are all from immigrant stock, So it doesn't appear to be about immigrants or jail, so why do we have this problem?

We have this problem because of a shift in morals in our country.  If we were somehow successful in taking away all the guns in the US, and successful in keeping guns out of the US, we still have not changed the society that is here.  The psychos will find another way to vent their frustrations with the life they are living.  They will turn to all the other ways to kill multiple people as found in their movies, video games, and the internet.  For one to question why we are different than the other 1st world countries, one would have to study all the differences, not just whether guns are available.  How are children being raised.  What foods are the people eating. What is the work ethic in school and on the job.  How much leisure time do people have.  and many many more factors that influence society. 

[Ron Dawg]

Probably more insightful thinking going on here than in Congress about the same problem.

[tjpgi]

It is interesting to read that some feel or a least imply that the homicide and mass murder rate in America would remain the same without guns because other methods would be used like using an SUV or bombs or??? If we are to believe that when it doesn't hold true for the rest of the 1st world, then are we to believe that America is inherently more evil than other countries in the 1st world?

Comparing a country with a population of 35,000,000 like Canada to the US is like comparing apples to oranges. Look at the per capita murder rate around the world ( regardless of 1st, 2nd etc. classification) and you will see that there are many countries with highly restrictive gun ownership laws that have murder rates that dwarf the murder rate in the US;Colombia as an ex.).

http://chartsbin.com/view/1454

In Colombia, civilians are not allowed to possess pistols and revolvers of calibre superior to 9.652mm, automatic arms, semi-automatic rifles and carbines over 22 caliber LR, arms with military-style devices (infrared and laser sights, grenade launchers and silencers) and ammunition for these arms2

I think your assumption about 1st order countries with different murder rates graphically illustrates that there are sociological factors more complex than simple gun ownership that are resulting in unacceptable murder rates. It is however a "feel good move to simply ban guns for some and feel that something has been accomplished without looking at unintended consequences ( I am not saying you). A liberal newspaper in New York has now published the names of those folks that posses guns legally to shame them, as if owning a gun in this country is a reason for shame. This newspaper should be condemned for placing those folks on both sides of the fence in danger.

Our legislators need to be deep thinkers and not knee jerk philosophers but of course they will not be. During any crisis in this country of late the law abiding citizen loses rights because of the actions of the criminal element and the mentally ill.

I think you are attempting to solve a complex societal problem with a simplistic solution. When our society begins to condemn violence ( Hollywood types are the most hypocritical... you know artistic license), truly practice tolerance of different opinions
(conservative, traditional values), incarcerate violent criminals away from society for good ( recent ex con killing firemen), properly take care of the mentally ill, we will then be on the proper path to lower the murder rate in the US. The liberals and their supporters have condemned the NRA as if this organization pulls the trigger in every gun involved crime. If they ( the liberals) want to blame someone they might as well blame the Chinese for inventing gun powder, the originators of gun technology, and the Founding Fathers.

[Pokey]

Mob mentality, mob justice.

[Son of Pappy]

What side of the divide are these killers generally coming from?  I think it is important to ask as I believe a large part of what they do is for fame and a sense of furthering some cause.  As Brian said, mob mentality.  No mob you say?  Take a closer look, the mob is there.  Facts and logic are lost and replaced with pure emotion, driven by the masses in a rush of mob justice.

[Nosmo]

The weakening of the family group, mainly broken homes, the lack of good father figures, women who feel empowered and entitled to make babies as trophies or pets.

http://people.howstuffworks.com/serial-killer2.htm
http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2010/02/16/the-dangers-of-fatherlessness/
http://www.helium.com/items/615755-a-psychological-look-into-serial-killers
http://www.drtomoconnor.com/4050/4050lect04.htm
http://www.mensdefense.org/STM_Book/FatherDeprivation.htm
http://www.ukessays.com/essays/psychology/serial-killers-born.php

[Bart]

Actually I think you can compare Canada to America. Basically the same beginnings with the same moral values, laws and constitution (although without the right to bare arms clause). Canadians watch the same TV shows, movies and play the same video games and a has large immigrant population. I doubt you could find 2 countries as similar. Canada seems to focus on peace keeping although a lot of Canadians are being killed in Afghanistan and Canada had the largest volunteer (per capita) military during WW2 and was in Korea. So violence is not foreign to Canada but the murder rate is only approximately 1/5 of America.

Could it be that American society has gone downhill but Canada has not or at least not as fast? Or maybe it is just to easy to pick up a gun. I want to believe in the goodness of the American people.

[Nosmo]

Canada and the U.S. of America are quite different.  I live on the Olympic Peninsula of Washington State, and go to Canada (mainly Vancouver Island) quite often.  I particularly like to take the M.V Coho ferry to Victoria.  I always sense a change in attitude when I cross the border.  The people are generally more polite, not quite as pushy, sort of more laid-back.  It isn't a huge difference, subtle but it is there.  I can usually spot other Americans by their generally slovenly demeanor, baggy sweat pants, dirty T-shirts, loudness when speaking, ill-behaved children, etc.  When I talk to the natives it is generally a conversation about something with meaning and communication, instead of the usual home-town "Yo, dude, man, 'bout them Seahawks, nome sayin'?" I'm not trying to knock my fellow countrymen, but when in Canada, I can see the difference, and yes, I know that there are many exceptions to the rule.  I go there because I like visiting there.  I don't worry about being without a firearm in Canada, for some reason.  I don't know why.  But when I get back in the U.S., I always feel naked (until I'm not).
But Canada is not without it's own problems.  Remember the mass-murderer pig-farmer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pickton

[tjpgi]

Bart

What you say is true however I think a major disparity is the size of our population and all of the challenges that come with such a large population. We have a significant crime problem in our major cities because of a variety of problems drugs, breakdown of the family unit glorification of street violence,gangs, drugs and their criminalization, racial divide etc. I think that a significant portion of the per capita murder rate in this country is skewed by the overwhelming violence that exists in our large cities. Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland to mention a few. Our top 15 city populations actually total more than the entire population of Canada. Our third largest city, Chicago will top 500 murders this year alone. There were 598 murders in Canada in 2011.

The entire statistical data for any subject is skewed when you have concentrations of data ( say murders) affecting such a large country. I would bet if you excluded the murder rate of our top 20 cities, the per capita murder rate would be similar between the US and Canada.

Gun ownership by percent of population is similar for about 40 of the 50 states (http://usliberals.about.com/od/Election2012Factors/a/Gun-Owners-As-Percentage-Of-Each-States-Population.htm). Wyoming has the highest rate of 59.7% and Hawaii with the lowest 6.7%. There were 18 murders in Wyoming in 2011 out of a population of around 568,000.

So back to my original statement, I do not think comparing a country of 35,000,000 to a country of over 300,000,000 and drawing a simple conclusion is descriptive of the problems surrounding violence.

[Bart]

I agree that "simple" conclusions cannot be drawn between Canada and America but it would not be unreasonable to compare them. After all there are large cities in Canada: Metro areas: Toronto 5,500,000, Montreal 3,750,000, Vancouver (said to be the drug capitol) 2,400,000 and yet with significantly lower murder rates. The population in Canada does not generally feel the need for weapons for personal protection.

There has been a few mass murders in Canada but they are few and far between. It would not be fair to point to a few Canadian crimes and say "see they are no better". You have to look at the overall stats.

What makes a person living to Seattle different from one living in Vancouver or Detroit and Toronto?

[gPink]

Isn't Canada where wimps, pussies, and traitors go when they flee the US?