Sunset Strip shooting

[maxtog]

maybe the sale of the ammo will become more restricted/heavily taxed.  Ok wouldn't stop people stockpiling but it might be a start and doesn't take away anybodies "right" to own a firearm.

And it wouldn't do anything, anyway.  That is simply more "security theater."  It is common when practicing to use one or two boxes of ammo.  A single $12 box of 9mm is 50 rounds.  That means I could buy a SINGLE box, just once, and walk into a concert and kill 50 people.  It is simply not practical or sensible.  It doesn't matter that much if you had 100 rounds or 100,000 rounds.

But Brians right, these sort of events only lead to the interdiction of new measures. s he said its highly likely hotels will start taking more interest in what people are bringing in (hmmm waits for the first person to sue the hotel for letting this nutter check in with 29 firearms and various tripods after all what valid reason is there for that?)

What it really means, is that good people, who are licensed to carry, are going to be endlessly harassed everywhere they go.  The concert example is a perfect one.  So they set up "security" which will NOT stop someone who really wants to get in, or who stays outside and shoots in.  But it does mean that GOOD people who refuse to be disarmed the whole way there, during, and the whole way back are punished- they can't go at all.  And that leaves a "soft target" area of thousands of unarmed people just ripe for the picking.  In the Sunset Strip shooting, it is true that having armed good people at the concert would have done nothing to help, that is the 1 in 1,000,000 case.  In most cases the shooting is from within (within the workplace, within the concert, within the store, etc).  And holding the hotel somehow responsible is insane.

What isn't insane is this-  I will grudgingly disarm myself for an event if:

1) They provide ACTUAL tight security with adequate ARMED protection.
2) They search EVERYONE with ACTUAL searches, like at the airport.
3) They have an insured, secured place to STORE my weapon, on-site.
4) They can be held responsible for my security.

And that will never happen.  What they want to do is token security (AKA "security theater") which makes the situation worse than none at all.  It makes the ignorant "feel safe" when it actually does the exact opposite.

[mikeyw64]

And holding the hotel somehow responsible is insane.

Stranger things have happened, all it takes is someone of the right (or wrong) mindset (and possibly a large bank balance)

"In 2008, an Illinois woman Gayane Zokhrabov, 58, tried to sue the estate of Hiroyuki Joho, 18, an unfortunate victim of a train accident. While attempting to catch an inbound Metra train, Joho ran across the tracks and was struck by an Amtrak train traveling 70 mph.  Portions of the victim’s deceased body struck Zokhrabov as she waited on a nearby train platform, injuring her shoulder, wrist and leg.  The lower court judge dismissed the morbidly bizarre case, stating that the young man could not have predicted where his body would strike because he was dead. An appeals court later disagreed and said that it was “reasonably foreseeable” that a high-speed [train] could kill Joho and send his flying body parts into crowds of waiting passengers."


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-12-29/news/ct-met-train-fatality-suit-20111229_1_amtrak-train-high-speed-train-metra-train

[maxtog]

"In 2008, an Illinois woman Gayane Zokhrabov, 58, tried to sue the estate of Hiroyuki Joho, 18,

Not to sound insensitive, but sometimes S*** just happens.  "Deal with it".  It is like a cancer growing ever stronger in modern society that someone else is always at fault and responsible for everything that happens.  Life isn't perfectly safe and any attempt to make it so will lead to a complete and utter lack of freedom, choice, innovation, will, privacy, interest.....  pretty much anything that makes life worth living. 

[mikeyw64]

Not to sound insensitive, but sometimes S*** just happens.  "Deal with it".  It is like a cancer growing ever stronger in modern society that someone else is always at fault and responsible for everything that happens.  Life isn't perfectly safe and any attempt to make it so will lead to a complete and utter lack of freedom, choice, innovation, will, privacy, interest.....  pretty much anything that makes life worth living. 

I don't necessarily disagree with you , but a State Appeals court judge did and found in her favor

[jettawreck]

Perhaps it will be easier to limit unsecurable event sizes so there can't be so many victims.
Legislating people's (even sane ones) behavior will not/has not ever worked.
Unfortunately there is and never will be a way to keep such things from happening until/unless the mental condition of all people everywhere can comprehend and want to be good citizens. What are the chances?? Exactly.

[maxtog]

until/unless the mental condition of all people everywhere can comprehend and want to be good citizens. What are the chances?? Exactly.

Mind control...

[gPink]

Mind control...

http://youtu.be/8eqKKi6RNy8

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

I'd really like to know about what drugs - particularly anti-depressants or mood leveler drugs these killers may be taking. There's more to this than just "sh*t happens". Steve

[maxtog]

I'd really like to know about what drugs - particularly anti-depressants or mood leveler drugs these killers may be taking. There's more to this than just "sh*t happens". Steve

Please note that when I said "S*** Happens" I wasn't dismissing culpability of a murder/attacker/etc, it was in reference to the posting I was replying to- someone was hit by parts of a dead body and then suing the family of the dead person, as if there was some actual intent or fault in the accident.

It might not have been your intention to be referencing what I said, but I wanted to cover that possibility of misunderstanding.  That aside, I agree with your curiosity if such an attacker was on any type of legal or illegal psychotropic drugs (or even perhaps should have been).

[gPink]

I'd really like to know about what drugs - particularly anti-depressants or mood leveler drugs these killers may be taking. There's more to this than just "sh*t happens". Steve

For starters....
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-04/vegas-gunman-was-prescribed-drugs-can-lead-violent-behavior

As police continue to hunt for a credible motive to explain why 64-year-old millionaire, real-estate investor Stephen Paddock sprayed a crowd of country music fans with bullets – a suicide mission that police say was the result of meticulous planning – the Las Vegas Review Journal reports that Paddock was recently prescribed anti-anxiety medication that studies have shown can lead to violent, impulsive behavior.

The suggests that the characterization of events offered by Paddock’s brother that the gunman, who killed 59 people and wounded more than 500 more Sunday in night in the worst mass shooting in modern US history, "simply snapped" may be accurate.

According to records from the Nevada Prescription Monitoring Program obtained by the paper on Tuesday, Paddock was prescribed 50 10-milligram diazepam tablets on June 21 by Henderson, Nevada physician Dr. Steven Winkler. Diazepam – better known by its brand name, Valium – is a sedative and muscle relaxer in the class of drugs known as benzodiazepines, which studies have shown can cause aggressive behavior in some patients. Chronic use has also been linked to psychotic episodes.

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

Please note that when I said "S*** Happens" I wasn't dismissing culpability of a murder/attacker/etc, it was in reference to the posting I was replying to- someone was hit by parts of a dead body and then suing the family of the dead person, as if there was some actual intent or fault in the accident.

It might not have been your intention to be referencing what I said, but I wanted to cover that possibility of misunderstanding.  That aside, I agree with your curiosity if such an attacker was on any type of legal or illegal psychotropic drugs (or even perhaps should have been).

  Not a reference to your post Max. There is a semi-common response I've been hearing that if you live in a free society, then sometimes "sh*t happens". Well we've been a free society for a long time, and this didn't happen with this regularity until somewhat recently.

   If we were to look at the medications we're all taking I think we'd see for one that a significant percentage of society is on antidepressants or mood levelers. They work great for most folks, but here and there, they have terrible consequences. Just look at the suicide rate amongst returning combat veterans. I know of one in my extended family family (my Brother in Law's nephew) who was put on an anti-anxiety drug. After a few days on the drug he was acting very weird, his wife and mother begged the VA psychiatrist to take him off the drug, but the doctor refused, saying once the medication was stabilized in his body all would be fine. The next day the veteran stabbed himself in the heart, and died. Just tragic.

  In the past couple years I've developed high blood pressure. None of the common drugs seems to have much effect, so the doctor keeps changing the script, looking for the right drug. He prescribed a drug called "Clonidine". Clonidine worked best of all to lower my blood pressure, but it did something to my head, too... I nicknamed it "clonidine suppression". I really couldn't think. I can generally work problems from point A to point B... but I spent the majority of my time on Clonidine useless and confused, Until I refused to take it. THEN the doctor tells me "oh yeah, Clonidine was first used in people with psychiatric issues, but when they started passing out from low blood pressure we started using it as a BP medicine. Some folks get depressed and suicidal " . So if I hadn't been able to tie the Clonidine to my brain confusion and kept taking it, how could that have worked out?

   I've never been a person who takes or wants to take drugs (well, at least since adulthood) so I'm generally ignorant of experiencing side effects. So it makes me wonder, how often does this happen? Doctors prescribe drugs like skittles. Consider the opioid problem we have. Something's different about us now from even 40 years ago. We had plenty of guns and yeah there was the Texas university shooter, but that was a huge rarity in that time. Now it's every couple months. Guns didn't change... we have. Let's look at the side effects of these drugs, because I really feel there's something going on there. Steve

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

Thanks for posting that, GPink

  From the article GPinks linked to :

  "Winkler had previously prescribed Paddock 50 10-milligram tablets in 2016, advising him to take two pills a day. Questions about the role that psychiatric medication plays in mass shootings have been percolating for decades, though no definitive link has ever been found, the LVRJ pointed out. There’s also the danger that, by publicizing unscientific linkages in the media, that patients who require the drug to manage moderate to severe anxiety might be unfairly stigmatized for using it."

   Odd how we work... fear of stigmatizing patients who take psychyatric drugs, but no fear of stigmatizing 40% of the population that owns guns, but has never been violent with them. Things that make me go "hmmm". Steve