Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: stlhrsrdr on May 15, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
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Replaced the battery in my '08 about 3-4 weeks ago , took a short ride and washed it . So I have a buyer show up yesterday , bike will not start ! Ignition unlocks , gauges cycle , but no fuel pump prime . Raised the tank , removed an air box cover , and shot starting fluid in it and will not hit ! I'm assuming the ignition and fuel systems both are disabled .
Immobilizer error and F1
Bike down switch will cause this , checked it , output voltage was 4.97 vdc .
Can not get codes to show by holding both buttons on the display down for 2 seconds or more .
If I change the computer , will it have to be synced to existing fobs ?
Lost and have it sold !
Thanks for any help .
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you have done every possible "don't do this" thing in an attempt to fire the bike up...
this is also the wrong place, to get help, it should be posted in the correct thread, up top, dealing specifically with the C14... I'll prod the mods to move it...
this is not an FAQ issue, so it should go to the place people will answer you...
here....
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?board=2.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?board=2.0)
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At this point I wouldn't be thinking about changing any computer. Based on what you are saying I would re-check the battery connections and make sure that the battery is fully charged. So you are saying the bike will crank? I'd also change the battery in the fob, but I don't think that's it. A main fuse blown could cause issues but I don't think it would crank.
Thanks, T.
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Battery connections are fine , battery fully charged , new batteries in both fobs . Main fuse (30 amp ) , behind the battery is good , as are every fuse in all 3 fuse boxes . Bike cranks just as if it is going to start , but fuel pump doesn't prime and bike will not hit off of starting fluid sprayed directly into the air box . The actuator for the secondary flies is " buzzing " , like it doesn't have a good connection or ground . Haven't tore down far enough to get to it yet . Fuel injection module clicks once when key is turned on , as I would think it should .
I'm beyond puzzled , and know it can't be much . Just rode it 2 weeks ago .
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If you have cranking and a spark then look at why the fuel pump is not pressurising.
Once you have fuel pressure should start if not
Look at crank and cam sensors
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So you've turned the switch to on and pressed both buttons for two seconds and get no codes?
Also, you should never have to spray starting fluid into a fuel injected bike, but if I did I would spray into the front intakes under the headlights rather than taking the bike apart to go into the airbox.
This really smells like a battery issue. How do you know the battery is good? I've been doing some web searching and this really looks like battery/connections. Do you have another battery you can try?
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like it doesn't have a good connection or ground
I think you have nailed the root problem right here. I'll bet it's the (-) battery lead terminal where it connects to the frame. Remove the bolt, use a bit of sandpaper or emery cloth and abrade the Aluminum Oxide on the connection point, smear a tiny bit of grease on it to inhibit further corrosion, reinstall the lead, and then try it again.
This is a relatively common problem and it's easy to fix.
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I think you have nailed the root problem right here. I'll bet it's the (-) battery lead terminal where it connects to the frame. Remove the bolt, use a bit of sandpaper or emery cloth and abrade the Aluminum Oxide on the connection point, smear a tiny bit of grease on it to inhibit further corrosion, reinstall the lead, and then try it again.
This is a relatively common problem and it's easy to fix.
that's a good start...
I always recommend this first.
but the issue of spraying starting fluid into the airbox thing has me a bit concerned..... I'm thinking some sensors just got wasted....
edit to add.....
I have a really bad habit of going back and looking at posts made by people with issues, just to see what they have done to their bike in the past, and problems they have had....
so, did you install ZX14 throttle bodies on this bike????
just asking.....
has this bike been altered in any other way? different mapping? airfilter? header? what else was done?
just had to ask, because daily we try to assist, without people saying just how much stuff they messed with already...
spraying stuff in the airbox is bad, also....
I used to get at least 3 emails a month when I was tech editor, stating the following:
" my bike was running fine up untill last week, I washed it, now it won't start/run, what is wrong with it...???"
all I could do at that point is ask, "what color is it?"
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that's a good start...
I always recommend this first.
but the issue of spraying starting fluid into the airbox thing has me a bit concerned..... I'm thinking some sensors just got wasted....
Starting fluid should never be needed with an FI engine like the C14's. The TBs are spraying fuel vapor (or should be) no matter what. I've noticed that EFI vehicles (cars and bikes) will often crank with a bad battery or a poor connection but the electronics, which are needed to activate the fuel-injectors and fire the spark plugs, are very sensitive to low voltages or goofy transients caused by bad grounding.
Granted, there could be a problem with the ECU or the sensors or just about anything else, but it's always best to eliminate the simple stuff before getting to the complex and expensive bits. I've seen too many strange issues caused by bad grounding on both the C14 and the ZX-14 which share a similar design for the frame ground point.
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Battery and connections, 9 out of 10 times, that's the issue. And just because you just bought a new battery doesn't make it good.
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K/N filter , area P full exhaust , flies removed , PCIII , map from fuel Moto .
Starting fluid was used as a diagnostic tool , to confirm no spark . Sprayed into the opening below headlight first . No visible corrosion on either of the 2 grounds connected to the frame near the battery , 1 goes to the battery and the other goes to the engine .
Battery shows 12.83 vdc using my Fluke multimeter . BUT , gauge cluster only shows 9-10.4 vdc .
I have a Kawasaki service manual . I am going to remove grounds again this evening , and scuff both cable ends and where the cables contact the frame
Going to talk with dealer tomorrow , hopefully they will have a simple answer .
Thanks for all responses
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K/N filter , area P full exhaust , flies removed , PCIII , map from fuel Moto .
Starting fluid was used as a diagnostic tool , to confirm no spark . Sprayed into the opening below headlight first . No visible corrosion on either of the 2 grounds connected to the frame near the battery , 1 goes to the battery and the other goes to the engine .
Battery shows 12.83 vdc using my Fluke multimeter . BUT , gauge cluster only shows 9-10.4 vdc .
I have a Kawasaki service manual . I am going to remove grounds again this evening , and scuff both cable ends and where the cables contact the frame
Going to talk with dealer tomorrow , hopefully they will have a simple answer .
Thanks for all responses
Looks can be deceiving. Also once ground connections are physically cleaned take the Power Commander out of the loop and recheck.
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Battery shows 12.83 vdc using my Fluke multimeter . BUT , gauge cluster only shows 9-10.4 vdc .
That, alone, is troubling. And I assume that is while the engine is not turning (thus, there is no alternator). Measuring the battery with no load usually tells you very little, if it is near the 13V mark... but if it is NOT, that could mean a bad battery (or just not fully charged).
The C14 is extremely sensitive to bad grounds, low voltages, poor condition batteries, and poor battery connections. If we had a dollar for every time this was the cause of a mysterious problem, we would be rich :) Even happened on my own Concours. So that is why everyone is animate about checking ALL the battery and ground terminals and connections and making sure they are all corrosion-free and tight.
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The only true way to test battery condition is to give it a discharge test, voltage across the terminals tells us very little.
Also FI systems require pressure to work so repeat check why fuel pump is not working when ingnition first switched on.
Earthing problems could well lay at the root of your troubles
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K/N filter , area P full exhaust , flies removed , PCIII , map from fuel Moto .
Starting fluid was used as a diagnostic tool , to confirm no spark . Sprayed into the opening below headlight first . No visible corrosion on either of the 2 grounds connected to the frame near the battery , 1 goes to the battery and the other goes to the engine .
1) Disconnect the PCIII, better yet, uninstall it and get a SISF flash. Works better and is much more reliable!
2) Aluminum Oxide looks just like Aluminum. You cannot see corrosion on Aluminum. If it's been exposed to air, it has a layer of corrosion on it.
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Removed both ground cables , near the battery , and sanded them and frame with 150 grit Emory , no change .
What exactly is " Imobilizer error " ? Security ?
No fuel pump prime , secondary fly actuator making noise like a bad connection . AND taillight has a dim glow , once key is OFF . Unplugged taillight , no change .
There should be more ground connections than these 2 , I would think . Haven't had time to study wiring schematic any tonight . Going to talk with the dealer tomorrow , and back to scratching my head tomorrow afternoon .
Thanks for all the help and ideas !
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I'm still thinking you should try another battery if you can. There have been cases where I think connectors meet in a bunch, have gone bad. Not sure if this is the case with yours. Someone should be able to check that battery. That's a pretty big voltage drop. Again, I think it could be the battery. Some good tips here. I wish you luck on this.
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Please keep us all in the loop on this one as its really intriguing. Best of luck at the dealers.
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K/N filter , area P full exhaust , flies removed , PCIII , map from fuel Moto .
Starting fluid was used as a diagnostic tool , to confirm no spark . Sprayed into the opening below headlight first . No visible corrosion on either of the 2 grounds connected to the frame near the battery , 1 goes to the battery and the other goes to the engine .
Battery shows 12.83 vdc using my Fluke multimeter . BUT , gauge cluster only shows 9-10.4 vdc .
I have a Kawasaki service manual . I am going to remove grounds again this evening , and scuff both cable ends and where the cables contact the frame
Going to talk with dealer tomorrow , hopefully they will have a simple answer .
Thanks for all responses
this is getting very painful to watch.
how does spraying starter fluid into the front intakes, or airbox verify spark? especially when the butterfly's are closed....?
nope... bad test.
as for volts on display.... while cranking does it drop? or wasn't that tried?
you don't have enough volts to actuate the fuel pump correctly, and also the fluttering buzzing on the throttle sensor/actuator is a sign of low volts... there is missing/low volts to ECU feedback to stabilize it.
Immobilizer warning is a sign of low volts, and F! errors also are driven by volts... it needs correct volts to do anything, so the connections you say are fine, on the battery itself, are still suspect.. till you actually abrasively clean them... we cant say why you dont have volts....
also, if you cannot invoke the actual error codes present, by pressing both buttons for over 2 seconds with the ignition switch on.... you probably still don't have volts... everything related to analysis requires correct voltage thru the bikes electronics
Until you can invoke the error codes, there is not much that can be done here by us, to help... and when you do get correct volts, and can invoke the code readouts, there will likely be about a half dozen of them showing... we just did this last week on the COG forum with another forum member,who recently installed a NEW battery... and went thru this whole thing.. exactly... but they hadn't done any parts mods. The errors that showed up in the codes would have made you think every major system on the bike was shot...
this is what popped up on his...
23 - Camshaft position sensor (EX) malfunction, wiring open or short
24 - Speed sensor malfunction
26 - Camshaft position sensor (IN) malfunction, wiring open or short
59 - Valve timing abnormal
64 - Air switching valve malfunction, wiring open or short
all were induced by low volts to system... and all, including F1 cleared themselves once battery corrected, and a short ride to allow system to re-read systems and reset.
while you are at it, have the battery load tested... I don't care what your volt meter is saying, or what brand it is, NEW batteries can be failed batteries and your voltage readings lead to suspect this.
as you did finally reveal some of the changes made, after the fact, like the PCIII, flies removed, and other stuff, which we really needed to know right off...
I'll ask again....
did you install ZX14 throttle bodies on this bike???????
I can't see how "talking" to the dealer will give you anything, and likely even if the bike was taken there, a tech will probably be a clueless as the dealer himself...
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Stlhrsrdr I am located in Newburgh NY if your somewhere close I would be happy to give you a hand.
Fred
Wa2gzw
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I'm I'm Kentucky , thanks for the offer !
Stock throttle bodies , with flies removed .
Cables at the battery , and at the frame connection , terminals , and contact points on the frame have all been sanded using 150 grit Emory cloth .
The volt gauge on the dash stays the same while cranking , but a few times it has went UP after cranking stops , 9.7-9.8 .
I feel a bad ground is legit , just no idea where .
Dealer had no answers , and uses the same manual that I have .
Didn't fool with it tonight . Ordered a set of needle adapters for the volt meter for more testing . May be the weekend before I can get back to it . .
Something really simple , and I may simply be overlooking it .
I really appreciate all advice , Thanks
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Yes, probably simple. Try a new battery. I know you have a new one. Try another one. The battery on my RC51 died 350 miles from home in Washington DC. The battery for it runs $170. I got a slightly reduced price of around $150 from a dealer, installed it in the parking lot, and it didn't work. They had to give me another one. It happens, more often on newer bikes with more electronics like the C14. The RC also required a strong battery.
Try a new battery and either ride off happily or discount it as the issue. If not, continue to beat your head against the wall until finally discovering it is the battery.
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Honestly, given the info and history of pc3's, I would do as was previously offered, pull the pc3 out of the loop and give it another try. Steve
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Honestly, given the info and history of pc3's, I would do as was previously offered, pull the pc3 out of the loop and give it another try. Steve
I thought he already did that. I guess not. Yes, definitely remove the pc3 to discount that as the problem. Oh, then try a new battery.
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When in doubt....change a battery.
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...... , secondary fly actuator making noise like a bad connection . AND taillight has a dim glow , once key is OFF . Unplugged taillight , no change .
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Thanks for all the help and ideas !
so tail light is glowing with bike turned off.... currently?
splain...
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another mouse issue?
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another mouse issue?
could be.... I know just how much they like to chew those wires, for sure... but if the connector was disconnected, and the lights glowed.... then id say they weren't disconnected....
but then, people do weird things.
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As do mice...
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Kirby comes to mind... :)
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So I took battery and had it load tested . First off , guys at parts house acted as if it were a burden to test it . Initially it showed that it needed charged and retested . So they exchange it . The exchange battery showed the same thing on their tester , a hand held unit . They get a second replacement , it test good . Then we retest the original battery and first exchange , but on a battery charger/tester sitting on a cabinet in front of the counter . This time both previous batteries show good .
So I take the last exchange battery with me , take it back to work with me , and place it on a 1.25amp battery tender . Initially it showed at less 80% charge , according to the indicator lights on the charger . By the end of my shift , battery tender indicating fully charged . So now I should have a 100% battery to take home and try again .
I did notice that the ground cable terminal , that attaches to the frame , is cracked . For how long , I do not know . Remove it , go to Napa , come home and replace . Crimped and soldered , and sanded .
Hook up the replacement battery , that should be 100% charged .
Fingers crossed , NOTHING DIFFERENT . Bike cranks , fuel pump does NOT prime . LCD display still saying 9 vdc . Removed PCIII , again , no difference .
I did get some error codes today though , 23,24,26,59,64 .
I think it is safe to say it is not the battery .
I have a set of needle adapters coming tomorrow for my voltmeter leads for more testing .
Thanks for all the help , really appreciate it !
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could be.... I know just how much they like to chew those wires, for sure... but if the connector was disconnected, and the lights glowed.... then id say they weren't disconnected....
but then, people do weird things.
Light would glow , very dim , after key switched off . It is currently unplugged , no glow . It made no difference .
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bizarre
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Jeez mate, good luck with sorting it. I hope you manage to fix it soon.
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Work back from the fuel pump not priming..................would be my first line of attack now battery and its earth gave been eliminated from the game 👍
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hmmmm
ask me how I knew the EXACT codes that popped up, and had posted them yesterday.
battery tender is a tender.... it will not deeep cycle charge or stimulate a battery that has never had a full charge, ever...
the batt should have been charged on a chargere at a higher amp supply, for a specified time, to reach full capacity.
not below a 2 amp slow cycle.... I use a switchable 2 amp/6 amp charger, with an actual ammeter, and it shows current at start and during process, a new batt could be charged at 6 amps for about a half hour before its really correct... just sharing again.
the parts store kids at the counter are not mechanics.
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Hi
OK this has tweaked my interest so having read all the thread, and studied the wiring diagram and repair manual I would start at the glowing back light, something is very wrong there, and it will be the easiest to trace.
If I am teaching my granny how to suck eggs, sorry.
Start at the glowing tail light: -
First measure the voltage between the battery negative terminal and the light negative, there should be 0.0 volts.
If there is any reading, trace back until you find where it is coming from. As you can see from the diagram its a direct connection from the battery negative to the bulb negative, but it incorporates a load of "joint connectors", just work back from the bulb.
If there is no reading then repeat the process on the battery negative to the bulb positive, if its glowing then there will be a low voltage, again follow it back and find where it is coming from.
Richard
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Got to say Richard I'm curious to see the fault unearthed 😃
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Got to say Richard I'm curious to see the fault unearthed 😃
Indeed!
After 3 attempts the diagram now works........
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Thanks for the diagram! :thumbs: :goodpost:
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Thanks for the diagram! :thumbs: :goodpost:
thanks for the diagram, we have these in our fsm's. I have examined them well prior to this to preclude the possibility of the led tail lamp being a cause... it isn't. the o/p did in fact disconnect the tail lamps from the system, and it did nothing to remedie the situation.
now explain why the tail.light led's glow, and the license plate light does not... I could interject the voltagebis low enough not to light it, but I believe its more than what you are thinking... my post of the exact codes that would appear, should give some semblence that I am on the pulse of this issue...
the glowing tail marker is a resultant thing... and I do not believe related to the real issue...
this electrical system is both complex in some aspects, and very simple in others, the simple thing is the flyback signals that need to be present, to shut down tertiary systems, coming from ecu's... this is all an orchestrated system, something like this glowing tail light may be a precurser just demonstrating some other pass (thru the ecu) that is being missed.
something is not feeding back thru a loop, telling systems to shut down... it ain't the tail led's doing it....
there is still an undervoltage trigger, that is causing this issue, and also why the throttle sensor is fluttering...and maybe the led thing...
go back, and completely read the whole progression of events.
tuning in on one specific post, and making a diagnosis, and pointing to something totally remote, caused by something clearly significant doesn't do a lot on this.
the codes that popped up are clearly a sign of an undervoltage supply to the bike/ecu/system.
we ran this one down, and put it to bed in one day, when all instructions were followed,.without a bunch of othernstuff being "done" or other people "doing the work" like people supposedly checking battery and saying it is fine...
one of the benefits of the COG membership, is our technical advice, from owners that have a long history on both this bike, and its predecessor...
might want to log in, create an account,.and read a bit...
some of us really do know about this bike..and issues...
http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=65801.0 (http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=65801.0)
have a nice day, I'm off.
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might want to log in, create an account,.and read a bit...
some of us really do know about this bike..and issues...
http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=65801.0 (http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=65801.0)
have a nice day, I'm off.
You can actually read posts from the COG forums without being a member or signing in (same with the zggtr.org forums too).... you just can't post.
I like my first post on this thread which included "If we had a dollar for every time this [battery/connections] was the cause of a mysterious problem, we would be rich :)" Still wondering if I will collect that dollar....
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If you hear hoofbeats, look for horses, not zebras. Unless you're in Africa, then look for zebras.
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hmmmm
ask me how I knew the EXACT codes that popped up, and had posted them yesterday.
battery tender is a tender.... it will not deeep cycle charge or stimulate a battery that has never had a full charge, ever...
the batt should have been charged on a chargere at a higher amp supply, for a specified time, to reach full capacity.
not below a 2 amp slow cycle.... I use a switchable 2 amp/6 amp charger, with an actual ammeter, and it shows current at start and during process, a new batt could be charged at 6 amps for about a half hour before its really correct... just sharing again.
the parts store kids at the counter are not mechanics.
The slow charge on my regular charger is 30amp , fast is 60amp with a 200 amp "start boost" . But , this charger is just a conventional . Is it necessary to use one with a specific AGM setting ? Is the 30amp "slow" setting too fast ? Investing in an actual AGM capable charger isn't a bad idea with battery construction today .
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What about trying to jump start it?
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That is what I was thinking. Hook up to a car battery but do NOT have the car running.
What about trying to jump start it?
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The slow charge on my regular charger is 30amp , fast is 60amp with a 200 amp "start boost" . But , this charger is just a conventional . Is it necessary to use one with a specific AGM setting ? Is the 30amp "slow" setting too fast ? Investing in an actual AGM capable charger isn't a bad idea with battery construction today .
Motorcycle batteries are small. I would be very careful charging it with something as strong as 30/60 amps; timing is critical to prevent overcharging (which can seriously damage the battery, or even cause a fire). A 4/6 amp charger seems more reasonable (which is what I have as a general battery charger). Of course, you can overcharge any battery with just about any "dumb" charger (and mine is "dumb" so I really do need to get one with a regulator and/or timer, myself... I have just been a cheap bastard).
A trickle charger is usually < 0.5-1 amp and should ALWAYS be an "intelligent" model that will self regulate, because it is designed to be connected continuously for days/weeks/months.
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Motorcycle batteries get smoked if you put a fast and high amp charge on them.
3 amp charge for about 12 hours works well. 8)
So many experts around here. Somebody go get this guys bike started. ::)
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The slow charge on my regular charger is 30amp , fast is 60amp with a 200 amp "start boost" . But , this charger is just a conventional . Is it necessary to use one with a specific AGM setting ? Is the 30amp "slow" setting too fast ? Investing in an actual AGM capable charger isn't a bad idea with battery construction today .
what "regular" battery do you use that on????? a Towmotor.?????
don't even think of attempting to use that.
I thought it was pretty clearly defined in my post, about 6 amps.... and a half hour, and watching it on the ammeter to see charge progress....
don't use a boost charger or starter charger, simply overkilll
(http://i5.walmartimages.com/dfw/dce07b8c-e3ed/k2-_bed56297-8e9a-4f67-899f-5105f0767130.v1.jpg)
I cheap Walmart 2/6 amp charger, with a meter, only costs $30....
http://www.walmart.com/ip/15160135?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227016703628&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=t&wl3=40839229832&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=78652343192&veh=sem (http://www.walmart.com/ip/15160135?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227016703628&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=t&wl3=40839229832&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=78652343192&veh=sem)
here's the manual for it....
http://www.batterychargers.com/content/pdf/00-00-000381.pdf (http://www.batterychargers.com/content/pdf/00-00-000381.pdf)
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I went by a place this weekend advertising 1yr batteries for 29.95.. Did a double take on that.
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• 13 HP HONDA OR BRIGGS AND STRATTON ENGINE (FULL TWO YEAR WARRANTY) WITH FUEL TANK AND ELECTRIC START
• SOLID STATE POLARITY AND OVER-VOLTAGE PROTECTION (OVER-VOTAGE WILL CAUSE CABLES TO ELECTRONICALLY BE TURNED OFF AND UNIT WILL NOT OPERATE IF CABLES ARE CONNECTED REVIRSE POARITY)
• DIGITAL VOLTMETER (DISPLAYS CONSTANT READING OF OUTPUT VOLTAGE)
• 35', 4/0 COPPER CABLES (VERY FLEXIBLE IN EXTREME COLD)
• RELIABLE HIGH AMPERAGE ALTERNATORS
• CUSTOM BUILT 1000 AMP CONTINUOUS DUTY SOLENOIDS
• MICRO-PROCESSOR
* TWO YEAR WARRANTY
SUPER START 2000
MODELS:
12 / 24 VOLT
12 VOLT ONLY
OUTPUT:
12 VOLT - 2000 AMPS
24 VOLT - 1000 AMPS
DIMENSIONS:
18"W x 34"L x 30"H
WEIGHT:
604 LBS
This setup should be sufficient for a jump start! :P
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meh...
thats not a power source.....
THIS is a power source....
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/OLD%20WORK%20SHIT/03-01-06_zpsea6xvukb.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/OLD%20WORK%20SHIT/03-01-06_zpsea6xvukb.jpg.html)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/OLD%20WORK%20SHIT/04-04-06_zpsaiwbd2yz.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/OLD%20WORK%20SHIT/04-04-06_zpsaiwbd2yz.jpg.html)
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/OLD%20WORK%20SHIT/DSCF0021_zps8mv6fiqy.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/OLD%20WORK%20SHIT/DSCF0021_zps8mv6fiqy.jpg.html)
heheheh
This was a backup power unit I designed back in '06
It was for the US Embassy in Buenos Aries....
not too portable tho... it weighed in at
57.000 lbs....
but it was super quiet, sound proofed container, sound level at 20' away was only 70db
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/OLD%20WORK%20SHIT/IMG_0872_zpsnb2bppoe.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/OLD%20WORK%20SHIT/IMG_0872_zpsnb2bppoe.jpg.html)
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Nice work! Impressive that we have people on here with skill to design things like that!
Here is my power source. Good for just under a couple megawatts apiece, I generally run 4 at a shot. A few years ago during the big ice storm blackout we just drove one up the street and used it to power a town in Quebec.
P.S--Sorry for the thread jack. Back to the issue, I am really interested to see what the issue is. :offtopic:
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I just love a nice choo choo. If you want, start a new thread in the OPEN board about locomotives. I don't think we've ever had one of those before.
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I just love a nice choo choo. If you want, start a new thread in the OPEN board about locomotives. I don't think we've ever had one of those before.
Try living in a town that has ~40 trains a day coming through. You wouldn't care to read (or hear) a damn thing about trains!
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Don't be a hater, C... :rotflmao: