Author Topic: KIPASS stuck. Round 2  (Read 3398 times)

Offline tjhess74

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KIPASS stuck. Round 2
« on: September 13, 2017, 07:56:42 PM »
A few years ago, my KIPASS ignition switch did the typical song and dance on my 08. It was under warranty, so they replaced it. I didn't give much thought about it until just the other day it started to do it again. I'm creeping up on 100k miles and my warranty expired back in May, so I knew I was on my own here!

I looked through the forums for remedies and saw some had sprayed carb cleaner in the nooks and crannies. That made me nervous, but I tried a reasonable amount, all to no avail. So, with not much to loose, I decided to take the ignition apart and attempt a self repair. There are a few short YouTube videos on line and Fred H. has some good pictures, but there were no detailed instructions.

After removing the top clamp and unplugging the two KIPASS connectors, you must drill out the heads on the security bolts on the bottom.  Once that is done, you can remove the ignition system and use vice grips to unscrew the remaining bolt portions from the top clamp. There's at least a quarter inch sticking out, so there's plenty to get a grip on. Most of the screws on the assembly are security screws. You can get the correct socket set for cheap at Harbor Freight.  Three security bolts on the side allows you to remove the panel covering the solenoid that releases the key to rotate. My solenoid area was very clean, and I just used that access to allow me to rotate the key as I was working and lubricating the assembly.  I've not heard of that solenoid ever being an issue. There is a Philips screw on the bottom and two on the top that allows you to remove the tall, slender box that houses the actual switch that is the offending culprit. Looking from the top, there is a tang that sticks out from the ring that contacts a plastic button when you push the key down. That button is what gets stuck.

Once that long box is off, there is one small Philips screw that allows you to remove the plastic button, spring, and switch (it's a small version of a brake light switch). I lightly sanded the sits of the plastic button (it's square in shape) and used graphite powder to lubricated it. There was quite a bit of dust and funk in that area.

Reassembly is reverse, as usual. I used two metric bolts to replace the security bolts that I drilled out. I'm not worried about theft. If someone wants to disassemble my bike in order to steal it, then they need it more than I do.  Before putting it back on the bike, I plugged it in to verify it worked...and it did!!! I gave the whole lock assembly a good graphite bath and made sure to clean the contacts from the bottom access plate where the switch panel is.

So, in short, it's quite doable to disassemble the ignition and clean it up to prevent this problem. I would only do it if you're not under warranty.  I didn't take any pictures because between Fred H. and YouTube, you can easily see the parts I've described.  Hopefully this helps.
'08 C14 Steve's Flash Rocks!!!

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Offline gPink

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Re: KIPASS stuck. Round 2
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2017, 03:58:31 AM »
Thanks for the insight. There's quite a number of these bikes ageing out of warranty.

Offline maxtog

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Re: KIPASS stuck. Round 2
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2017, 05:46:47 AM »
Reassembly is reverse, as usual. I used two metric bolts to replace the security bolts that I drilled out. I'm not worried about theft. If someone wants to disassemble my bike in order to steal it, then they need it more than I do.

Opening up all that stuff won't help anyone steal the bike.  Without the FOB, the bike can never be started.  Period.  All that getting into the ignition switch does is let someone unlock the steering :)
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Diablo6v

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Re: KIPASS stuck. Round 2
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2017, 06:20:46 AM »
Everything you ever wanted to know about KIPASS..

http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/kawasaki_kipass.html

Offline gPink

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Re: KIPASS stuck. Round 2
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2017, 06:27:10 AM »
A bit of his info is erroneous. I think it's been discussed before either here or there.
nevermind
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 03:49:02 AM by gPink »

Offline Diablo6v

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Re: KIPASS stuck. Round 2
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2017, 11:27:35 AM »
Just out of curiosity what parts are "erroneous" ? It looks pretty spot on to the KDS instructions.

Thanks

Offline gPink

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Re: KIPASS stuck. Round 2
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2017, 03:48:07 AM »
Everything you ever wanted to know about KIPASS..

http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/kawasaki_kipass.html
My apologies...I was thinking of a different article. Corrected the previous post.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: KIPASS stuck. Round 2
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2017, 07:25:24 AM »
There are quite a few errors in that article. The first one is in the first paragraph, the antennae is not in the ignition switch housing. Beyond that, KiPass does not 'constantly' send out RF waves searching for a fob, it would kill the battery in short order if it did that. Beyond that....

There are not three ECU's, but two.

His explanation of the RFID system is incorrect and he is calling it an 'RF' system, which is the system that fails before the RFID system is required (full- function fob).

A lot of the fob information only applies to the full- function fob and not the RFID fobs used on Gen. 2 C-14's, this may be due to when the article was written (the information was correct for '08 and '09 models).

His statement about re-registering a lost fob is incorrect; doing so would require the fob's original packaging with the code number on it (speaking of full- function fobs here, as he was).

The statement that the six 'slots' for fobs are one- time use only is only correct for the RF portion of KiPass, the RFID portion is re-writable (or vice- versa, I would have to look that up as it has been a long time).

The statements about the situation of communication between the fob(s) and the KiPass ECU are incorrect; leaving an active fob in or on the bike will NOT cause constant communication and will NOT 'run the battery down'.

His explanation of the sticking activation switch is incorrect; when the switch sticks, the system does not 'overload'. KiPass simply responds to this stuck switch as if something heavy were placed on the ignition key and shuts the system down until the key is released and again re- applied. Also, he states that the fault is that the keyswitch cannot then be pressed down; this too is incorrect- the key can always be pressed down but the problem is that it is stuck down (internally) and it cannot be raised. He appears to be confusing the ignition rotation switch lock with the idea that something can prevent the switch (or key) from being pressed down; there is nothing that can ever prevent the key from being pressed down. There is a long, detailed video about this exact same error on Youtube also by the way, and that video really is very well done but the author does not understand the sequence of activation and what unlocks. In both cases, they seem to be confusing cause with affect.

The article would be fine as a brief overview of the system but there are actually quite a few errors in the explanations of how the system works. There are also a substantial number of errors in Kawasaki documents regarding the actual methods of how KiPass works. At least part of this seems to be that the tech. writers did not really understand the system that they were describing. Another problem is that this is only partially Kawasaki's system and partly Mitsubishi's system so there may have been a lack of understanding it completely in- house at Kawasaki. Of course there is plenty of miss- understanding outside of Kawasaki also; we have been studying and working with this system for 10 years now and it has been a struggle getting correct information about all the various facets of the system. Maybe no one really knows how it works.  :o ;D

Brian

Brian

Just out of curiosity what parts are "erroneous" ? It looks pretty spot on to the KDS instructions.

Thanks
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline maxtog

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Re: KIPASS stuck. Round 2
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2017, 03:30:43 PM »
There are quite a few errors in that article. The first one is in the first paragraph, the antennae is not in the ignition switch housing. Beyond that, KiPass does not 'constantly' send out RF waves searching for a fob, it would kill the battery in short order if it did that. Beyond that....

Yeah, I caught that too.  The only time the bike sends out a signal is when you press the knob down.  That is the whole point of that switch.  You press it, it sends a signal and listens both for the radio signal and the passive RFID to respond, if it hears nothing after a while, it goes back to sleep.

Quote
A lot of the fob information only applies to the full- function fob and not the RFID fobs used on Gen. 2 C-14's, this may be due to when the article was written (the information was correct for '08 and '09 models).

I suppose, but the small passive FOB is exactly the same function as the larger active fob with its battery removed.

Quote
The statements about the situation of communication between the fob(s) and the KiPass ECU are incorrect; leaving an active fob in or on the bike will NOT cause constant communication and will NOT 'run the battery down'.

Yep, and to this day that rumor still seems to circulate.

He also greatly simplified all the changes from 1st to 2nd gen (omitting most of them).
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: KIPASS stuck. Round 2
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2017, 03:44:04 PM »
Yep, that is correct regarding the starting sequence but there are also times, very specific instances, when the bike polls for the fob again once being ridden. Going by memory here (which ain't gettin' better with age), it is something like when the bike increases speed passing 20 kph, then again when shifting into 6th gear (or OD). There may be one other instance also but again, it is just outside reach in my foggy memory.

My point on the RF vs RFID fob was that he was mixing them up and describing the wrong one. Or perhaps he was describing one, in one mode only, and call it 'the way' it works, rather than one facet of the ways it works.

Brian


Yeah, I caught that too.  The only time the bike sends out a signal is when you press the knob down.  That is the whole point of that switch.  You press it, it sends a signal and listens both for the radio signal and the passive RFID to respond, if it hears nothing after a while, it goes back to sleep.

I suppose, but the small passive FOB is exactly the same function as the larger active fob with its battery removed.

Yep, and to this day that rumor still seems to circulate.

He also greatly simplified all the changes from 1st to 2nd gen (omitting most of them).
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline maxtog

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Re: KIPASS stuck. Round 2
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2017, 05:23:13 PM »
Yeah, the bike will know when it is started by RF (active) instead of RFID (passive) and occasionally poll the active fob to make sure it is still present because it will display a warning if it "disappears" while the bike is running/driven away. 

Oh, his article also says that the manual warns to keep people with pacemakers at least 9 feet away from the ECU (bike) so people with pacemakers can't ride the bike.  This is also incorrect.  The manual says to keep the the Fob and ECU more than 9 *INCHES* away from such medical devices.

There are lots of errors in his article.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline tjhess74

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Re: KIPASS stuck. Round 2
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2017, 12:01:16 PM »
Thanks for the insight. There's quite a number of these bikes ageing out of warranty.

Exactly, which is why I thought a 'how to' was necessary. Between my words and the pics/vids online, it's a pretty easy job for anyone with basic tools and mechanical knowledge.
'08 C14 Steve's Flash Rocks!!!

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Offline Diablo6v

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Re: KIPASS stuck. Round 2
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2017, 09:41:38 AM »
Thanks for the updates..Its good to know...