Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: maxtog on July 01, 2011, 04:19:16 PM
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Summary: I just finished a complex project. My goal was to greatly increase front and side visibility of the bike. To do this, I planned on converting the front signal lights to running lights (DRL) by "reversing" their operation and the city lights to bright yellow with strobes. Days later, I have completed the project. Have learned a lot. And the running lights portion is VERY effective at increasing front and side visibility in both day and night. Here are the details, then pictures to follow.
LED's: The yellow 1156 LED bulbs I purchased from autoillumination.com were way too dim (measured 2.4 watts on the 120 LED and 3.8watts on the 68 LED). Despite the claims of the "brightest 1156 bulbs ever", I estimate they were about HALF the brightness of the 22watt incandescent bulbs. Similar story with the 194 LED bulbs I purchased- they were about 25% dimmer (measured 1.2 watts ea) than stock and very orange (not yellow/amber like the turn signals). These were huge setbacks, as I had spent many hours researching lights. I was forced to proceed with incandescents, because there is no point if not bright. UPDATE 6-2016: I finally found and installed LED bulbs that are much brighter than stock.
Turn signals: Typically, front running lights are done with dual-filament bulbs- a low watt for running light and a high watt for the turn function. I could have done this by replacing the front sockets, somehow. But the result would be a weak running light which I think has low value. Instead, I decided to "reverse" the turn signal so the single-filament-bright bulb stays on all the time and flashes OFF when turning, so the running light would be very bright all the time. I created a controller with two mini 12volt relays and two load resistors. Strapped it together with tie wraps, and sealed the business side with silicone. Created and painted a bracket that connects to the top mirror bolt and hangs the unit in front of the wiring boot under the left mid fairing. Connected it's power to a switch on the dashboard and then to a fuse and the front accessory leads. One cable runs to each front turn signal where I cut and spliced in the hot wire on each. The controller "reverses" the function of the signals and has load resistors to maintain the flash rate. The unit works, but the load resistors get considerably hot with continued used (after 5 min of emergency flashers, it was too hot to touch. A bigger issue is that the 22 watt bulbs throw off a lot of heat. After 20-30 min, I measured the temperature above the light housings at 175 degrees max and 120-160 degrees away from the tiny hot spot (directly above the bulb). I have concerns about the plastic melting or degrading, and also the bulb life. [UPDATE 06-2015: I replaced the stock flasher controller with a solid state model so there should be no need for the load resistors in this project anymore. See additional postings for more info.] [UPDATE 04-2016: Although they are still incandescent, I have still had no issue with plastic melting]
City lights: I replaced the stock clear bulbs with 5 watt yellow incandescents for now. Despite much research, I was unable to find anything brighter that would fit. I then installed a dual lamp, mini Xenon strobe in each of the same city lights housings. Since it is a small unit, they are not terribly bright. The controller is set for one flash every second, just enough to give a twinkle effect- same purpose as a headlight modulator, just far less annoying. Velcroed the controller to the bike, and ran power to a switch on the dash. UPDATE: I later switched to these VLEDS amber LED's which are almost as bright as incand. - http://www.vleds.com/shop-bulb-numbers/194-168-158-led/6-a.html (http://www.vleds.com/shop-bulb-numbers/194-168-158-led/6-a.html) and then UPDATE 6-2016, I replaced those with MUCH better JDM Astar LED bulbs.
Conclusion/pics: It was much, much more work than I expected. And there are issues with heat. But the goal was met- it looks impressive and I believe it will enhance safety. Plus, this setup *is* compatible with LED bulbs, if I ever locate suitable ones. Attached is a no-so-great photo of the bike when the ignition is on but not started. Then a photo of the controller I made, and two of how it is mounted (and showing the two switches).
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Interesting project, Max. I gotta say though, the controller looks like a roadside bomb :chugbeer:
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Wow, that's quite the undertaking Max!! LED's would definately lesson the system load. Thanks for posting! :thumbs:
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Wow, that's quite the undertaking Max!! LED's would definitely lesson the system load.
Yeah, I will jump on yellow LED bulbs just as soon as someone can tell me which ones are as bright (or brighter) than 22W incandescent while retaining good omni-directional light throw. I estimate they would have to be at least 6W LED's. I think there is a reason sites like autoillumination don't post any useful info (like lumens or actual wattage)..... they have something to hide.
Thanks for posting! :thumbs:
I try my best to give back to the forum that has given so much to me. I wouldn't have even attempted to buy this bike had it not been for so much information available to reassure me I could mod it (especially lowering), ride it, and be happy with it.
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I try my best to give back to the forum that has given so much to me. I wouldn't have even attempted to buy this bike had it not been for so much information available to reassure me I could mod it (especially lowering), ride it, and be happy with it.
Good folks, good times!
:grouphug:
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That's a project. I'm not sure I have the brain nor the time for this project! I'll just use my piaa running light instead! ;D
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That's a project. I'm not sure I have the brain nor the time for this project! I'll just use my piaa running light instead! ;D
I considered using separate lights, but then they would be only visible from the front. This has the advantage of being seen from the sides and front, plus it is all very "stock" looking. Due to the heat issues, I am not sure I would freely recommend it to anyone else yet, not until suitable LED bulbs can be located (if ever).
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I have Kisan Signal Minder on each of my C-14's....use turn signals as brake lights and as running lights, and incorporates self-cancelling turn signals too! Works!!
Ninja
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Any reason you didn't just replace the 1156 single element sockets and bulbs with 1157s? Seems this would have been an easier way to get running lights on the front and you would only have had to add a keyed power source to the second filament.
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I considered using separate lights, but then they would be only visible from the front. This has the advantage of being seen from the sides and front, plus it is all very "stock" looking. Due to the heat issues, I am not sure I would freely recommend it to anyone else yet, not until suitable LED bulbs can be located (if ever).
How about drilling a small hole underneath the light, no one will see it and you can release heat from the bulb.
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You can get a small cooling fan to blow fresh air on those bulbs and keep them cooler and make them last longer....may take less power and make the bike go faster...
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I have Kisan Signal Minder on each of my C-14's....use turn signals as brake lights and as running lights, and incorporates self-cancelling turn signals too! Works!!
?Unless you change the rear bulbs to red, it would be very illegal to use the rear yellow turn signals as running lights or brake lights. Of course, that is a quick bulb swap.
But otherwise, sounds interesting at $110. Of course, my two relays and two load resistors added up to about $25.... but mine is a hack!
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Any reason you didn't just replace the 1156 single element sockets and bulbs with 1157s?
Yes. The 1157 bulbs have weak running light filaments and bright turn/brake filaments. I wanted as bright as possible for running lights (so they would be meaningful in the daytime)- the 1157 method wouldn't have met my objectives.
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How about drilling a small hole underneath the light, no one will see it and you can release heat from the bulb.
You mean in the lens?
I was actually thinking about drilling a hole above the light [housing]. It is far more protected. But they are sealed units, I was afraid that if I do that, then moisture and grime could enter the housing and foul it up.
They ran for several hours today and seemed to be OK. When the bike is moving, it does help to cool them down. Of course, in the long-term, the plastics still might suffer.
I really wish someone would make 5+ watt 1156 LED's.
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I haven't taken the turn signals apart yet but is there room to mount another bulb socket? Drill a hole in it and mount a separate socket and connect it as a running light, you can use a brighter bulb and it should be simple. On my gold wing I had a kit to illuminate with amber lights around the headlight housing, you drilled a few holes in the back of the housing and installed the amber bulbs.
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These are for a Gold Wing but might work on the concours, they mount in tight places
Running lights but when you turn on the blinker they turn amber and flash,
(http://www.electricalconnection.com/images/haloz-gl18-drl-hl-off-night.jpg)
With turn signal on
(http://www.electricalconnection.com/images/haloz-gl18-signal-hl-off-night.jpg)
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I haven't taken the turn signals apart yet but is there room to mount another bulb socket? Drill a hole in it and mount a separate socket and connect it as a running light, you can use a brighter bulb and it should be simple. On my gold wing I had a kit to illuminate with amber lights around the headlight housing, you drilled a few holes in the back of the housing and installed the amber bulbs.
There is room for a much SMALLER second bulb, but not a full size one. Besides, if you were going to go to that trouble, it would be more logical to replace the socket with one that accepts an 1157 (dual element- low bright for running, high bright for turn) bulb instead of the stock 1156 (single element).
But neither of those mods would do what *I* wanted. I wanted them to be *BRIGHT*. If you had them bright all the time, it would drown the turn signal function. That is why I used the 1156 and reversed the function so they would blink off instead of blink on.
It is very effective and greatly improves the visibility of the bike from the front and sides. The main flaw being they run HOT. If there existed a wide-angle, amber, LED bulb that was at LEAST as bright as an 1156, I would switch to that in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, I don't think any such thing exists.
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These are for a Gold Wing but might work on the concours, they mount in tight places
Running lights but when you turn on the blinker they turn amber and flash,
[rope lights around the headlights]
1) Far too weak in the daytime.
2) Would be drown out by the headlights.
3) Have no side visibility.
4) Do not increase the profile/size of the bike.
So while they might be interesting for some people, I see that more as decoration and not much functionality.... would not have met any of my objectives.
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It has been two years since this mod (believe it or not). And despite my dire predictions, the lenses have not melted and neither bulb has blown yet. I have had some intermittent problems with the circuit occasionally not working (one of the lights not blinking) and just have to reach in and touch the controller and it is good again for a few months. This is despite having been very careful trying to make it rugged. Just goes to show that it is not that easy to design something that will handle vibration, elements, and time on a bike and hold up.
Anyway, still one of the best safety mods ever. I am still hoping one day that SOMEONE out there following the forum will have discovered a yellow 1156 LED bulb that exceeds the brightness of a standard 1156 incandescent bulb (and throws light in all directions, and is not much larger than an incandescent 1156)...
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I like it!! just saw this, back when this was done, I was still riding a V-strom.
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I did it this way
(http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/12/22/83/92/pre_2025.jpg)
(http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/12/22/83/92/pre_2026.jpg)
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I did it this way
Certainly works, but way, way too dim for me.
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Another update!
The connection to one of my load resistors was failing/intermittent. This was causing random/annoying "hyper blinking" on my right turn signal. Rather than take apart the whole thing, I decided to replace the stock flash controller with a new, solid-state controller instead. These new controllers don't care about the load or wattage, so they will eliminate the need for the load resistors completely.
It is discussed here in this other thread: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17998.msg242704 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17998.msg242704)
So if you plan on doing something similar (converting to running lights) I highly recommend using the inexpensive new flasher and skip the load resistors.
Now, if someday I can find LED bulbs that fit, are as bright or brighter than incandescent, and disperse light well, I will convert to LED, too. That will solve the potential heat issues and also reduce overall power (once I remove the load resistors, it would save even more). Been waiting a long time. The good news is that the bulb heat has still not been a problem, even after using the mod for 4 years :)
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And yet another update!
I finally found and installed decent LED bulbs that are significantly brighter than the incandecents and also have an excellent light distribution. It was a lot of work installing the fronts and documenting it, but it allowed me to also finally remove the old load resistors that are not needed (since I installed the solid-state flasher unit).
Read about it starting here: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=19650.msg266009#msg266009 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=19650.msg266009#msg266009)
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Here is a link to another thread with a different way of accomplishing something similar, but with white running lights that switch to yellow for turning. Note my reply in it to compare the two methods (the one in this thread vs. the switchback method).
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22172 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22172)
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Now how funny is that i post my set up this week also.
As stated in my post , i have been making Switchback light for other bikes for years.
I stated Using Auto Illumination, but stopped about 7 years ago, i had made a $600 purchase, of bulbs, and i got 8 bad bulbs.
And had to fight to get new defective product replaced!
Im using the same method i started with back in 2005, i change the sockets to an 1157 socket, and have used several different flashers over the years.
Here is my current post, http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22217.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22217.0)
One thing i strived for on all my kits is that they are 100 percent Plug and Play, all you need to do cut some wire ties!
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Now how funny is that i post my set up this week also.
It is a funny coincidence.
As stated in my post , i have been making Switchback light for other bikes for years.
I stated Using Auto Illumination, but stopped about 7 years ago, i had made a $600 purchase, of bulbs, and i got 8 bad bulbs.
Unfortunately, one of my 4 super-high-brightness LED bulbs I am using is already failing (it is flickering). I have a spare and it is covered under warranty, but I haven't had the time/energy/motivation to swap it out yet (since it is a front bulb, which is a PITA). Otherwise, I love the bulbs I bought (first TRULY bright bulbs I have seen, and excellent light distribution and color).
One thing i strived for on all my kits is that they are 100 percent Plug and Play, all you need to do cut some wire ties!
Will be a lot less work than my method, for sure. Of course, my method is guaranteed legal :)
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Unfortunately, one of my 4 super-high-brightness LED bulbs I am using is already failing (it is flickering). I have a spare and it is covered under warranty, but I haven't had the time/energy/motivation to swap it out yet (since it is a front bulb, which is a PITA). Otherwise, I love the bulbs I bought (first TRULY bright bulbs I have seen, and excellent light distribution and color).
Well, over the years I have had multiple front 1156PY (BAU15S/PY21W/7507) LED bulb failures. The problem is most likely heat. Although such bulbs typically pull only 5W, they all seem to be designed as turn signal bulbs- meaning they will only be used for a short time, and then only "on" about half the time (due to blinking). My mod (which is EXCELLENT for safety) has the bulbs on all the time as running lights, blinking OFF when used as turn signals. So the heat builds up in the tiny space and ends up damaging something- perhaps the LED's themselves, but it seems more likely the regulator inside them that steps the voltage down.
The results in a bulb that works great for a year or something, then random occasional flickering of one or more of the LED elements. In subsequent months, this will get worse and result in more and more flickering and/or some segments going permanently dim or just off completely.
Even with years of advancement, and tons of searching, it seems nothing has changed much in the bulb designs. Some now even say on them "not to be used as running lights", clearly admitting they cannot tolerate being lit all the time. Those bulbs that do have reasonable heat management seem to only be those with built-in load resistors, which defeats the whole point. Those will intentionally suck 20+ watts to be compatible with systems that don't already have an external load resistor or upgraded, electronic turn signal controller/relay.
So it looks like I am resigned to just having to replace them every year or two. Still worth it for the safety. I have no other bulbs right now, and both the front ones are freaking out, so in a few hours, I will be swapping the fronts to the rears (the rears are the same model, but are rarely "on", so they should work OK up front for a while). And the front ones have enough light for just blinking on the rear, plus I have the Admore bar with additional turn signal indication in the rear. Then I will just order some bulbs on Amazon for spares based on looks, since nobody will have any data about using them as running lights. JDM Astar doesn't seem to make non-load-resistor LED 1156PY anymore.
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Since the forum lost tons of photos, I will re-post a few of the project photos yet again (not allowed to modify old posts now, so I can't attach them to the correct postings). Note I abandoned HID for LED headlights- unrelated to this thread but they are mentioned in the photos.
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And the switch to a solid-state flasher which works with LED bulbs and without any load resistors. Disassembly instructions...
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New part and before/after install. Flasher in use now for 7 years without any issue (knock on wood).
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Good stuff, sir. I don’t know why I didn’t think about it, but this reminded me to add my lighting to my maintenance log. I’ve got 14 months and about 14k miles on them and they’re still going strong. I hope my front switchbacks last.
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Good stuff, sir. I don’t know why I didn’t think about it, but this reminded me to add my lighting to my maintenance log. I’ve got 14 months and about 14k miles on them and they’re still going strong. I hope my front switchbacks last.
My front running lights are so bright that at night I can easily tell when they start flickering or not working correctly, while sitting on the bike. Perhaps your switchback ones are designed properly to run all the time. But probably light not as brightly due to that. But I want yellow, not white. And so I will have to play the bulb game. I know this concept works, because I noticed an immediate difference in the way traffic around be behaves- they can see me where before they could not. Not always, of course, but it helps, not only from the front, but also the sides. Of course, the most important thing is to ALWAYS drive as if nobody can see you, and make sure not to dwell in blind spots.
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So it looks like I am resigned to just having to replace them every year or two. Still worth it for the safety. I have no other bulbs right now, and both the front ones are freaking out, so in a few hours, I will be swapping the fronts to the rears (the rears are the same model, but are rarely "on", so they should work OK up front for a while). And the front ones have enough light for just blinking on the rear,
Just to remind everyone- you can replace the front turn signal bulbs by removing the two bolts above the Kawasaki logo and the two top screws inside the wheel well, then carefully pry open the panel and reach in. Helps to have smaller hands, it is tight. Beats removing EVERYTHING by a lot.
Anyway, my plan mostly worked. Left front swapped with left back, good. Right front was horrible so I put one of my older, lesser damaged bulbs in the right rear and moved the right rear to right front. Unfortunately, the front right is already flickering a bit. So I guess both rear ones were not in as great a condition as I had hoped. Oh well, it is a hell of a lot better than before.
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Depending on how the light is manufactured, we may be able to pull the light apart and find the point of failure. Possibly remove or change the component that causes the baking before install.