Author Topic: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.  (Read 156253 times)

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2013, 10:34:35 AM »
No pictures, just fond memories.... :-)

Brian

:thumbs:   Pictures or you're just making this up to bring tears to our eyes...
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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gwocni

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Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2013, 12:51:24 PM »
And just so you know, I nearly came home from the post office with a dog. Yep, a long haired German Shepherd named Zeus was in the back of an SUV but looking for a new home as his human is moving from a house to an apartment. I said hello to the dog and his human let him out of the vehicle and Zeus curled up between my knees and leaned up against me (I was kneeling to say hello). It took everything I had to refuse the dog but really only after I was convinced that his human would not put him down nor take him to a shelter that euthanizes dogs. A beautiful, intelligent, healthy dog about seven years old.... it took all my willpower to let him go. So you almost cost me unknown years of happy dog ownership :-)  Not quite ready after losing my last pup last spring but if ever I was tempted, that dog was it.... Sorry, waxing philosophical but it really was a special dog I think.

Brian

You should have taken the dog, you know you should. Did you get the guys number???

I fitted the gismo in 30 seconds flat, just waiting for the fuel to run out now. :thumbs:

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #62 on: November 03, 2013, 01:17:27 PM »
Yes, I have Walter's phone number (Zeus' human). But I am pretty confident that I convinced him (Walter, not Zeus 'cause Zeus was already a believer) that there are animal shelters that do not euthanize animals and that while not a puppy, Zeus was a great candidate for adoption. And yes, I know I should have taken the dog..... and my wife thanks me every day for NOT bringing him home 'cause she would not have been able to resist him either. I love dogs and expect to have one again in the future but right now we are enjoying the ability to stay out past 5:00 PM without having to rush home and tend to the dog.

Good to hear you had no trouble installing that thing. I really do try to make 'plug 'n play' devices because I have found too many things that I thought might take a little 'adapting to your particular model' to require a machine shop and full 3D modeling software :-(   A wise man once told me that the good farkles install in the parking lot of the place where you bought them and I never forgot that.

Brian

You should have taken the dog, you know you should. Did you get the guys number???

I fitted the gismo in 30 seconds flat, just waiting for the fuel to run out now. :thumbs:

Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

gwocni

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Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2013, 04:31:17 PM »
Well now............ I put Constance in the garage with the range on 12 miles. I rolled it out two days later and it appears the angels have had their share and it had gone down to nine. Even at nine miles it should've been enough to get me to the start of todays run or at least to a filling station. Doh!! I started out and the range went up to fifteen and then quickly down to seven miles. I had actually done about four miles in total.

Then Constance started coughing and spluttering, I managed to nurse it a further mile and the range then showed five miles and the motor cut out..... Luckily this was only 50 yards or so from the filling station (not the one I intended mind you) and I was able to coast into the pump.

I managed to squeeze in 22.33 litres or 5.898 US Gal or 4.911 Imp Gal. This is probably about right since the capacity is 22 litres. I will try again to get it to zero or better but I think in normal times I will make ten miles my absolute minimum :)

Verdict....... Great job  :chugbeer:

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2013, 07:28:40 PM »
Thanks for the kind words.

The fuel tank, at least mine, will hold six US gallons but it must be quite low on fuel (but not empty because the bike was still running correctly) and it must be 'overfilled' well in to the filler neck.

Your experience seems about on par with most- the key in your readings was that seven mile point you saw (always go by the lowest number you see anytime during the tankful). So you actually saw it read seven and then got another mile- yep, that was really 'testing the water'. :-)  I usually recommend people do not go below about 15 miles and anything in single digits is risky.

And thank you for taking the results so reasonably. The range estimate is of course just that- an estimate. Trying to get down to the last, say, two miles is a mistake that will punish the rider sooner or later. That is probably why Kawasaki removes the range estimate with so much fuel in the tank- it is inconvenient for the rider IMO but they can say 'we told you not to do that'.

Brian

Well now............ I put Constance in the garage with the range on 12 miles. I rolled it out two days later and it appears the angels have had their share and it had gone down to nine. Even at nine miles it should've been enough to get me to the start of todays run or at least to a filling station. Doh!! I started out and the range went up to fifteen and then quickly down to seven miles. I had actually done about four miles in total.

Then Constance started coughing and spluttering, I managed to nurse it a further mile and the range then showed five miles and the motor cut out..... Luckily this was only 50 yards or so from the filling station (not the one I intended mind you) and I was able to coast into the pump.

I managed to squeeze in 22.33 litres or 5.898 US Gal or 4.911 Imp Gal. This is probably about right since the capacity is 22 litres. I will try again to get it to zero or better but I think in normal times I will make ten miles my absolute minimum :)

Verdict....... Great job  :chugbeer:

Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline galaxieman

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Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2013, 01:02:03 AM »
Finally got around to getting my inspection and plates back up to spec, so I was able to test out the eliminator I got and installed a while back.  Got to where low-fuel light should have come on, and it just kept trucking. It got down to 17 miles left, and given the traffic situation I pulled in and put... 5.02 gallons in.  Definitely something wonky with the calculations since I had been dealing with stop and go traffic for a good chunk of the morning.  I'll keep an eye on it as I plow through this tank, and see where it ends up next go round.  I might even fill up one of the MSR fuel bottles I brought along on my Iron Butt ride just to see how far she'll go.
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Offline stevewfl

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Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2013, 06:15:41 PM »
I am like a slave I tells' ya'- all day long working my paws to the bone (proverbially speaking) and no one appreciates me.



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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #67 on: December 09, 2013, 06:59:48 AM »
Yep, that sounds odd. But I would give it a few cycles to see how it really works. And bear in mind that the whole range indicator thing works best at a steady speed under constant conditions: the highway is the best example.

Remember when the bike is accelerating / decelerating and especially if there are hills, that tends to drive the estimate the bike comes up with off, sometimes by a considerable amount. The good news is that it does seen to trend on the low side as in your case, which is the better way to it to err I think.

But please do use it a bit more and report back on how that works out.

Brian

Finally got around to getting my inspection and plates back up to spec, so I was able to test out the eliminator I got and installed a while back.  Got to where low-fuel light should have come on, and it just kept trucking. It got down to 17 miles left, and given the traffic situation I pulled in and put... 5.02 gallons in.  Definitely something wonky with the calculations since I had been dealing with stop and go traffic for a good chunk of the morning.  I'll keep an eye on it as I plow through this tank, and see where it ends up next go round.  I might even fill up one of the MSR fuel bottles I brought along on my Iron Butt ride just to see how far she'll go.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline h2oplayer

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Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #68 on: January 22, 2014, 01:06:02 PM »
I ordered one of these up today. Thanks Brian.

Did you ever finish the cruise control project?

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: That pesky low fuel warning and the disappearance of the range function.
« Reply #69 on: January 22, 2014, 02:13:38 PM »
Got the order, thanks and it will go out tomorrow.

Cruise control: nope, finally found a way to execute a decent design for the mechanics but never did come up with a cost effective method to make the actuator. It is not a problem making them, but it is a problem making them in small numbers and for anything even approaching a reasonable price. Everybody wants one but not at a price 3 or 4 times higher than a Rostra I suspect. And while there might be a reasonably large market out there across a lot of motorcycle models, that would require different designs, different software algorithms for the control loop, access to each and every bike that the unit could be fitted for, and a fair amount of time and effort into each model. And with the Feejer coming out with CC on board, it really took a lot of the potential out of the equation I think because 1) the market for Feejer customers (at least with new bikes) just disappeared and 2) frankly, I think both Kawasaki and Honda (ST 1300) have to compete before long, which will wipe out the original market. While there will be a pile of earlier models of all of those sport tourers out there, as they age and lose value I think it is less and less likely the owners would but such an expensive device to attach to them.

On another topic, I would like to do something about the lack of self- cancelling turn signals though. Same problem of price but not as bad of course. And it would fit a lot more bikes without a re- design for each one. But it would not be true self- cancelling turn signals for a number of reasons but a warning that the directionals had been on too long for the conditions rather than just time (like it would know you were sitting at a stop light, had not yet made a turn, etc.).

Brian

I ordered one of these up today. Thanks Brian.

Did you ever finish the cruise control project?
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline firehawk618

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Well now............ I put Constance in the garage with the range on 12 miles. I rolled it out two days later and it appears the angels have had their share and it had gone down to nine. Even at nine miles it should've been enough to get me to the start of todays run or at least to a filling station. Doh!! I started out and the range went up to fifteen and then quickly down to seven miles. I had actually done about four miles in total.

Then Constance started coughing and spluttering, I managed to nurse it a further mile and the range then showed five miles and the motor cut out..... Luckily this was only 50 yards or so from the filling station (not the one I intended mind you) and I was able to coast into the pump.

I managed to squeeze in 22.33 litres or 5.898 US Gal or 4.911 Imp Gal. This is probably about right since the capacity is 22 litres. I will try again to get it to zero or better but I think in normal times I will make ten miles my absolute minimum :)

Verdict....... Great job  :chugbeer:



FYI mine ran out and was sitting ~20 miles on the DTE display.
2012 C14 Black

Offline Gumby

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FYI mine ran out and was sitting ~20 miles on the DTE display.
:o

I'm sure Brian has a disclaimer in one or two of these pages.

Offline B.D.F.

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Was it by chance stop- and- go city driving? And did you run the fuel level well down and then shut the bike off? There was one other guy who had a similar thing happen after he used up most of the fuel in the tank and shut the bike down at least overnight; the next time riding it, he ran out of fuel at a pretty high range remaining level like you did. I have not been able to duplicate this with my own bike though and am not sure what is going on.

It may be nothing more than an inaccurate fuel level gauge to begin with. Kawasaki would not be overly concerned with this because they remove all information about fuel when there is 40 or 50 miles of range remaining.

Have you gotten the range remaining to go a lot lower than 20 miles at other times? I am very curious as to whether this was a one- time thing or is more normal for your bike. ??

Brian


FYI mine ran out and was sitting ~20 miles on the DTE display.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline B.D.F.

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I normally recommend NOT going under about 10 miles of range remaining and suggest that perhaps 15 miles is a better level yet. But 20 or more miles is really a long way off and I am surprised when this happens. I do not know if this is something to do with a particular bike (the fuel gauge is a variable resistor with a float on a bent metal arm- not exactly the shining example of precision) or a quirk in the sequence of how the bike is used. In other words, there may be a particular sequence that throws off the accuracy of the estimated range readout but I have not been successful in 'tricking' my own bike into a very inaccurate or odd reading.

I would fix this if I could but as I said, I am not sure why that happened. I will continue to hunt for the cause of this issue and hopefully can come up with something solid to recommend doing or avoid doing. I often go below 20 miles of range remaining and the bike has never taken a full tank of fuel afterwards so that indicates to me that I did have significant range left, per the range remaining indicator.

Brian
:o

I'm sure Brian has a disclaimer in one or two of these pages.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline MajorTom

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On another topic, I would like to do something about the lack of self- cancelling turn signals though. Same problem of price but not as bad of course. And it would fit a lot more bikes without a re- design for each one. But it would not be true self- cancelling turn signals for a number of reasons but a warning that the directionals had been on too long for the conditions rather than just time (like it would know you were sitting at a stop light, had not yet made a turn, etc.).

Brian

Way back when, in 1976, my first motorcycle a Yamaha XS360, a four stroke twin, had believe it or not, self cancelling signals that were not canceling only based on elapsed time. You had to do a combination of turning your steering and elapsed time. Believe it or not it worked fine but I never saw it on any motorcycle since regardless of price. I bought that bike brand new in 1976 for $1250.
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Just traded in my 2008!

Offline Canuck

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On page 44 in to 09 manual it explains how to overide the flashing lfw and return to original display. Its also in the '13 manual. Yes i own two, doesnt evryone?  However, u have to pull over ti do it. I have never tryed it though. I like brians plug better, its automatic and you dont have to stop rusking getting hit by a car.

Offline Kwikasfuki

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I was originally planning on using a separate, remote warning in the form of a simple red LED that affixed somewhere on the dash. That way the bike would ignore the warning but the discreet LED would light when the 'low fuel' level was reached. The two basic problems with that method were cost and the fact that the remote LED would need to be wired onto the bike and a lot of people either cannot or do not want to do any dissemble, wire routing, possible drilling of holes, etc. This is the truly 'plug 'n play' version that can be added to the bike easily.

Hi Brian,

Is it possible to tap into your device for a signal that could then be used to power a led from a separate source? I don't mind some drilling and running wires.

Thanks

Offline B.D.F.

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Unfortunately, no. The circuit that triggers the warning is actually fairly complex and duplicating it more involved than just tapping a wire into something.

I did develop a circuit that will act as a remote warning but I believe it was far too expensive to sell.

Besides, even without the warning, there is still the mileage, the fuel consumption average and finally and best, the range remaining.

Brian

Hi Brian,

Is it possible to tap into your device for a signal that could then be used to power a led from a separate source? I don't mind some drilling and running wires.

Thanks
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Kwikasfuki

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Ah, is that to do with the CANBUS?

I guess I don't need a light to tell me I'm running low ...

Offline B.D.F.

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No, CANbus is not involved with the low fuel warning system. But the LFW is much more elaborate than something as simple as a switch or float or anything else. I do not know where in the bike the circuitry is buiried that handles the LFW but I would suspect either in the circuits potted in with the ECU or else in the LCD display. Either way, I have not found it 'cause I have not <yet> let the smoke out of it. I have let the smoke out of a bunch of fuel pumps though.  :'(

Nothing really wrong with the bike as it comes stock, I just found I did not care for the 'fuss' when the low fuel warning comes on, and I especially did not care for the loss of the range function. To be absolutely honest, I probably would not have bothered to tinker around with this thing at all if they had not given me any range indicator but the fact that they put it in the bike and disabled it at the very time when I want to see it annoyed me.

Brian

Ah, is that to do with the CANBUS?

I guess I don't need a light to tell me I'm running low ...
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com