Author Topic: Pardon my anger...  (Read 9664 times)

Offline tjhess74

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Pardon my anger...
« on: November 26, 2017, 08:36:00 PM »
I have been involved with the Concours Owner's organizations (loose wording to encompass the many utterings thereof over the years) for roughly 15 years, ever since I bought my '97 and later, my '08. At that point, I was no newbie to motorcycles, having grown up on them. As so many of you can attest, we grew up without the benefit (arguable point) of the internet and the many motorcycle forums that exist there. We learned from those around us and from a healthy dose of trial and error.

Over the last several years, I made efforts with my limited time to actively help out with "the Owner's forum" group. I partook in out-of-state rides and volunteered at events like the motorcycle shows that used to happen in the Southeast. I fully acknowledge that I didn't contribute much, but that's not because I didn't want to. Despite that, I have a very short fuse when it comes to bickering and shenanigans between a bunch of people that are supposed to support the same cause. It was those shenanigans that kept me at bay from actually doing more with "the Group".  Upon "the Split", I saw a sharp rise in nonsense, which was quite disheartening. It lead me to no longer be a paid member, as I cannot willingly support said nonsense. It wasn't too long after that, when "the Other" site locked out non paying members. So be it. It has soured me a bit and caused me to step back and not be as active as I once was on either forum.

But now, I have learned that the unforgivable has happened. The shenanigans have boiled over and someone that I respect to the utmost has decided it is time to leave. As some of you may already know, long time member and likely one of the most valuable members this line of motorcycles has ever seen, Fred Harmon, has decided to call it quits. His internet and physical presence, and value, will be gone to all of us. The rhetoric, the backstabbing, the insults, the criticism, and lack of support from those in charge has lead him to say it is no longer worth it.  Fred dedicated his entire adult life, as an engineer, to making things better. His generosity lead him to devote much of his time and money into helping us make our Connies better, and helped many of us save thousands of dollars in showing us how to perform complicated maintenance procedures on our own.

It's all I can do at this point to not go off on a profanity laced tirade, partly because it wouldn't make it to print any way. But to those in the leadership positions at "the Other forum", F#&K YOU. You have allowed good members to get so frustrated with your inept manner of organization and leadership, that they have left one of the most technically valuable forums on the internet. Each one of you should be absolutely ashamed at your high school level cliques and petty devisiveness. It is beyond comprehension how a few immature asshats can be allowed to chase off well established and valuable members. Even the hardest of stones can be worn down to nothing, given enough time. If you are one of those that contributed to this outcome, then F#& YOU, too. The sharing of knowledge is one of our most valuable resources as humans, and stupid bitches like you have ruined a perfectly good thing.

I have taken some time to calm down prior to writing this, as my original paragraphs were unpleasant. As our bikes get more technologically complicated, we can all benefit from the MANY amazing members like Fred, who have shared so much with us, with nothing asked in return.  My '08 was the most advanced bike I'd ever owned, and thus equally as complicated. Guys like Fred saved me untold money and time in diving in and getting to task. Think about this fact: motorcycles will only get more advanced and complicated. We are now even closer to facing these technical challenges on our own.

Fred, if you ever read this, you have my depth of gratitude for what you have done for us. It saddens me to no end that certain individuals could not, or would not, be restrained to prevent the damage they have caused. I beg you to reconsider, but I do not blame you for your decision.

It matters not to me if you disagree. Some people just have a hard time with facts.
'08 C14 Steve's Flash Rocks!!!

The 'other' forum evicted me!

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2017, 08:57:31 PM »
The COG forum does not prohibit non- paying members from using the forum, reading AND posting. The COG members (paid members) have a little flag that indicates status: active, while the non- paying "members" have that same flag set to 'Forum Subscriber', which means that person is NOT  a current member of COG and merely a forum guest. So unless you personally have been banned, you can go there anytime, sign up and post if you choose to do so.

As to the rest of of your post, I also saw those threads but know the friction goes back much, much further that the last few days or 2017 or anything like that. A long time ago, fur was rubbed the wrong way (I do not know by whom) and unfortunately it set off a lot of the crankiness that fed into the current situation. I am not taking sides, merely saying that the initial cause of a great deal of the unhappiness there is not between those two people and it goes back a long way (years).

They do have new management in quite a few positions there and I know a few of them: good people, trying to do the very best of what they see as the 'right thing'. And mostly, I think they are doing a good job and trying to steer the organization to better places but they have constraints, none of them, at least none that I know personally are dictatorial, and they have to work w/in the framework of the of that organization and different members are pulling in different directions, which is normal and to be expected in any sizable organization with no real rules or constraints on the members. I do not believe they will act summarily and do anything drastic such as take sides, choose the 'more popular' of any combatants and throw the other one out, etc. Of course I speak for no one at COG and this is simply my opinion so take it for what it is worth.

Brian

I have been involved with the Concours Owner's organizations (loose wording to encompass the many utterings thereof over the years) for roughly 15 years, ever since I bought my '97 and later, my '08. At that point, I was no newbie to motorcycles, having grown up on them. As so many of you can attest, we grew up without the benefit (arguable point) of the internet and the many motorcycle forums that exist there. We learned from those around us and from a healthy dose of trial and error.

Over the last several years, I made efforts with my limited time to actively help out with "the Owner's forum" group. I partook in out-of-state rides and volunteered at events like the motorcycle shows that used to happen in the Southeast. I fully acknowledge that I didn't contribute much, but that's not because I didn't want to. Despite that, I have a very short fuse when it comes to bickering and shenanigans between a bunch of people that are supposed to support the same cause. It was those shenanigans that kept me at bay from actually doing more with "the Group".  Upon "the Split", I saw a sharp rise in nonsense, which was quite disheartening. It lead me to no longer be a paid member, as I cannot willingly support said nonsense. It wasn't too long after that, when "the Other" site locked out non paying members. So be it. It has soured me a bit and caused me to step back and not be as active as I once was on either forum.

But now, I have learned that the unforgivable has happened. The shenanigans have boiled over and someone that I respect to the utmost has decided it is time to leave. As some of you may already know, long time member and likely one of the most valuable members this line of motorcycles has ever seen, Fred Harmon, has decided to call it quits. His internet and physical presence, and value, will be gone to all of us. The rhetoric, the backstabbing, the insults, the criticism, and lack of support from those in charge has lead him to say it is no longer worth it.  Fred dedicated his entire adult life, as an engineer, to making things better. His generosity lead him to devote much of his time and money into helping us make our Connies better, and helped many of us save thousands of dollars in showing us how to perform complicated maintenance procedures on our own.

It's all I can do at this point to not go off on a profanity laced tirade, partly because it wouldn't make it to print any way. But to those in the leadership positions at "the Other forum", F#&K YOU. You have allowed good members to get so frustrated with your inept manner of organization and leadership, that they have left one of the most technically valuable forums on the internet. Each one of you should be absolutely ashamed at your high school level cliques and petty devisiveness. It is beyond comprehension how a few immature asshats can be allowed to chase off well established and valuable members. Even the hardest of stones can be worn down to nothing, given enough time. If you are one of those that contributed to this outcome, then F#& YOU, too. The sharing of knowledge is one of our most valuable resources as humans, and stupid bitches like you have ruined a perfectly good thing.

I have taken some time to calm down prior to writing this, as my original paragraphs were unpleasant. As our bikes get more technologically complicated, we can all benefit from the MANY amazing members like Fred, who have shared so much with us, with nothing asked in return.  My '08 was the most advanced bike I'd ever owned, and thus equally as complicated. Guys like Fred saved me untold money and time in diving in and getting to task. Think about this fact: motorcycles will only get more advanced and complicated. We are now even closer to facing these technical challenges on our own.

Fred, if you ever read this, you have my depth of gratitude for what you have done for us. It saddens me to no end that certain individuals could not, or would not, be restrained to prevent the damage they have caused. I beg you to reconsider, but I do not blame you for your decision.

It matters not to me if you disagree. Some people just have a hard time with facts.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline tjhess74

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2017, 09:09:34 PM »
Brian, unless they've changed in the last year or so, I was unable to post as a non paying member. My login was terminated (held hostage?) and the only remedy was paying the membership dues. Perhaps they have opened it back up. I rarely visit that site, so I'm not likely to sign back up, regardless.

I don't pick sides either, but am fully aware of much of the years-long drama that has occurred between differing groups. I have always tried to ignore the nonsense and stick to the bikes (not always successful). For the most part, it was manageable, but every year seemed to get worse. I just feel sorry for all the future members that will have one less amazing source of help because of this nonsense. It's just frustrating, and now Fred is gone.
'08 C14 Steve's Flash Rocks!!!

The 'other' forum evicted me!

Offline just gone

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2017, 09:24:04 PM »
I also am indebted to Fred and his efforts to assist us in our C14 relationship. He has contributed very much.

 He may someday go back as Brian did. Perhaps he will return here. Time will tell.
I slightly disagree about the responsibility of those in charge to this development, although I do have other bones to pick with the COG forum administration.
There certainly can be a pack mentality over there occasionally where folks can pile on excessively with anyone that differs with one of their icon members. I don't think that was
the case with Fred. I await to see what happens on this forum which Fred Harmon left years ago. I say that because the major reason (Man of Blues, IMO) Fred left COG, is also present on this
forum.

As for you being expelled, as far as I know, despite some of us lobbying for it to happen (not you being expelled  :), but rather dues members getting a better ride in the forum)
the forum rules are still the same...except...non dues members aka "forum only members" must re-register once a year.
I'm fairly certain that if you want to re-register over there then you can tell them exactly how you feel and what you think of them.

Getting back to Fred leaving, it's definitely a loss for the COG forum and unless Brian steps in to fill the gap, I expect large outbreaks of unintentional mis-information spreading through the COG
forum. But be rest assured, everyone will be reminded of whom the previous COG tech editor was prior to Fred, ad nauseam.  :pukeface:

Online BruceR

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2017, 09:26:05 PM »
I am not a paid member and I can post freely on the Concours Owners Group forum.
As for moderators or how the forum is run, it seems that a certain antagonist over there now has to have his posts approved by a moderator before they're viewed by the public.  Small steps, but progress being made?  I'm sure too that the BOD has contacted Fred. There's a lot that will go on behind the scenes that we'll never be privy to.  So I'm not giving up on that forum just yet.


Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2017, 09:31:48 PM »
Yeah, I hear ya' Tom. As you probably know, I too left that forum back in '14 and did not re-join COG. But a few months back, I 'stopped in' to say hello to some old friends (I hoped) and also could not get in. But after asking, I was told that they had merely re- set the software and I, and anyone else, was welcome as always, as a forum- only 'member'. They re-activated my old log- in data and sure enough, I got right in. I did say hello and got a pretty nice welcome from some old friends. Of course I have no idea what transpired with your account, just passing along the info. that COG, as a group, has not changed their policy of allowing non- members basically full participation in the forum.

But it is nice to stop in, read a couple of threads, post rarely but once in a while when I think I can actually be of some help and not get into any politics, personal [not polite] exchanges and move on. So maybe Fred will drop back in, maybe not. ??

Brian

Brian, unless they've changed in the last year or so, I was unable to post as a non paying member. My login was terminated (held hostage?) and the only remedy was paying the membership dues. Perhaps they have opened it back up. I rarely visit that site, so I'm not likely to sign back up, regardless.

I don't pick sides either, but am fully aware of much of the years-long drama that has occurred between differing groups. I have always tried to ignore the nonsense and stick to the bikes (not always successful). For the most part, it was manageable, but every year seemed to get worse. I just feel sorry for all the future members that will have one less amazing source of help because of this nonsense. It's just frustrating, and now Fred is gone.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2017, 01:22:27 PM »
No problems with you venting Tom, even if it's about us.. ;)
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2017, 03:01:20 PM »
I could be remembering wrong, but back in late 2010 when I started researching possibly buying a Concours, I discovered both the previous incarnation of this forum and the COG forum.  I don't think I could post to the COG forum without being a paid "member" or perhaps it was some very restricted status or something which is why chose THIS forum and joined it, instead.  Nothing against COG, but at the time, I wasn't going to join a paid group just so I could fully participate in some research and discussion about a bike I didn't even own :)
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Offline zrx mitch

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2017, 03:33:36 PM »
MoB should have been put in "time out" for a few weeks before it got to this point, he comes across as one condescending jackass. I've seen people behave this way on other boards and when it's handled promptly they usually correct the behavior, continue to act the same and they go away.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2017, 06:53:10 PM »
Let's kinda keep the 'jackass' comments to a minimum.  I prefer 'characters' over here.   And yes, he is a character.  Somewhat blunt, to the point, and opinionated.  Maybe a curmudgeon as well but he's our curmudgeon, so let's keep the name calling out of this thread please.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2017, 07:10:57 PM »
Let's kinda keep the 'jackass' comments to a minimum.  I prefer 'characters' over here.   And yes, he is a character.  Somewhat blunt, to the point, and opinionated.  Maybe a curmudgeon as well but he's our curmudgeon, so let's keep the name calling out of this thread please.

The bitchfest has gotten out of hand over on the COG site. I would hope to see it kicked to the Arena if it's continued here.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2017, 07:28:51 PM »
Honestly, I do not believe it would need to be thrown to the arena here; the moderators would deal with it in a timely, fair, [as gentle as possible] fashion but they would also make it effective. They have many tools at their disposal, one of which I have seen used with very good success is a temporary lock on a thread that is later (days, a week) removed with the warning that it will be re- locked if the previous behavior is continued. But Jim has already started the moderating procedure in the post immediately before yours (two posts back). He was nice, tactful, non- threatening but he also put forth the message that he is watching and there are limits. Utterly perfect moderation IMO. Jim is really quite good at moderating us I think.

Brian

The bitchfest has gotten out of hand over on the COG site. I would hope to see it kicked to the Arena if it's continued here.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline T Cro ®

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2017, 07:30:35 PM »
The bitchfest has gotten out of hand over on the COG site. I would hope to see it kicked to the Arena if it's continued here.

How about if we wield the banhammer and sword if it turns into a bitchfest here? As Jim has commented keep the verbiage civil and all is good...

Knew sooner or later the tudes would boil over the pot and catch the entire stove on fire... I sensed it and left back around the time of the great demise...
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2017, 06:38:46 AM »
The bitchfest has gotten out of hand over on the COG site. I would hope to see it kicked to the Arena if it's continued here.


Not to worry.   It won't.   We've got two mods looking at it now....and I'm the nice guy.   :rotflmao:
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Offline gPink

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2017, 10:33:59 AM »
What ???? No party in the Arena? :(

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2017, 11:19:32 AM »
Not yet  >:( :rotflmao: .   Patience Grasshopper.


Back on track, I'd love to see Fred back here.  In fact, I'd like to see more of the old 'faces' that migrated over to the other side and haven't been back.   They are always welcome as long as they come back with a sense of humor.
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Offline Rhino

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2017, 12:38:24 PM »
I still have a set of Fred's CD's but I don't even own a C14 anymore.

Offline kv5e

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2017, 01:00:07 PM »
Not yet  >:( :rotflmao: .   Patience Grasshopper.


Back on track, I'd love to see Fred back here.  In fact, I'd like to see more of the old 'faces' that migrated over to the other side and haven't been back.   They are always welcome as long as they come back with a sense of humor.

Master Po, I hear your call.



gr33nmAn  ;D

Offline gPink

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2017, 02:14:59 PM »
Welcome to the forum.

Offline kv5e

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2017, 02:31:06 PM »
Thanks, I have had a login here since 2002 (Before Split) and my post count is reset.