Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: katata1100 on August 25, 2018, 08:04:21 PM

Title: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: katata1100 on August 25, 2018, 08:04:21 PM
I like the tune and like the better engine braking that comes with it. However , when you use just engine braking to slow down, your brake light won’t get brighter and the soccer mom drinking her venti in the SUV might not know your slowing down and rear end you.
What’s a C14 rider to do?
Enter the StS rear brake module.
Remove the tool box caddy, then that plastic frame around it, held by two Allen head bolts. You’ll see a wire tie down secured by a 10mm nut. Remove it, take about 1” of sheath off splice wires in there.
I used velcro to attach next to tool caddy.
You can pick solid or flashing mode ( I picked flashing) I drove around block accelerating and slowing down using only engine braking. Each time, my wife ( following in her car) saw the rear light flash- it works!
I also installed their automatic turn signal kit and it works real well. It’s actually watching it work. Both
Devices use accelerameter sensors ( like in your phone ) to work. I think the cost for both was around $150.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: maxtog on August 26, 2018, 07:00:22 AM
Engine braking in traffic can be VERY dangerous.  A friend I ride with does this all the time.  Since I am the "fast" bike, I always follow (not lead) and he over-engine brakes all the time and sometimes it catches me by surprise.  It is amazing how quickly a bike (especially a smaller/lighter one) can slow with engine braking.  I think I have finally trained him to "tap the level a few times" as a warning or he is going to get rear-ended by a car one day, for sure.  This is something I have ALWAYS done, even when planning to manually brake.  I am a fan of those "G" sensor brake lights, although I don't really need one, since I am already "programmed" to give warnings manually.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: Rhino on August 26, 2018, 10:49:01 AM
Hmmm... This is good advice. I'm going to look into it.

Is this what you have?

https://www.amazon.com/Smart-Brake-Module-modulator-System/dp/B079NN72MK (https://www.amazon.com/Smart-Brake-Module-modulator-System/dp/B079NN72MK)
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: katata1100 on August 26, 2018, 11:01:12 AM
That’s it
But I think if you go to their website, they might have a special on this when purchased with the auto turn signals and those really rock.
The install time for the brake module should be under 30min.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: maxtog on August 26, 2018, 11:27:57 AM
There are also products such as the Vololights  https://www.amazon.com/Vololights-Motorcycle-Downshifting-Installation-Waterproof/dp/B00MEQ25X8 (https://www.amazon.com/Vololights-Motorcycle-Downshifting-Installation-Waterproof/dp/B00MEQ25X8)  and GearBrake https://www.amazon.com/GearBrake-GB-1-Smart-Brake-Module/dp/B00ODR69QK (https://www.amazon.com/GearBrake-GB-1-Smart-Brake-Module/dp/B00ODR69QK)

[This is a good thread, although the "subject" line isn't great/relevant.  Thus, it will be harder to find, later...]
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: kzz1king on August 26, 2018, 11:31:14 AM
[Does the smart turn turn on and cancel the signal or just cancel the signal? Thanks.
Wayne

uote author=katata1100 link=topic=23669.msg295732#msg295732 date=1535302872]
That’s it
But I think if you go to their website, they might have a special on this when purchased with the auto turn signals and those really rock.
The install time for the brake module should be under 30min.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: katata1100 on August 26, 2018, 01:39:38 PM
It just turns them off. Uses sensors to determine when and it probably works better than any stock system.
I discovered that my mccruise doesn’t work with the stop module. When Cruise tells bike to slow down, the module notices it and flashes the brake lights. That then turns off cruise ( its same as tapping a brake)
I think a work around would be to set up relay between module and mccruise switch. Turning on cruise control would then turn off this brake module.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: just gone on August 27, 2018, 12:00:24 AM
It just turns them off. Uses sensors to determine when and it probably works better than any stock system.
I discovered that my mccruise doesn’t work with the stop module. When Cruise tells bike to slow down, the module notices it and flashes the brake lights. That then turns off cruise ( its same as tapping a brake)
I think a work around would be to set up relay between module and mccruise switch. Turning on cruise control would then turn off this brake module.
I wish I knew more about how this is wired, but just off the top of my head perhaps a diode inserted someplace might allow it all to work correctly. That is if the brake light switches supply power to the brake light in parallel with the module but the diode would prevent back powering of the switch circuit (and thus prevent  the relay coil being powered) when the module activated the brake light. Your solution should work too if you don't want the brake light to come on when the cruise is on.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: B.D.F. on August 27, 2018, 04:58:19 AM
Yes, that would work to allow the CC to work but as you stated, it would not allow the CC to flash the brake light when the vehicle was slowing down while the CC was engaged.

You could use the same relay to wire in series with the brake light and the McCruise so that the brake light circuit to the CC was open whenever the cruise was turned on. That way the brake light would get power and flash / illuminate as needed but the CC would not sense the brake light until you manually engaged one or both brakes.

Brian

It just turns them off. Uses sensors to determine when and it probably works better than any stock system.
I discovered that my mccruise doesn’t work with the stop module. When Cruise tells bike to slow down, the module notices it and flashes the brake lights. That then turns off cruise ( its same as tapping a brake)
I think a work around would be to set up relay between module and mccruise switch. Turning on cruise control would then turn off this brake module.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: katata1100 on August 27, 2018, 08:11:26 AM
The cc is turned off when the brake light is lit.
The only way I see it to work is to have a always closed relay hooked up
To the brake module. When I turn on cc, brake module is turned off.Turn off cc, brake module
works.
When you think about it, cc operation is the time I’ll need the flashing brake the least. City driving
is where I need it the most and where I’ll use cc the least.
I ordered a relay off of amazon,I’ll dig up the manual for my mccruise,
Sounds like Labor Day weekend work for me.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: B.D.F. on August 27, 2018, 08:38:29 AM
The alternative I suggested would be to use a N.C. relay in the circuit that goes from the brake light (relay in the case of a C-14) to the CC. When the CC is engaged, the relay would be energized so that it would be open, and the CC would not sense the brake light being applied by the CC. When you manually engage the brake lights via either front or back brake, the CC would disengage, the [brake light relay for the CC] would drop out and the N.C. [brake light relay for the CC] would again close.

This way you would still have functioning brake lights reacting to the vehicle slowing down via the CC but without the usual disengagement of the CC.

What you are suggesting would also work fine but at the expense of losing the function of the new brake light function while using the CC. In the way I describe, you could have both a fully functioning CC plus the benefit of the brake light module even when the CC is being used.

Brian

The cc is turned off when the brake light is lit.
The only way I see it to work is to have a always closed relay hooked up
To the brake module. When I turn on cc, brake module is turned off.Turn off cc, brake module
works.
When you think about it, cc operation is the time I’ll need the flashing brake the least. City driving
is where I need it the most and where I’ll use cc the least.
I ordered a relay off of amazon,I’ll dig up the manual for my mccruise,
Sounds like Labor Day weekend work for me.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: Rubber_Snake on August 27, 2018, 09:49:46 AM
[Does the smart turn turn on and cancel the signal or just cancel the signal? Thanks.
Wayne

uote author=katata1100 link=topic=23669.msg295732#msg295732 date=1535302872]
That’s it
But I think if you go to their website, they might have a special on this when purchased with the auto turn signals and those really rock.
The install time for the brake module should be under 30min.

I saw an install video for the turn signals and you have to put tiny pads in the turn signal switch mech to keep the lever from sticking left or right.  Basically, you push the lever to activate the light and it returns to center.  After that, the system will automatically cancel the signal after you’ve made your turn, changed lanes etc.  It may be possible that pushing the lever inward would cancel the system, but I’m not sure.  Personally, I like having physical control of the signal.  I’m one of those rare people who try to use their signal for every lane change and turn.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: katata1100 on August 27, 2018, 12:05:41 PM
The alternative I suggested would be to use a N.C. relay in the circuit that goes from the brake light (relay in the case of a C-14) to the CC. When the CC is engaged, the relay would be energized so that it would be open, and the CC would not sense the brake light being applied by the CC. When you manually engage the brake lights via either front or back brake, the CC would disengage, the [brake light relay for the CC] would drop out and the N.C. [brake light relay for the CC] would again close.

This way you would still have functioning brake lights reacting to the vehicle slowing down via the CC but without the usual disengagement of the CC.

What you are suggesting would also work fine but at the expense of losing the function of the new brake light function while using the CC. In the way I describe, you could have both a fully functioning CC plus the benefit of the brake light module even when the CC is being used.

Brian

After reading your post three times, I got it. I guess I need a schematic to try it out. I've got some scrap electronics in the garage, I'll look for a diode (bet there is one in an old wall wart), splice that in front of where the module is and see how that works.
 If that doesn't work, I'lll try what you said.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: katata1100 on August 27, 2018, 12:13:43 PM
I saw an install video for the turn signals and you have to put tiny pads in the turn signal switch mech to keep the lever from sticking left or right.  Basically, you push the lever to activate the light and it returns to center.  After that, the system will automatically cancel the signal after you’ve made your turn, changed lanes etc.  It may be possible that pushing the lever inward would cancel the system, but I’m not sure.  Personally, I like having physical control of the signal.  I’m one of those rare people who try to use their signal for every lane change and turn.

The push in to cancel function doesn't function after the mod. If you want to cancel, just push the switch in the direction that activated the light and it will turn off. You do have control over it. It won't always turn off if you do a very gradual lane change (where your angle to the ground doesn't change).
I've noticed that it is correct most of the time and works much better than the ones that came stock with my '86 Madura 1200. I wished the c14 came with them to begin with. After driving with these, I can't imagine a stock system working any better. Most turns see the lights turned off a couple of seconds after the turn is completed. If you are on freeway and turn the signal on but not turn, it will go off on its own after about 14 seconds.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: kzz1king on August 27, 2018, 01:29:32 PM
The turn signal canceler could be a safety feature if you are like me. I had a gal do a left in front of me. After giving her a dirty look I discovered my turn signal was on.
Wayne
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: B.D.F. on August 27, 2018, 01:49:58 PM
Yeah, I had to turn that over in my own mind a couple of times before I posted it too.

The basic difference is that what I am suggesting would use the new relay not to isolate the brake light or brake light module, but instead basically 'shield' the cruise control from sensing the output of the brake light module while still allowing it to sense a manual application of the brake lights. If used that way the relay- circuit would also need a diode to separate the two sides of the same circuit.

Diodes are inexpensive but unfortunately, now that Radio Shack is mostly gone (I believe a few stores are still open), you have to mail order them usually. Not a problem if you buy them in quantity along with other components but a real pain when you need a $0.01 diode and it is $7.95 for shipping. :-(

Brian

After reading your post three times, I got it. I guess I need a schematic to try it out. I've got some scrap electronics in the garage, I'll look for a diode (bet there is one in an old wall wart), splice that in front of where the module is and see how that works.
 If that doesn't work, I'lll try what you said.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: The Pope on August 28, 2018, 04:08:44 AM
For the issue in regards to the CC being disengaged by the module ....

...... just add some of those LED Brake Lights and connect this module to them only. (aka.... a seperate brake light system....)   ::) ::) ::)

Sometimes you guys just try to over engineer things. Remember..... K.I.S.S.   8)
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: B.D.F. on August 28, 2018, 06:14:06 AM
Yep, that would certainly work also. Good idea.

Brian

For the issue in regards to the CC being disengaged by the module ....

...... just add some of those LED Brake Lights and connect this module to them only. (aka.... a seperate brake light system....)   ::) ::) ::)

Sometimes you guys just try to over engineer things. Remember..... K.I.S.S.   8)
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: lather on August 28, 2018, 10:41:20 AM
The thing I dislike about decelerometer activated brakelights is they activate on upshifts. At least the one I have does. Mine flashes on each shift as I accelerate from a stop. I have the HUB, Heads Up Brake with the helmetmounted LED. It is designed to integrate with the brake system but I opted to just activate the helmet light. Since I also have Hyperlights installed I really don't want to have a full blown light show every time I shift.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: Rhino on August 28, 2018, 11:05:01 AM
My Multistrada has CC built into the ECM. I now wonder how a module like this will effect it.
I'm assuming this is how you would use diodes to isolate the module from the brake light circuit.
Also wonder how the .7 voltage drop across the diode will effect the light.

Wire to lights -------I>i------0---------Brake Lights
                                          |
ST5 module-------I>i---------|
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: B.D.F. on August 28, 2018, 11:19:52 AM
If the brake lights are LEDs, then there will be no change when putting a diode in series. If they brake lights are tungsten, there will be a very slight drop in brightness but not enough to be of concern IME and IMO. A tungsten filament is a very low resistance component that changes with how hot it gets so it is compensatory to a degree (no pun intended about the changing temperature): as voltage is dropped a little bit, the filament will cool down very slightly, thereby lowering the lamps' resistance and allowing more current to flow.

Also, use a relatively large diode and the current drop (not voltage) will be less. For example, pushing one amp through a 3 amp diode will be more restrictive than the same amp flowing through a 10 amp diode. Of course, use common sense and by a relatively large diode, not a diode for a 500 amp welder.

This is one o' dem dare cases where physics is your friend. :-)

Brian

My Multistrada has CC built into the ECM. I now wonder how a module like this will effect it.
I'm assuming this is how you would use diodes to isolate the module from the brake light circuit.
Also wonder how the .7 voltage drop across the diode will effect the light.

Wire to lights -------I>i------0---------Brake Lights
                                          |
ST5 module-------I>i---------|
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: B.D.F. on August 28, 2018, 11:23:06 AM
Good point that I would not have considered. You may be able to delay the onset of the accelerator activated brake light with a capacitor in parallel with the brake light. I have had to do this with several vehicles when converting headlights to HID and the high beam / low beam switch cuts out the low beam momentarily, not a problem for tungsten lamps but it shuts down and re- ignites HIDs every single time the HI / LO beam switch is used.

Brian

The thing I dislike about decelerometer activated brakelights is they activate on upshifts. At least the one I have does. Mine flashes on each shift as I accelerate from a stop. I have the HUB, Heads Up Brake with the helmetmounted LED. It is designed to integrate with the brake system but I opted to just activate the helmet light. Since I also have Hyperlights installed I really don't want to have a full blown light show every time I shift.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: Rhino on August 28, 2018, 12:58:30 PM
Yup LED's on the Duc

If the brake lights are LEDs, then there will be no change when putting a diode in series. If they brake lights are tungsten, there will be a very slight drop in brightness but not enough to be of concern IME and IMO. A tungsten filament is a very low resistance component that changes with how hot it gets so it is compensatory to a degree (no pun intended about the changing temperature): as voltage is dropped a little bit, the filament will cool down very slightly, thereby lowering the lamps' resistance and allowing more current to flow.

Also, use a relatively large diode and the current drop (not voltage) will be less. For example, pushing one amp through a 3 amp diode will be more restrictive than the same amp flowing through a 10 amp diode. Of course, use common sense and by a relatively large diode, not a diode for a 500 amp welder.

This is one o' dem dare cases where physics is your friend. :-)

Brian
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 28, 2018, 03:12:20 PM
There are also products such as the Vololights  https://www.amazon.com/Vololights-Motorcycle-Downshifting-Installation-Waterproof/dp/B00MEQ25X8 (https://www.amazon.com/Vololights-Motorcycle-Downshifting-Installation-Waterproof/dp/B00MEQ25X8)  and GearBrake https://www.amazon.com/GearBrake-GB-1-Smart-Brake-Module/dp/B00ODR69QK (https://www.amazon.com/GearBrake-GB-1-Smart-Brake-Module/dp/B00ODR69QK)

[This is a good thread, although the "subject" line isn't great/relevant.  Thus, it will be harder to find, later...]


I have the volo lights but aren't sure if they really work because they are behind me.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: maxtog on August 28, 2018, 03:50:23 PM
I have the volo lights but aren't sure if they really work because they are behind me.

You need to have someone watch your ass....
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: B.D.F. on August 28, 2018, 03:53:56 PM
I do not know if he is volunteering or what but I feel obligated to stick in an 'Easy Jim' here.....

:-)

Brian

You need to have someone watch your ass....
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: gPink on August 28, 2018, 07:00:59 PM
I do not know if he is volunteering or what but I feel obligated to stick in an 'Easy Jim' here.....

:-)

Brian

That whole post just sounds wrong.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: katata1100 on August 28, 2018, 07:17:57 PM
Adding an extra brake light is an option. I have a Shad 50 tail bag and I could buy the optional
Shad brake light for it. But , it doesn’t look like it puts out much light.
I’ll try some things discussed this weekend if possible, but I live only 5 miles away from the annual Best of the West Rib fest that starts tomorrow and historically, I spend most of Labor Day there, pickling my liver with lots of beer and eating prodigious amounts of some of the finest smoked meats in the USA.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: B.D.F. on August 28, 2018, 07:25:16 PM
Then there is already circuitry in the brake light that drops the voltage from a nominal 12 volt (which is really between 11 and 15 volts) to the correct amount for the LEDs, somewhere in the 3 volt range. So the diode voltage drop will not have any impact on LED brake light brightness. One of the very nice pluses for both LED and HID lighting- the internal circuitry is already there to convert the vehicles' 'wrong' voltage into a useful voltage for the device. HIDs hold their brightness at 100% until the input voltage falls to something like 9 volts, at which point the ballasts just shut down but the actual lamp (burner) never changes in light output. Same relative situation for LEDs in brake or even headlights.

Brian

Yup LED's on the Duc
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: kzz1king on August 29, 2018, 01:18:56 PM
Do the VOLO lights clear the plate light on our bikes?
Wayne
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: maxtog on August 29, 2018, 03:59:53 PM
Do the VOLO lights clear the plate light on our bikes?

That is a good question.  I have not seen any post of someone having one yet on a C14.  Based on looking at the photos, I would say "yes" it will clear, with pretty good certainty.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: lather on August 29, 2018, 05:01:05 PM
I installed a Supa Brake by Vizi Tec on my Multistrada. It is a flasher and not acelerometer controlled but it is very  interactive and programmable and is plug and play. By interactive I mean that it alters its flashing behavior based on your brake use. I have not had an opportunity to ride with someone behind me to verify that it functions as claimed but if it does I think its a great product.

http://www.vizi-tec.com/supabrake3/ (http://www.vizi-tec.com/supabrake3/)
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 30, 2018, 04:32:22 AM
I haven't been cited for obscuring the license plate yet..



Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: maxtog on August 30, 2018, 05:45:08 AM
I haven't been cited for obscuring the license plate yet..

Silly me, I thought you had it on the Indian, not the fast one!  Anyway, that certainly confirms it fits!  Do you think there is any risk of being cited?  I don't...
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 30, 2018, 05:53:44 AM
No risk.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: gPink on August 30, 2018, 05:54:15 AM
I haven't been cited for obscuring the license plate yet..

Don't forget the wrench.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 30, 2018, 05:58:29 AM
I just saw that as well...LOL.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: Rhino on August 30, 2018, 07:01:02 AM
Don't forget the wrench.

Kind of a where's waldo thing. Took a bit for me to find it.
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: kzz1king on August 30, 2018, 12:31:44 PM
Thanks Jim. Think I will give it a go.
Wayne
Title: Re: Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer
Post by: Rubber_Snake on October 06, 2018, 12:39:37 PM
I wanted to follow-up this post with my experience with the S2T brake module.  I bought this directly from the manufacturer and had to wait almost a month for it to arrive, since they are overseas.  I should’ve just gone with Amazon and paid a little extra for it.  I did a brake light / tail light conversion on my ‘09 about a year ago ( http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22821.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22821.0) ) and chronicled the install, so I was a little concerned how it would work with in conjunction with this module.  After worrying about how I had everything wired up, I realized that all I needed to do was install it just like the S2T instructions say.  (I am NOT the wiring/electronics wizard that B.D.F. is!)

Install was simple and straight forward.  Took it out for a night ride and it works as it says.  No flicker between shifts.  If I am careful and gradually slow, it doesn’t come on.  If I simply release the throttle, I takes about one second, maybe a little less, to activate.  Essentially, anytime I back off the throttle, it comes on.

All in all, I’d say it was worth the money.   :thumbs: