Kawasaki Concours Forum
Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: PlaynInPeoria on March 17, 2016, 11:02:05 AM
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Takes seconds. Jim, sorry if this is the wrong area but I WANT THIS TO HAPPEN.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//petition/make-it-legal-all-motorcyclists-within-united-states-america-split-lanes-httpsgoogl2t2vul
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Can't agree.
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+1
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Who likes being a sitting duck while in traffic? Here in California and the rest of the world one understands the risks and benefits.
+1
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Here in WA, I am convinced that if a bike did that (even legally), cars would squeeze the line to prevent it (if not fully cut off a motorcycle). I feel differently about shoulder riding, tho. In stop and go, and low speed, I'd love to have the option of the shoulder (until you get to an on/off ramp, then I'm not sure how I feel).
We had a bill for lane-splitting, but it got amended for only left shoulder (with the same speed restrictions as full lane splitting, and a few other limitations). Perhaps that's a good gateway to get traffic accustomed to motorcycles moving past, and full lane-splitting may be an option in the future.
But I still don't think I'd lane split on the Concours... so flippin' wide.
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I'd be very nervous lane spitting but I lived in Europe for a few months and all motorcyclists did it there. I never had an opportunity to ride but I think cars would have looked at me funny if I were to sit in traffic and not lane split. I think that's the biggest problem here. Most drivers are not used to it. Like RBX said, some would go out of their way to stop you even if it means killing you.
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We should post this everywhere! Facebook, Twitter etc. I used to Lane Split all the time in California for 13 years. You can do it carefully & safely. The drivers there expect it. What would be difficult is that the sates where it's not legal, would have to make the cagers aware that Lane Splitting has become legal (When it becomes legal). I live in Texas so with all the Bug Trucks & SUV's and the Width of our bikes, it could get tricky.
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Why?
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I am not a fan of lane splitting unless traffic is stopped or very slow (like < 10 MPH) and even then there are some serious issues. I would be more in favor of allowing motorcyclists to use the SHOULDERS to pass stopped traffic, if done so slowly (15-20MPH), especially if the intent is just to reach the next off-ramp, simply because properly dressed motorcyclists can severely overheat in even moderate periods of not moving.
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Why?
Which/what why?
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I think lane splitting should be legal and helmet laws should go away. If you don't want to split lanes, don't. No one will force you to do so. Don't want to wear a helmet, don't. No one will force you to ride without a helmet if you want to. Whatever became of choice?
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I think lane splitting should be legal and helmet laws should go away. If you don't want to split lanes, don't. No one will force you to do so. Don't want to wear a helmet, don't. No one will force you to ride without a helmet if you want to. Whatever became of choice?
Agreed!
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Which/what why?
Why should it be posted all over the place?
If it goes into effect then you should wear your helmet as the auto drivers (northern Va) will definitely try to kill you with their doors, vehicles, throw things at you, and sometimes shoot you (and that's without lane splitting). Other than that it should be good. Also, have you ever seen the debris on road shoulders...and riding on two wheels? Are you :nuts: ? I've seen the PO PO with flat tires from running on them.
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Aside from the 'kill a biker' game the drivers would play, we don't need the Feds involved anymore than they already are.
It's that pesky States rights thing.
http://youtu.be/Lr__L3kWsTo (http://youtu.be/Lr__L3kWsTo)
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I think lane splitting should be legal and helmet laws should go away. If you don't want to split lanes, don't. No one will force you to do so. Don't want to wear a helmet, don't. No one will force you to ride without a helmet if you want to. Whatever became of choice?
I see the two as very different. I do not agree with helmet nor seatbelt laws. The government should not tell me what to do with my body that doesn't directly affect others (insurance is not a reasonable reason). Of course, I would NEVER ride without a helmet or seatbelt.
Lane splitting, on the other hand, I believe, poses much greater risks to OTHER PEOPLE of being hit by motorcyclists, many of whom will certainly abuse the privilege of lane splitting improperly. It is complicated to know when and how to do it safely. There are also complicated legal uncertainties about liability when a collision occurs due to lane splitting. It is very possible for two cars to be totally in their lanes and yet still move enough (not even intentionally) to suddenly make no room for a motorcycle to go between them.
In either case, I agree with gPink that this is not a Federal-level issue in the first place.
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have you ever seen the debris on road shoulders...and riding on two wheels? Are you :nuts: ? I've seen the PO PO with flat tires from running on them.
Indeed the shoulders can be hazardous, hence my saying it would have to be at a slow speed. It depends on the roads, of course. It would certainly be on of those "at your own risk" type things. I have ridden on the shoulder only once, because I was absolutely desperate to be moving because I was near heat stroke. I turned on my emergency flashers and proceeded carefully at about 10MPH for about a mile until I could reach an exit. The shoulder was, indeed, far less clean/safe than the main roadbed. My alternatives were few- 1) stay stopped/crawing in traffic and faint/throwup/fall over (actually I had already fallen over once by that point), 2) pull over to the shoulder and remove my protective gear (probably also illegal and certainly VERY dangerous), or 3) ride carefully on the shoulder until I could get away from the situation. What would you choose? It isn't an easy decision....
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The "petitions.whitehouse.gov" is completely worthless, nobody ever pays any attention to these things. Also, this is a state issue, not federal.
Dan
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Indeed the shoulders can be hazardous, hence my saying it would have to be at a slow speed. It depends on the roads, of course. It would certainly be on of those "at your own risk" type things. I have ridden on the shoulder only once, because I was absolutely desperate to be moving because I was near heat stroke. I turned on my emergency flashers and proceeded carefully at about 10MPH for about a mile until I could reach an exit. The shoulder was, indeed, far less clean/safe than the main roadbed. My alternatives were few- 1) stay stopped/crawing in traffic and faint/throwup/fall over (actually I had already fallen over once by that point), 2) pull over to the shoulder and remove my protective gear (probably also illegal and certainly VERY dangerous), or 3) ride carefully on the shoulder until I could get away from the situation. What would you choose? It isn't an easy decision....
If anyone rides in California, they will know instantly why there is legal lane splitting. In fact, it's one of the reasons I love California the most. The thing that is really dangerous are those idiots that lane split at the speed of sound and end up splattered between vehicles when they hit the huge side view mirrors on trucks. These guys have a short life span and give the legitimate splitters like me a bad name.
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I vote no.
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The "petitions.whitehouse.gov" is completely worthless, nobody ever pays any attention to these things. Also, this is a state issue, not federal.
Dan
Exactly! +1
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Exactly! +1
Indeed. And IF it were a Federal issue (which it is not), it would be a CONGRESS issue, not the White House. Despite what presidents seem to think over the past several terms, they are not supposed to set/make law, they are supposed to enforce it. But that is just back to that pesky and inconvenient Constitution thing.
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No, it would be a bureaucratic regulation from the DOT. They're the fedgov and they don't need no stinkin' laws.
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No, it would be a bureaucratic regulation from the DOT. They're the fedgov and they don't need no stinkin' laws.
Ug
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Since it involves use of fuel, we could get rhe EPA involved.
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Luckily for us down here in the RSA, lane splitting is legal. However, it is a requirement that indicators be used when crossing the lines. I live about 13Km (miles?) from work and use the N2 (National road = Interstate in the US) to travel.
Contractors have been busy with road works on this stretch of road for a few months already, which caused lane closures. Luckily it was summer, and using the bike to commute between home and work was what kept me from becoming insane with road rage.
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I split lanes on and off for about 30 miles this afternoon through the rush hour traffic.
It is safe if done with a bit of caution. Been doing it for over 40 years, and have not hit a car yet. I have grazed a mirror or two...but it is a safe and time-saving practice when done properly.
We should make it legal, and then see if Max still thinks it is a bad idea...Hey Max!
dat
sax
man
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We should make it legal, and then see if Max still thinks it is a bad idea...Hey Max!
I would love to see how it plays out if it were legal, although I am not sure I want to be a player :) Drivers are already so bad around here, I have to give thanks every time I make it to a destination safely.
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they've tried to get legislation in front of the State a few times here in Texas...if they made it legal here tomorrow, I wouldn't split a lane for ten years--the drivers in this state would go out of their way to try and kill a motorcyclist splitting lanes, legal or not
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I'd be very nervous lane spitting but I lived in Europe for a few months and all motorcyclists did it there. I never had an opportunity to ride but I think cars would have looked at me funny if I were to sit in traffic and not lane split. I think that's the biggest problem here. Most drivers are not used to it. Like RBX said, some would go out of their way to stop you even if it means killing you.
I did it in California. You get used to it. I was on my C14 with ginormous bags too. A helping factor was that we were at a dead stop on I-215 and it was 95F, so yeah, we did it.
People may want to kill you but really, they already do want to kill you and many other people. But there are laws and they don't want the needle that might come with killing you. So they don't.
Drivers aren't used to it but they would get used to it. Even in CA, where it's been legal for years, people move over to cut you off. But you just slow down for a second and eventually, things open up and away you go. That was maybe 1% of the time. 50% of the time, people saw you coming and actually made room. It was VERY cool to see that. When I did it, traffic was stopped or at 15 mph or less. Once traffic picked up, say 35 or so, I would just drop in with traffic.
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California has legal land splitting and I believe the most motorcycles per capita yet they don't have many issues with it. The California law is "Lane sharing/ splitting is allowed as long as traffic is flowing below 15 mph. There will always be riders & drivers who abuse any priveledge, laws or rules but that doesn't mean the crest of us should be prevented from enjoying or exercising those same rights. It becomes a matter & freedom of choice. If you don't want to lane split or wear a helmet, then dont! Just makes sense.
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California has legal land splitting and I believe the most motorcycles per capita yet they don't have many issues with it. The California law is "Lane sharing/ splitting is allowed as long as traffic is flowing below 15 mph. There will always be riders & drivers who abuse any priveledge, laws or rules but that doesn't mean the crest of us should be prevented from enjoying or exercising those same rights. It becomes a matter & freedom of choice. If you don't want to lane split or wear a helmet, then dont! Just makes sense.
There are no laws in California dealing with "lane sharing/splitting". It isn't specifically addressed in the vehicle code. There are recommendations posted on several motorcycle forums and there are a few efforts underway to codify a legal definition of lane sharing so that the practice can be standardized and limits established for "delta" speeds (among other details).
Dan
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Do the motocops in Cali partake in this lane splitting/sharing as a routine practice?
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There are no laws in California dealing with "lane sharing/splitting". It isn't specifically addressed in the vehicle code. There are recommendations posted on several motorcycle forums and there are a few efforts underway to codify a legal definition of lane sharing so that the practice can be standardized and limits established for "delta" speeds (among other details).
Dan
If something is not illegal, it is automatically legal- unless it is morally or ethically unjust.
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If something is not illegal, it is automatically legal- unless it is morally or ethically unjust.
(Of course, that is generally correct, but I just had to add...)
Is that like the Constitution where it says the powers not specifically granted to the Fed by the Constitution belong to the States and the People?
We can see how well THAT turned out!
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Do the motocops in Cali partake in this lane splitting/sharing as a routine practice?
They do all the time, and in Walnut Creek and Napa they ride C-14's much to the chagrin of speeders who might try to outrun them.
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I did it for 13 years in the SF bay area and if you're ever there, you'll see almost every rider doing it and the drivers expect it. It isn't illegal in California to Lane Split/ Lane Share. When I got my motorcycle license, there was a question on the test about lane splitting and specifically mentioned the 15 mph limit.
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I spend a significant amount of time in SoCal and it is not at all uncommon for motorcyclists, including cops, to split lanes at speeds in excess of 50mph. Once you get used to it, it's not a big deal.
That's not motorcyclists going 50mph faster than traffic, that's traffic going 50mph and the bikes running about 15mph faster.
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I split most of the way home on my commute. The Connie works fine. I don't think the bags are wider than the mirrors. I don't know about the rear canyon cages though.
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I did it for 13 years in the SF bay area and if you're ever there, you'll see almost every rider doing it and the drivers expect it. It isn't illegal in California to Lane Split/ Lane Share. When I got my motorcycle license, there was a question on the test about lane splitting and specifically mentioned the 15 mph limit.
Then whoever wrote the test has no knowledge of California law. There is no speed limitations or any other mention of lane splitting or lane sharing in the California Vehicle Code. There are general laws regarding unsafe vehicle operation but none specific about speed limits regarding lane sharing/splitting since there is no mention of the practice.
Dan
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If I may...
As somebody mentioned, it's common practice in Europe. In particular, it is illegal in Germany, however we do it, a lot. Only the Dutch seat in traffic for hours ;)
In Italy, France, and to some extent, Poland, for example, drivers are constantly monitoring their rear view mirrors and making way for the bikes. There are two reasons: they want their mirrors to survive, and they don't gain absolutely anything cutting you off, and they know it. It's just common sense. German cagers tend to block more than any other Europeans, but that has been improving over the last decade.
So, my advice, look at those places where people do lane splitting and learn from them.
Me, I split. It just makes for a more efficient use of the road. But I'm not one of those nut cases that blast between cars Ghost Rider style. Like with most things in society, a bit of good will and civility go a long way. And I always thank the cager that moves, specially in Germany, where I want them to know that their gesture is appreciated so they feel encouraged and keep doing it.
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Yes. Acknowledging when someone gives you a break in traffic is always the right thing to do. It goes a long way...
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FYI, it may not be legal in California, but it's not illegal either. It has been a gray area for so long that a few years ago, the CHP finally put out guidelines about it in 2013, which is as close to a "law" as we have been able to get. Read it here:
http://lanesplittingislegal.com/assets/docs/CHP-lane-splitting-guidelines-California.pdf (http://lanesplittingislegal.com/assets/docs/CHP-lane-splitting-guidelines-California.pdf)
If you try to find that in the DMV web site, it is interesting because it says:
"Lane splitting general guidelines" information is no longer available.
A petitioner complained to the Office of Administrative Law that there was no formal rulemaking process for the guidelines, and raised other objections. The CHP discussed the issue with the Office of Administrative Law and chose not to issue, use or enforce guidelines and thus removed them from the website.
The underlying purpose of the guidelines was to provide common-sense traffic safety information.
California law does not allow or prohibit motorcycles from passing other vehicles proceeding in the same direction within the same lane, a practice often called "lane splitting," "lane sharing" or "filtering."
Assembly Bill 51 (Lane Sharing bill) was put on hold. It was passed by Ca Assembly but on hold before the Ca senate vote. Who knows when it will come back.
I lane share when I commute in, but I avoid a particular section of the highway as much as I can in car or motorcycle because the road condition is so bad, that my lane sharing is pretty limited (normally only 1-4 miles and I exit and take backroads).
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They do all the time, and in Walnut Creek and Napa they ride C-14's much to the chagrin of speeders who might try to outrun them.
I passed a C14 with someone pulled over on the 805 going north heading out of SaN Diego earlier this week
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I passed a C14 with someone pulled over on the 805 going north heading out of SaN Diego earlier this week
I've talked to a couple of cops in California who love their C-14's, and hope that their departments never go back to Harleys or BMWs. I recommended PR4's to one cop who said that his C-14 was eating a lot of Bridgestones.
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... But I'm not one of those nut cases that blast between cars Ghost Rider style. ...
What a bunch of baloney ;)
I've lane 'split' in CA, many years ago on my first BBG ride. I was in awe that traffic pulled slightly left or right to let me go down the middle as I was riding down I-5 from Weed to Fresno. Again when I lived there for a year.
I've also lane shared with a certain Argentinian living in Munich (like five days worth of riding!), and gone to the "head of the queue" when traffic was stopped for a light/ferry gate/accident in most of EU. It's all accepted (mostly) in mainland EU, and quite normal.
The problem in the USA are the Urban Assault vehicle drivers that are lacking in certain anatomical features. They think if *they* have to be stuck in traffic, *everyone* does. They can't fathom that three lanes of traffic (one is a 'lane share' lane) is better than two.
Or... I did a legal pass on a Sport Ute a few years back. He pulled up on my arse, rolled down his window and told me he was bigger than me and could take me out in a heart beat. I told him that would look real good on his resume. He bailed and turned right, I went straight.
There's a lot of attitudes out there, laws (or petitions) won't change them. Neither will silicone or viagra.
Rick
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What a bunch of baloney ;)
I've lane 'split' in CA, many years ago on my first BBG ride. I was in awe that traffic pulled slightly left or right to let me go down the middle as I was riding down I-5 from Weed to Fresno. Again when I lived there for a year.
I've also lane shared with a certain Argentinian living in Munich (like five days worth of riding!), and gone to the "head of the queue" when traffic was stopped for a light/ferry gate/accident in most of EU. It's all accepted (mostly) in mainland EU, and quite normal.
The problem in the USA are the Urban Assault vehicle drivers that are lacking in certain anatomical features. They think if *they* have to be stuck in traffic, *everyone* does. They can't fathom that three lanes of traffic (one is a 'lane share' lane) is better than two.
Or... I did a legal pass on a Sport Ute a few years back. He pulled up on my arse, rolled down his window and told me he was bigger than me and could take me out in a heart beat. I told him that would look real good on his resume. He bailed and turned right, I went straight.
There's a lot of attitudes out there, laws (or petitions) won't change them. Neither will silicone or viagra.
Rick
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Jim, were you trying to say something or just in the mode for quoting? :)
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Emphasizing a quote that really affects all of us except for where lane splitting is tolerated now... I can make it larger and change the color if you want.
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Emphasizing a quote that really affects all of us except for where lane splitting is tolerated now... I can make it larger and change the color if you want.
Nah, just wasn't sure if you were going to comment on that part and forgot or something. :)
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I'm not sure when they came out (June 2018?) but I just read them in the latest AMA magazine, the California Highway Patrol issued an updated list of
safety recommendations for lane splitting.
(https://www.chp.ca.gov/EnforcementAndPlanningDivisionSite/PublishingImages/programs-services/programs/california-motorcyclist-safety/Lane%20Splitting%20Safety%20tips%20-%20Side%20one.jpg) (https://www.chp.ca.gov/EnforcementAndPlanningDivisionSite/PublishingImages/programs-services/programs/california-motorcyclist-safety/Lane%20Splitting%20Safety%20Tips%20-%20Side%20two.jpg)
Nobody tell max' about the last one on page one that says....
Help drivers see you by wearing brightly colored/reflective gear and using high beams during daylight.
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Nobody tell max' about the last one on page one that says....
Well, just goes to show that some "experts" (agencies/authorities/groups/whatever) have no common sense.
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Well, since someone mentioned it...
http://youtu.be/ld4tIG_PAdo (http://youtu.be/ld4tIG_PAdo)
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Well, since someone mentioned it...
<sigh> ::)
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I'm with max on the headlight thing.
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Oh come on... I laugh every time I watch that video. :rotflmao:
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Well, since someone mentioned it...
:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:
I was hoping someone would do that. :chugbeer:
"...because of my endowments." :rotflmao: