More ECU/exhaust/dyno & warranty questions

[ZXShan, 2015 C14 ABS]

I have read a lot of threads regarding exhaust upgrades, ECU flashing etc. but I have not found any that answer my specific questions but if they are out there and I have missed them I apologize up front for repeating the question(s). So, a lot of people are saying good things about getting their ECU flashed and how it makes the bike feel smoother, some better mileage etc. but has anyone put the flashed ECU back in the bike and then put it on a Dyno with a sniffer to see how everything is (rich or lean etc.)? Has anyone upgraded the air filter to a K&N or the like along with the ECU flash and then and put in on a Dyno with a sniffer? My concern here is two fold. 1. Power Commander does not make a unit as of yet for the 2015 model year bike per two sales reps and an email from technical support due to them still trying to fix complications that came up after Kawasaki updated the ECU for 2015. 2. I have prepaid service for 3 years on my bike and the dealer told me that if I have my ECU flashed and anything goes wrong that can be linked to the ECU it will void my 3 warranty and service plan but if I had a PCV it would not void anything because that is just "piggy backing" on the main ECU (strange rationale but that is what they said). I am very picky about how my bikes run and I want it to be fueling at the optimum rate with a slip-on exhaust and upgraded air filter. I know that between the O2 sensor and the ECU it will account for moderate elevation changes but when changing the exhaust and filter you are introducing a lot more into the system as well as freeing up a lot of back pressure. Any thoughts are appreciated!

[gPink]

I think you'll find that the two main ecu flashs available were developed with extensive dyno time.

[ZXShan, 2015 C14 ABS]

I'll do some more searching. Thank you!

[gPink]

This man has been a part of the Concours community for many years and is widely respected for his knowledge and skill.
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/concours1400

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20462.0

[maxtog]

You pose a good question about the 2015/2016 model.  I don't believe it will matter if it is a 2010-2014 or 2015-2016 with an ECU flash, but I don't know for sure and would not be the right person to answer that question.

Changing the air filter or the muffler will do essentially nothing to affect reflashing or PC [performance].  This isn't the 50's/60's/70's/80's.... the Concours' muffler and 2-way cats are not much restriction.  I don't believe the stock air filter offers much resistance either.  If you are keeping the stock intake headers, exhaust headers, and stock piping, those will be your set restriction points (along with perhaps the throttle bodies... they are slightly larger on the ZX11).

They might have recourse against you if tampering with the equipment does cause problems or failures, but generally they have to PROVE that it caused the problem. Reflashing just updates some tables, it doesn't do anything else that would affect other systems.  "Piggybacking" with a PC does essentially the same thing- it doesn't modify the tables, but it modifies the outputs (and/or inputs).  It is no less or more "safe" (although is some ways, it is less reliable, since there are physical connections and extra components to fail).

There is no O2 sensor on the USA model, unless something changed that I am not aware of...

[VirginiaJim]

I think that they added O2 sensors to the 15's and on...

[gPink]

Yep. And I think Steve has a workaround in his flash.

[ZXShan, 2015 C14 ABS]

Thanks for the input! The 2015 does have a sensor which you can see if you look between the bottom of the radiator and the top of the head pipes after they bend under the engine.

[maxtog]

I think that they added O2 sensors to the 15's and on...

Did I totally miss this in previous threads?  Yeesh.  OK, so did they just use the same system that HAS been in use for the rest of the world (non-north-american)?

[gPink]

Next thing you know they'll be trying to switch us to the metric system.

[Deziner]

Being the only country that put a man on the moon, the rest of the world should switch to OUR units of measure. Of course that's for those of you who believe we actually did go to the moon, not a studio in Nevada desert....

[C14lvr]

I've been following Steve's flash closely since the beginning.
Here's what I hear...

No one has completed more thorough or extensive professional dyno testing for a flash than he has.

He's currently working on a flash for folks using after market exhausts.

He is aware of the newer bikes and the O2 sensors.

He has addressed the questions about voiding the warranty possibility numerous times.

Anyone who has their ECU flashed, can reflash it back to stock. But, no one who does it wants to!

From what I understand, if you have yours flashed, and it goes into the shop, if you don't tell them it's been flashed, they won't be able to tell.

And... one more point... for those that have the 2010+ models with ECO switched mode, he leaves that map alone. One way to tell if a flash has affected the bike negatively would be to switch over to the ECO map. If it then runs right, it could be an example of a flash problem. If it makes no change, a flash is not the issue.

The C14 is mapped pretty rich stock. The reason folks are reporting fuel economy increases after the flash is because of more accurate fueling, across the rpm board.

I plan to have it done to my 2011 as soon as I have the extra cash... but gotta survive 4/15 right now.

[Daytona_Mike]

I assume you are speaking of Steve's Shoodabeens SISF  ECU flash correct?

Question: has anyone put the flashed ECU back in the bike and then put it on a Dyno with a sniffer to see how everything is (rich or lean
Answer: Of course. Extensive sniffing has been done on and off the dyno. More importantly a wide band O2 sensor (sniffer) has and is being used on and off the dyno in all aspects of real world riding to be sure there are no rich and to be very sure: absolutely no overly lean conditions anywhere and  anytime.

Question: Has anyone upgraded the air filter to a K&N or the like along with the ECU flash and then and put in on a Dyno with a sniffer
Answer : Yes including K&N and BMC and  with cats and without cats and with slipon exhausts and with completely stock exhausts. And Full AreaP systems

You do not want or need a Power Commander with the flash. I took my Power Commander V  off when I got mine flashed.
 2015/2016 models have already been flashed with no issues and you get  all the benefits of which there are many.
 Your 2015 ecu has not been updated. It has the optional 02 sensors turned on which have been  enabled for years and years  on the European models and those have already been flashed with no issues.

The dealer cannot tell if your bike is flashed and it will not void any warranty or pre-paid services. I still have the factory warranty on mine and my Kawasaki dealer even  knows about it and they have  no issues with it.

You have absolutely not one thing to worry about when getting the flash done. Follow the directions and get it done you will love it.

Any more questions??  Who ever is telling you  that piggy backing  with  PCV wont void the warranty vs the flash voiding the warranty has no clue what they are talking about. Stop listening to them or they.  We have done both and we  know what is better for your bike.

By the way, please tell us more about your 3 year Service Plan. Where or what dealer is this?   How much and does it include Valve Adjustments and if so  how many Valve Adjustments are you allowed? What else does it include? Oil changes?  Unlimited mileage?

[maxtog]

From what I understand, if you have yours flashed, and it goes into the shop, if you don't tell them it's been flashed, they won't be able to tell.

My understanding is that the dealers don't have tools to read the contents of the maps, so they can't tell what is in them.  I would not recommend ever telling a dealer or any shop that you had an ECU reflashed.  It is none of their business, it won't be the source of any problem, and some will use any excuse to support whatever hair-brained idea that suits their cause.

And... one more point... for those that have the 2010+ models with ECO [FEAM] switched mode, he leaves that map alone. One way to tell if a flash has affected the bike negatively would be to switch over to the ECO map. If it then runs right, it could be an example of a flash problem. If it makes no change, a flash is not the issue.

Cool, that addresses the other thread about using FEAM

The C14 is mapped pretty rich stock. The reason folks are reporting fuel economy increases after the flash is because of more accurate fueling, across the rpm board.

That was also my assumption.  And I also assumed Kawasaki does this as a safety margin because it is safer to run rich than to run lean.

[ZXShan, 2015 C14 ABS]

Thank you for all of the input everyone! To address Daytona Mike's questions:

"Any more questions??  Who ever is telling you  that piggy backing  with  PCV wont void the warranty vs the flash voiding the warranty has no clue what they are talking about. Stop listening to them or they.  We have done both and we  know what is better for your bike." Mike, the dealership is the one telling me about voiding the warranty if anything can be linked back to a "flashed" ECU.

"By the way, please tell us more about your 3 year Service Plan. Where or what dealer is this?   How much and does it include Valve Adjustments and if so  how many Valve Adjustments are you allowed? What else does it include? Oil changes?  Unlimited mileage?" Mike, I have the standard 3 year warranty from Kawasaki and a 3 year service plan that includes the first 3 years of recommended service (6 services) per the kawasaki maintenance schedule. I believe the first major valve adjustment is on service 5 or 6 but I would have to check on that to be sure. The service plan includes all oil, filters, labor etc. etc. The agreement that I worked out with the dealer is that they come and pick my bike up and drop it off for me as well. They do this for me because I live on the other side of the valley from where they are located. I got the bike (2015 model year) for $11,535.00 ( 2 miles on the ODO when I took delivery of it) and the service plan for $1400 and bought the bike on 01/31/2016 (Sunday). It did take forever at the dealer because they had not even "prepped" the bike when it came in. They just pushed it out on the floor basically. The dealership is "RideNow" Powersports.

**So I think I will be contacting Steve and getting my flash done along with an Area P slip on! Thanks again everyone.

[Daytona_Mike]

RideNow is a large and good dealer. I have done track days with them before.  I am glad you got that service it sounds great.
Congratulations on your new bike and welcome to the forum.
  Steve did a lot of work getting a great and  refined fuel maps for the AreaP slip on so your going to  enjoy it.

[Throttle 8]

**So I think I will be contacting Steve and getting my flash done along with an Area P slip on! Thanks again everyone.

I did exactly this. You won't be disappointed. The Area P sounds awesome, and the flash will make the bike into an even faster sleeper! You should see the looks I get from some big bore cruiser riding buddies when I pull onto a main road from a side road and "give it the beans" with the traction control off and loft the front wheel in 2 gears! lol!

[maxtog]

ou should see the looks I get from some big bore cruiser riding buddies when I pull onto a main road from a side road and "give it the beans" with the traction control off and loft the front wheel in 2 gears! lol!

Eh, those "big bore cruisers" really don't know what fast is- straight or cornering.  Most cars can be thrown into that category too (and it is SO laughable when some ricer revs their fart-pipe, tinted, no-suspension Civic).  It is far more impressive when some hyper-sport liter bike gets wowed that a 650+ pound bike like the Concours can really move when desired.  It is not a racer, but it can be plenty damn fast.  Certainly fast enough for me

[PlaynInPeoria]

I toasted some HD folk last night.  Around here, we call that "roasting pork".  Tastes great!

[ZXShan, 2015 C14 ABS]

Most of those Harley's are low and slow which is probably why they taste so good when roasted!