Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: courtney985 on July 29, 2020, 01:48:54 AM
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Hello all,
Been a lurker for a while, but am having a problem with my 2011 that I'm hoping to get some feedback with. Long story short, stopped for gas on the way to work and when attempting to start the bike it acted as if the battery was dead (thumbing the starter cause the instrument panel to dim and throw various errors about FI, Immobilizer and KTRC…unfortunately I noticed no error code #). It's done this before, but usually switching it off and waiting a second or two it would fire up normally. No go this time and progressively got worse the more times I retried; I believe that at this point I was just draining the battery. Eventually I got a tow and the bike is now sitting in my garage on the trickle charger.
Since I’ve had it home, the behavior has changed a bit. When it was first fully charged the dash would light up normally (both left red and oil light, dials would spin, etc), but once I hit the ignition switch I’d get nothing but a rapid clicking noise coming from the tank area and an alternating errors on the display: KTRC and K-ACT ABS error.
Strangely, since getting the battery tested (it’s good) the bike is now acting differently. Now when I turn it on the display takes a moment before illuminating and pressing the starter I hear a click and the dash goes dark with only the oil light faintly illuminated (along with Neutral). Turning off the key nob and back on repeats the same behavior.
For the record, the bike is a 2011 with 22k some odd miles (I bought two years ago in Nov with under 7000 miles) . I installed a new battery in January, and just had it load tested resulting in a healthy status. Also, all fuses appear to be intact and functional. Lastly, I performed a diode test on the Voltage Regulator/rectifier having had bad experience with failure on my last bike, a Triumph Sprint ST, but it appears sound.
Any suggestions on what might be the problem or next steps I should take in troubleshooting? Thanks in advance!
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Check that all bolts on the battery earth cable are fully tight.
The C14 needs a solid earth connection so check both ends of the earth cable.
Loose connections and corrosion on the connections are common.
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Ignore any / all error codes shown as they are byproducts of the base problem, and that problem is either a bad battery or (more likely) poor contact on the battery cables. Remove the battery, then the cables and clean both the battery posts as well as the cable ends. I prefer to do this with a wire brush as that does not leave any grit behind which can cause further problems. Then check the battery cable connection to the frame; this is often corroded and a typical cause of what you are describing.
Best of luck but the above should clear up your problem.
Brian
Hello all,
Been a lurker for a while, but am having a problem with my 2011 that I'm hoping to get some feedback with. Long story short, stopped for gas on the way to work and when attempting to start the bike it acted as if the battery was dead (thumbing the starter cause the instrument panel to dim and throw various errors about FI, Immobilizer and KTRC…unfortunately I noticed no error code #). It's done this before, but usually switching it off and waiting a second or two it would fire up normally. No go this time and progressively got worse the more times I retried; I believe that at this point I was just draining the battery. Eventually I got a tow and the bike is now sitting in my garage on the trickle charger.
Since I’ve had it home, the behavior has changed a bit. When it was first fully charged the dash would light up normally (both left red and oil light, dials would spin, etc), but once I hit the ignition switch I’d get nothing but a rapid clicking noise coming from the tank area and an alternating errors on the display: KTRC and K-ACT ABS error.
Strangely, since getting the battery tested (it’s good) the bike is now acting differently. Now when I turn it on the display takes a moment before illuminating and pressing the starter I hear a click and the dash goes dark with only the oil light faintly illuminated (along with Neutral). Turning off the key nob and back on repeats the same behavior.
For the record, the bike is a 2011 with 22k some odd miles (I bought two years ago in Nov with under 7000 miles) . I installed a new battery in January, and just had it load tested resulting in a healthy status. Also, all fuses appear to be intact and functional. Lastly, I performed a diode test on the Voltage Regulator/rectifier having had bad experience with failure on my last bike, a Triumph Sprint ST, but it appears sound.
Any suggestions on what might be the problem or next steps I should take in troubleshooting? Thanks in advance!
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Could also be a bad multiple ground connector in the wiring harness. I've seen those cause trouble as well.
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I had the exact same problem. Battery tested good with multimeter. Put it on a load tester and was still good. Tried again and it dropped to 4.7 volts. Next load test was again good. Internal fault. New battery fixed it.
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I wonder how the OP made out?
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When you help Lurkers, they do not have the decency to report back
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True enough. Not that I mind, just that it would be nice to see if the person with the problem resolved it and what was the actual cause.
Brian
When you help Lurkers, they do not have the decency to report back
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I don’t get on here near as much as I did when I first got my Connie. I was coming on here to ask basically the same question as OP. I went to go for a short ride yesterday and when I hit the starter everything went completely dead. Shutting off the key reset it but it repeated this behavior. I figured low battery so this afternoon I hooked up my charger but it wasn’t showing any current draw. I checked battery with a volt meter and it showed 14.4v on the charger and 13.8v by itself. I know the negative cable grounds right by the battery. Can you give me locations elsewhere on the bike I should check/clean? I was thinking maybe at the starter could use a cleaning. VirginiaJim mentioned a multiple ground connector in the harness. Can you point me to this area. Maybe I disturbed something earlier in the year when I had to work on my ABS unit?
Thanks, Matt
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With no load, you can't determine the true state of the battery with just a volt meter, it will just show the "surface charge". Press the starter and "poof."
It is good to start by cleaning/inspecting/tightening the battery connectors and grounds first. The main grounds are all right there to the right of the battery area on the frame. If that doesn't do it, and it won't charge, the battery is likely bad. You will have to remove it and take it someplace with a battery tester that throws a load on it to really test it. Or, if it is older than 4-5 years, just expect it is bad without testing (save the energy/time) and get a new one.
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The battery was new in March/April. I was trying figure out some way to load it to test it. I may have an idea I came up with while typing this. I’ll figure out if it works shortly and report back on what I find.
Matt
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The main failure points for the C-14's main electrical system are the two connections to the battery, and the two heavy ground lines connected to the frame just in front of the battery box. All four can be looked at / cleaned and tightened w/out removing any fairing or anything else.
There are internal ground clusters 'here and there' around the bike but I have not heard of any of those failing in any way. They are crimped and sealed connections and so are not subject to either mechanical loosening or corrosion that the exposed connections on and around the battery are.
Best of luck.
Brian
I don’t get on here near as much as I did when I first got my Connie. I was coming on here to ask basically the same question as OP. I went to go for a short ride yesterday and when I hit the starter everything went completely dead. Shutting off the key reset it but it repeated this behavior. I figured low battery so this afternoon I hooked up my charger but it wasn’t showing any current draw. I checked battery with a volt meter and it showed 14.4v on the charger and 13.8v by itself. I know the negative cable grounds right by the battery. Can you give me locations elsewhere on the bike I should check/clean? I was thinking maybe at the starter could use a cleaning. VirginiaJim mentioned a multiple ground connector in the harness. Can you point me to this area. Maybe I disturbed something earlier in the year when I had to work on my ABS unit?
Thanks, Matt
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I don’t know how much load I put on it but it wasn’t much, probably less than 1/2 amp. It immediately dropped to about 8.8 volts so it must have a dead cell in it. I guess I’ll be heading to the bike shop for a new battery on Wednesday after work.
This one is a Yuasa which I thought was pretty decent. Other preferred batteries?
Thanks, Matt
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I don’t know how much load I put on it but it wasn’t much, probably less than 1/2 amp. It immediately dropped to about 8.8 volts so it must have a dead cell in it.
Yep :)
Sometimes it doesn't take a lot of load. I will test a battery voltage by connecting the largest 12V incandecent bulb I can find lying around. But that is still not enough load for many battery problems.
I guess I’ll be heading to the bike shop for a new battery on Wednesday after work.
This one is a Yuasa which I thought was pretty decent. Other preferred batteries?
Nothing is what it used to be. Did you allow to battery to sit, discharged or low-charged for a long period of time? That can cause failure. If it sulfated some and since it is not old, it MIGHT be possible to "resurrect" the battery with a de-sulfating procedure. But since yours is SO new, it sounds like some other type of failure. You might/should have a warranty, but those often are useless because shipping charges, pro-rating, hassle, long waits, and risk make it not worth using (and they know it).
Until last time, I have always used Yuasa. This is what I bought last, a year ago, and the price is actually still the same (which is amazing):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E0GHUWU (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E0GHUWU)
YTX14-BS ATV Battery- Rechargeable, Factory sealed; free shipping, shipped AND sold by Amazon.
So far, it has worked fine, although it has a non-standard top. The Concours' top plastic piece will NOT snap down over it so I just left it loose. I do keep it on a trickle charger between rides (and typically ride 1 to 2 times a week most of the year).
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Yep :)
Sometimes it doesn't take a lot of load. I will test a battery voltage by connecting the largest 12V incandecent bulb I can find lying around. But that is still not enough load for many battery problems.
Nothing is what it used to be. Did you allow to battery to sit, discharged or low-charged for a long period of time? That can cause failure. If it sulfated some and since it is not old, it MIGHT be possible to "resurrect" the battery with a de-sulfating procedure. But since yours is SO new, it sounds like some other type of failure. You might/should have a warranty, but those often are useless because shipping charges, pro-rating, hassle, long waits, and risk make it not worth using (and they know it).
Until last time, I have always used Yuasa. This is what I bought last, a year ago, and the price is actually still the same (which is amazing):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E0GHUWU (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E0GHUWU)
YTX14-BS ATV Battery- Rechargeable, Factory sealed; free shipping, shipped AND sold by Amazon.
So far, it has worked fine, although it has a non-standard top. The Concours' top plastic piece will NOT snap down over it so I just left it loose. I do keep it on a trickle charger between rides (and typically ride 1 to 2 times a week most of the year).
That one is half of what I paid at local bike shop! It did sit for several months when I ran into the ABS issue and I did have to charge it to get it started then and once since. I may have hurt it by not keeping it topped off with a battery tender. I’ll look into de-sulphating procedure to see if it is salvageable but I’ll probably get another battery on the way. Best riding weather of the year will be here shortly!
Matt
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The main failure points for the C-14's main electrical system are the two connections to the battery, and the two heavy ground lines connected to the frame just in front of the battery box. All four can be looked at / cleaned and tightened w/out removing any fairing or anything else.
There are internal ground clusters 'here and there' around the bike but I have not heard of any of those failing in any way. They are crimped and sealed connections and so are not subject to either mechanical loosening or corrosion that the exposed connections on and around the battery are.
Best of luck.
Brian
I have heard of those ground clusters corroding and having issues but it's typically in a non-dry environment such as the British Isles or near a coast.
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I have heard of those ground clusters corroding and having issues but it's typically in a non-dry environment such as the British Isles or near a coast.
Not much of that here in Indiana😁
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Well, I live near a coast (less than 10 miles from the Atlantic) and have not heard of any ground clusters failing or giving trouble.
So much for 'what we have heard'. Anybody got any actual data?
Brian
I have heard of those ground clusters corroding and having issues but it's typically in a non-dry environment such as the British Isles or near a coast.
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A member on the cog site, Just Cliff, had trouble he traced to one or more of the ground clusters.
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Reported to the UK forum at least once or twice. I would also think they may be more susceptible to this the farther north you go.
And no, Brian. I'm not making this up...LOL.
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If we are talking about the loose blocks in the bike's harness, that is amazing. Japanese connectors and their associated terminals and seals are just excellent and virtually bullet proof.
If there are star grounding points anywhere on the bike where two or more ground wires come together by getting fastened to the frame then it is more understandable. Anything screwed to aluminum is always a target for oxidation, and it seems on the C-14, at least some of them are found loose (though I wonder if they loosened after ass'y as I have never found one I tightened to be loose later).
Anyway, if it does happen, I believe it is extremely rare and possibly a factory ass'y fault rather than something that developed over time. The loose / corroded connectors around the battery are quite common though and I would always recommend people start there when chasing any electrical gremlins.
Brian
A member on the cog site, Just Cliff, had trouble he traced to one or more of the ground clusters.
Reported to the UK forum at least once or twice. I would also think they may be more susceptible to this the farther north you go.
And no, Brian. I'm not making this up...LOL.
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The main failure points for the C-14's main electrical system are the two connections to the battery, and the two heavy ground lines connected to the frame just in front of the battery box. All four can be looked at / cleaned and tightened w/out removing any fairing or anything else.
Just so any newbies that might come along aren't confused, there is some stuff that needs to be removed. To get at the ground to frame problem (I say that because that is the usual culprit when C14 electrical gremlins pop up on a good battery) you need to remove the plastic battery cover on the right side of the bike. One screw for that. To access both battery terminals you need to remove the inner metal battery cover. 4 screws for that.
I went searching for the post from Justcliff and couldn't find it. I do recall it as well so I'm sure it's either over there or here but I'm not having any luck. The forum over there has been "updated" and Justcliff is now just that, "Cliff" so if you search try his new name even though when he was quoted it still shows up as Justcliff. We need Cliff ...er...Justcliff to come set us straight here and give us a link to his post.
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Good point and yes, the battery covers (one plastic fairing type, one cast aluminum and retained as Marty points out) have to be removed. To clarify, what I meant is that the user does not have to remove any pieces of actual fairing but there is a battery cover, as Marty mentions.
Also, quite a few people have stripped the four cap screws that hold on that aluminum cover; the screws are held in with that nasty permanent thread locking 'stuff' (yeah, that's the right word ::) ) that Kawasaki loves and uses as a weapon against the purchasers of their products. Add to that that the screws use a sub- sized hex wrench and are the wrench hex is quite shallow and you have a recipe for a bad situation Kawasaki recommends that any fasteners that have that red thread locker on them be replaced with new fasteners, which come with the evil thread locker already applied but I would suggest re- using the hardware and using a touch of anti- seize on them to prevent problems in the future.
If there is a thread about a failed ground cluster (yep, one can add words to that.....) I would love to read it. And pictures would be outstanding. It could be that the common blocks are not true connectors and are not waterproof as are virtually all the other connectors all over the bike. One of the things that the Japanese vehicle manufacturers really shine at, and always have in my experience, is wiring overall and especially connectors specifically. US autos have improved tremendously in maybe the last two or three decades but earlier versions were downright awful regarding electrics IMO. As to the group grounding blocks, I have never had one opened personally and so am just assuming they are of a similar quality to the rest of the electrics on the bike.
Brian
Just so any newbies that might come along aren't confused, there is some stuff that needs to be removed. To get at the ground to frame problem (I say that because that is the usual culprit when C14 electrical gremlins pop up on a good battery) you need to remove the plastic battery cover on the right side of the bike. One screw for that. To access both battery terminals you need to remove the inner metal battery cover. 4 screws for that.
I went searching for the post from Justcliff and couldn't find it. I do recall it as well so I'm sure it's either over there or here but I'm not having any luck. The forum over there has been "updated" and Justcliff is now just that, "Cliff" so if you search try his new name even though when he was quoted it still shows up as Justcliff. We need Cliff ...er...Justcliff to come set us straight here and give us a link to his post.
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Just so any newbies that might come along aren't confused, there is some stuff that needs to be removed. To get at the ground to frame problem (I say that because that is the usual culprit when C14 electrical gremlins pop up on a good battery) you need to remove the plastic battery cover on the right side of the bike. One screw for that. To access both battery terminals you need to remove the inner metal battery cover. 4 screws for that.
I went searching for the post from Justcliff and couldn't find it. I do recall it as well so I'm sure it's either over there or here but I'm not having any luck. The forum over there has been "updated" and Justcliff is now just that, "Cliff" so if you search try his new name even though when he was quoted it still shows up as Justcliff. We need Cliff ...er...Justcliff to come set us straight here and give us a link to his post.
I took a look at the new site and it looks like the search box is unavailable unless you submit. Am I missing something?
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I took a look at the new site and it looks like the search box is unavailable unless you submit. Am I missing something?
So many ways to answer this...
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:facepalm:
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I took a look at the new site and it looks like the search box is unavailable unless you submit. Am I missing something?
So many ways to answer this...
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Pinkie "You must submit! You must submit!"
(https://i.imgflip.com/4aa5jt.jpg)
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:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
And 3 stars to Mr. Pink!
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Well, I live near a coast (less than 10 miles from the Atlantic) and have not heard of any ground clusters failing or giving trouble.
So much for 'what we have heard'. Anybody got any actual data?
Brian
I had a ground block corrode several years ago. It caused my headlights to go out, my high beam & blinker indicators to burn continuously, also the blinkers burned dim & steady.
Best I can remember there are 11 of these blocks in the harness. The one that caused me problems was right by the air filter access. You can feel the little square lumps in the harness. You have to cut the wrapping open to see them.
I simply cut out the block & soldered the wires together then put a wire nut on & taped it up good.
My bike is stored in a semi climate controlled building & primarily used for travel. It has been ridden 10's of thousands of miles in the rain.
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Thanks for posting this (or re- posting it)! Very interesting.... That looks like one- half of a connector that does not have the other half connected to it. ?
Very disappointing on a Japanese bike. The one thing Japanese mfg's have always commanded, at least IMO and IME, is wiring. What you show there is more typical of American wiring, unfortunately.
Again, thanks!
Brian
I had a ground block corrode several years ago. It caused my headlights to go out, my high beam & blinker indicators to burn continuously, also the blinkers burned dim & steady.
Best I can remember there are 11 of these blocks in the harness. The one that caused me problems was right by the air filter access. You can feel the little square lumps in the harness. You have to cut the wrapping open to see them.
I simply cut out the block & soldered the wires together then put a wire nut on & taped it up good.
My bike is stored in a semi climate controlled building & primarily used for travel. It has been ridden 10's of thousands of miles in the rain.
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Thanks Cliff!
I remember seeing that second photo, I thought at the time you had pried it open and found the corrosion (that is, taken something besides the tape off). I wish I could find your original post
I'm sure it had some descriptive details of your whole ordeal troubleshooting this.
..anyway..back to the OP..(Matt,.. remember him?)..
This one is a Yuasa which I thought was pretty decent. Other preferred batteries?
Thanks, Matt
I'm probably too late, but when I was researching for a replacement battery I decided I wanted the best non-Lithium
battery I could find. Since the original was 14 AH I was determined to get one the same and all the Yuasa's I could find
were only 12 AH even though most had a numeral 14 in their designation the specs said only 12 AH. I found one at a local Battery+ store
that was 14 AH (Duracell brand?) but I was going to have to modify the plastic battery cover to get it to fit so I returned it and
went to check the price on the factory original Furukawa FTZ14-BS,12V 14AH at the local dealer and it was cheaper than the one at Battery plus.
It will cost a little more than all the Yuasa's that pop up in a search, but if you can find one, I think it's worth it.
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Thanks for posting this (or re- posting it)! Very interesting.... That looks like one- half of a connector that does not have the other half connected to it. ?
Very disappointing on a Japanese bike. The one thing Japanese mfg's have always commanded, at least IMO and IME, is wiring. What you show there is more typical of American wiring, unfortunately.
Again, thanks!
Brian
My 99 VFR800 had a ground cluster like that and the VFRDiscussion forum alerted me to it as a potential cause of multiple intermittent electrical gremlins. This one was also buried in tape and had 12 wires. However, it was not corroded in my case and not the cause of my gremlins. The eventual fix was a total wiring harness replacement.
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I ordered one of the batteries off Amazon that Maxtog linked to. It came in last night and I installed it this morning. I cleaned all the cable connections in the process. Bike fired right up like it is supposed to. I guess I will have to be a bit more careful about keeping it on a battery tender. I checked back and this battery was bought last year in March. It was the battery for my wife’s Boulevard that I had to replace back in April.
I better order a couple decent tenders for both bikes.
Thanks, Matt
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I ordered one of the batteries off Amazon that Maxtog linked to. It came in last night and I installed it this morning. I cleaned all the cable connections in the process. Bike fired right up like it is supposed to. I guess I will have to be a bit more careful about keeping it on a battery tender.
Batteries are frustrating because the companies change hands and the specs keep changing. I don't think they are made as well as they used to be, on top of that. So the "major" brands seem to be a potluck now in a market also flooded with "no name" brands. All we have to go by are others' recommendations..... and by the time enough years have gone by to really know it was a good battery, you can't find it anymore, or it has changed. Grrrrr.
Did the one you were sent also have the strange top that prevents the plastic retainer from mating properly? Not a big whoop either way, just curious if that changed.
As for trickle chargers, I am using a Battery Tender Jr.. One of them failed after a few years and I bought another of the same type. It does seem to work to help keep the battery in top condition. I have a cord leave the garage through the wall and lays next to the Cycle Shell where the Concours lives. I just plug it in every time I park it, regardless of when I plan to next ride (so it is just an automatic thing for me). Not much of a hassle for the peace-of-mind it provides.
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I have an ‘09 so my battery top is held on with a rubber strap over the battery. The tops fit like it always has.
Matt
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I have an ‘09 so my battery top is held on with a rubber strap over the battery. The tops fit like it always has.
For clarity's sake, although true that the Gen 1s have a different battery hold down system, there still should be a battery
cover under the strap at least as supplied by the factory. I only mention that as down the road some buying used gen 1 bikes may come here looking for information.
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..also for clarity...
..anyway..back to the OP..(Matt,.. remember him?)..
..I mistakenly referred to Matt as the OP, sorry about that. Matt was just an interested party, turns out that courtney985 was the OP and hasn't logged in since
the one post over a month ago. ...
and now as I go down the original post I see a spam link at the bottom, he really sold it this time. We've been had guys....but we showed him as we made it useful anyway. :banana
I'd be willing to bet that if we searched we would find that exact text somewhere else on this forum or the other one and he just copied and pasted it and added his spam link at the bottom.
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When I had this grounding trouble I was out of state, luckily I had no cranking problems because I rode it on home.
I do know of a 2009 with the same lighting issues I had & the same grounding block corrosion. I also had a COG member from MO call a couple weeks ago quizzing me about this. He has the same cranking & similar lighting issues as OP. He has not updated me on what he found as of yet.
Appears to be somewhat rare, but a few cases out there.
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Found it, spammer copied and posted from here (second paragraph): http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=21720.msg297678#msg297678 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=21720.msg297678#msg297678)
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and now as I go down the original post I see a spam link at the bottom, he really sold it this time. We've been had guys....but we showed him as we made it useful anyway. :banana
:)
Yep, we made it a useful thread. So many posts, impossible to remember.
Strange that anyone would bother to go to all the trouble, just to have a single hidden link. More than a "bot" at work, since the post was slightly edited.
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Make sure that the battery charger you're using is good for the type of battery it is such as AGM, lithium, or standard lead acid. Using the wrong one can shorten a battery's life.
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Make sure that the battery charger you're using is good for the type of battery it is such as AGM, lithium, or standard lead acid. Using the wrong one can shorten a battery's life.
Well now that we have your attention, shouldn't you be removing that link in the OP's post or....is it harmless just sitting there?
..as for making use of a thread started wrongly.........about Battery tenders...after having a battery go bad even though it was on a BT Jr. with a green light on, I don't use those
any more, I've decided to use only the larger anti sulfating ones from OptiMate and Xtreme.
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I'm at my best whilst imbibing my favorite beer, or scotch, or whisky. Not doing any of them at the moment but I'll see...
Update: Got rid of it but it was a bit strange in that I couldn't modify it directly. It was hidden. Anyway it's gone now. Had to edit one of Brian's posts as it was copied over when he quoted it.
Update2: User has been dealt with.. :battle: :cannon: :shoot: :1DeadBanana
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I'm at my best whilst imbibing my favorite beer, or scotch, or whisky. Not doing any of them at the moment but I'll see...
Update: Got rid of it but it was a bit strange in that I couldn't modify it directly. It was hidden. Anyway it's gone now. Had to edit one of Brian's posts as it was copied over when he quoted it.
Update2: User has been dealt with.. :battle: :cannon: :shoot: :1DeadBanana
pics?
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Sorry, too graphic.
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Whatdidyado, make him ride that cruz- ah? Nah, that is a fate too cruel even for spammers.....
;D ;)
Brian
Sorry, too graphic.
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Sorry, too graphic.
Whatdidyado, make him ride that cruz- ah? Nah, that is a fate too cruel even for spammers.....
;D ;)
Brian
Worse really, makes 'em polish the studs, and comb the fringe on his Injun, then just when they think they are finished with their punishment he makes them re-braid the get back whips.
They don't come back.
Personally I feel that such a sight should be saved for the arena with the other blood letting, or not shown at all.
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I should have checked his IP out...Thailand. That link was somewhat difficult to remove as it disappeared in edit mode.