Author Topic: Bike is dead  (Read 2650 times)

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2020, 08:31:43 AM »
If we are talking about the loose blocks in the bike's harness, that is amazing. Japanese connectors and their associated terminals and seals are just excellent and virtually bullet proof.

If there are star grounding points anywhere on the bike where two or more ground wires come together by getting fastened to the frame then it is more understandable. Anything screwed to aluminum is always a target for oxidation, and it seems on the C-14, at least some of them are found loose (though I wonder if they loosened after ass'y as I have never found one I tightened to be loose later).

Anyway, if it does happen, I believe it is extremely rare and possibly a factory ass'y fault rather than something that developed over time. The loose / corroded connectors around the battery are quite common though and I would always recommend people start there when chasing any electrical gremlins.

Brian

A member on the cog site, Just Cliff, had trouble he traced to one or more of the ground clusters.

Reported to the UK forum at least once or twice.  I would also think they may be more susceptible to this the farther north you go.


And no, Brian.  I'm not making this up...LOL.
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Offline just gone

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2020, 10:55:46 AM »
The main failure points for the C-14's main electrical system are the two connections to the battery, and the two heavy ground lines connected to the frame just in front of the battery box. All four can be looked at / cleaned and tightened w/out removing any fairing or anything else.

Just so any newbies that might come along aren't confused, there is some stuff that needs to be removed. To get at the ground to frame problem (I say that because that is the usual culprit when C14 electrical gremlins pop up on a good battery) you need to remove the plastic battery cover on the right side of the bike. One screw for that. To access both battery terminals you need to remove the inner metal battery cover. 4 screws for that.

I went searching for the post from Justcliff and couldn't find it. I do recall it as well so I'm sure it's either over there or here but I'm not having any luck. The forum over there has been "updated" and Justcliff is now just that, "Cliff" so if you search try his new name even though when he was quoted it still shows up as Justcliff. We need Cliff ...er...Justcliff to come set us straight here and give us a link to his post.


Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2020, 11:12:16 AM »
Good point and yes, the battery covers (one plastic fairing type, one cast aluminum and retained as Marty points out) have to be removed. To clarify, what I meant is that the user does not have to remove any pieces of actual fairing but there is a battery cover, as Marty mentions.

Also, quite a few people have stripped the four cap screws that hold on that aluminum cover; the screws are held in with that nasty permanent thread locking 'stuff' (yeah, that's the right word  ::) ) that Kawasaki loves and uses as a weapon against the purchasers of their products. Add to that that the screws use a sub- sized hex wrench and are the wrench hex is quite shallow and you have a recipe for a bad situation Kawasaki recommends that any fasteners that have that red thread locker on them be replaced with new fasteners, which come with the evil thread locker already applied but I would suggest re- using the hardware and using a touch of anti- seize on them to prevent problems in the future.

If there is a thread about a failed ground cluster (yep, one can add words to that.....) I would love to read it. And pictures would be outstanding. It could be that the common blocks are not true connectors and are not waterproof as are virtually all the other connectors all over the bike. One of the things that the Japanese vehicle manufacturers really shine at, and always have in my experience, is wiring overall and especially connectors specifically. US autos have improved tremendously in maybe the last two or three decades but earlier versions were downright awful regarding electrics IMO. As to the group grounding blocks, I have never had one opened personally and so am just assuming they are of a similar quality to the rest of the electrics on the bike.

Brian

Just so any newbies that might come along aren't confused, there is some stuff that needs to be removed. To get at the ground to frame problem (I say that because that is the usual culprit when C14 electrical gremlins pop up on a good battery) you need to remove the plastic battery cover on the right side of the bike. One screw for that. To access both battery terminals you need to remove the inner metal battery cover. 4 screws for that.

I went searching for the post from Justcliff and couldn't find it. I do recall it as well so I'm sure it's either over there or here but I'm not having any luck. The forum over there has been "updated" and Justcliff is now just that, "Cliff" so if you search try his new name even though when he was quoted it still shows up as Justcliff. We need Cliff ...er...Justcliff to come set us straight here and give us a link to his post.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2020, 12:54:32 PM »
Just so any newbies that might come along aren't confused, there is some stuff that needs to be removed. To get at the ground to frame problem (I say that because that is the usual culprit when C14 electrical gremlins pop up on a good battery) you need to remove the plastic battery cover on the right side of the bike. One screw for that. To access both battery terminals you need to remove the inner metal battery cover. 4 screws for that.

I went searching for the post from Justcliff and couldn't find it. I do recall it as well so I'm sure it's either over there or here but I'm not having any luck. The forum over there has been "updated" and Justcliff is now just that, "Cliff" so if you search try his new name even though when he was quoted it still shows up as Justcliff. We need Cliff ...er...Justcliff to come set us straight here and give us a link to his post.
I took a look at the new site and it looks like the search box is unavailable unless you submit. Am I missing something?

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2020, 02:09:14 PM »
I took a look at the new site and it looks like the search box is unavailable unless you submit. Am I missing something?


So many ways to answer this...
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Offline gPink

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2020, 02:36:21 PM »
 :facepalm:

Offline just gone

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2020, 02:44:21 PM »
I took a look at the new site and it looks like the search box is unavailable unless you submit. Am I missing something?


So many ways to answer this...
  :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Pinkie "You must submit! You must submit!"




Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2020, 04:37:32 PM »
 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:


And 3 stars to Mr. Pink!
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Offline Justcliff

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2020, 06:31:57 PM »
Well, I live near a coast (less than 10 miles from the Atlantic) and have not heard of any ground clusters failing or giving trouble.

So much for 'what we have heard'. Anybody got any actual data?

Brian

I had a ground block corrode several years ago. It caused my headlights to go out, my high beam & blinker indicators to burn continuously, also the blinkers burned dim & steady.

Best I can remember there are 11 of these blocks in the harness. The one that caused me problems was right by the air filter access. You can feel the little square lumps in the harness. You have to cut the wrapping open to see them. 

I simply cut out the block & soldered the wires together then put a wire nut on & taped it up good.

My bike is stored in a semi climate controlled building & primarily used for travel. It has been ridden 10's of thousands of miles in the rain.

Cliff

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2020, 07:22:03 PM »
Thanks for posting this (or re- posting it)! Very interesting....  That looks like one- half of a connector that does not have the other half connected to it. ?

Very disappointing on a Japanese bike. The one thing Japanese mfg's have always commanded, at least IMO and IME, is wiring. What you show there is more typical of American wiring, unfortunately.

Again, thanks!

Brian

I had a ground block corrode several years ago. It caused my headlights to go out, my high beam & blinker indicators to burn continuously, also the blinkers burned dim & steady.

Best I can remember there are 11 of these blocks in the harness. The one that caused me problems was right by the air filter access. You can feel the little square lumps in the harness. You have to cut the wrapping open to see them. 

I simply cut out the block & soldered the wires together then put a wire nut on & taped it up good.

My bike is stored in a semi climate controlled building & primarily used for travel. It has been ridden 10's of thousands of miles in the rain.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline just gone

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2020, 08:28:15 PM »
Thanks Cliff!

I remember seeing that second photo, I thought at the time you had pried it open and found the corrosion (that is, taken something besides the tape off). I wish I could find your original post
I'm sure it had some descriptive details of your whole ordeal troubleshooting this.

 ..anyway..back to the OP..(Matt,.. remember him?)..

This one is a Yuasa which I thought was pretty decent. Other preferred batteries?

Thanks, Matt

I'm probably too late, but when I was researching for a replacement battery I decided I wanted the best non-Lithium
battery I could find. Since the original was 14 AH I was determined to get one the same and all the Yuasa's I could find
were only 12 AH even though most had a numeral 14 in their designation the specs said only 12 AH. I found one at a local Battery+ store
 that was 14 AH (Duracell brand?) but I was going to have to modify the plastic battery cover to get it to fit so I returned it and
 went to check the price on the factory original  Furukawa FTZ14-BS,12V 14AH at the local dealer and it was cheaper than the one at Battery plus.
It will cost a little more than all the Yuasa's that pop up in a search, but if you can find one, I think it's worth it.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2020, 09:39:21 AM by fartymarty »

Offline lather

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2020, 06:32:56 AM »
Thanks for posting this (or re- posting it)! Very interesting....  That looks like one- half of a connector that does not have the other half connected to it. ?

Very disappointing on a Japanese bike. The one thing Japanese mfg's have always commanded, at least IMO and IME, is wiring. What you show there is more typical of American wiring, unfortunately.

Again, thanks!

Brian
My 99 VFR800 had a ground cluster like that and the VFRDiscussion forum alerted me to it as a potential cause of multiple intermittent electrical gremlins. This one was also buried in tape and had 12 wires. However, it was not corroded in my case and not the cause of my gremlins. The eventual fix was a total wiring harness replacement.
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Offline basmntdweller

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2020, 07:48:02 AM »
I ordered one of the batteries off Amazon that Maxtog linked to. It came in last night and I installed it this morning. I cleaned all the cable connections in the process. Bike fired right up like it is supposed to. I guess I will have to be a bit more careful about keeping it on a battery tender. I checked back and this battery was bought last year in March. It was the battery for my wife’s Boulevard that I had to replace back in April.
I better order a couple decent tenders for both bikes.

Thanks, Matt
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2020, 08:13:45 AM »
I ordered one of the batteries off Amazon that Maxtog linked to. It came in last night and I installed it this morning. I cleaned all the cable connections in the process. Bike fired right up like it is supposed to. I guess I will have to be a bit more careful about keeping it on a battery tender.

Batteries are frustrating because the companies change hands and the specs keep changing.  I don't think they are made as well as they used to be, on top of that.  So the "major" brands seem to be a potluck now in a market also flooded with "no name" brands.  All we have to go by are others' recommendations..... and by the time enough years have gone by to really know it was a good battery, you can't find it anymore, or it has changed.  Grrrrr.

Did the one you were sent also have the strange top that prevents the plastic retainer from mating properly?  Not a big whoop either way, just curious if that changed.

As for trickle chargers, I am using a Battery Tender Jr..  One of them failed after a few years and I bought another of the same type.  It does seem to work to help keep the battery in top condition.  I have a cord leave the garage through the wall and lays next to the Cycle Shell where the Concours lives.  I just plug it in every time I park it, regardless of when I plan to next ride (so it is just an automatic thing for me).  Not much of a hassle for the peace-of-mind it provides.
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Offline basmntdweller

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2020, 09:39:16 AM »
I have an ‘09 so my battery top is held on with a rubber strap over the battery. The tops fit like it always has.

Matt
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'98 DR-350
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Offline just gone

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2020, 10:34:57 AM »
I have an ‘09 so my battery top is held on with a rubber strap over the battery. The tops fit like it always has.

For clarity's sake, although true that the Gen 1s have a different battery hold down system, there still should be a battery
cover under the strap at least as supplied by the factory. I only mention that as down the road some buying used gen 1 bikes may come here looking for information.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
..also for clarity...

 ..anyway..back to the OP..(Matt,.. remember him?)..


..I mistakenly referred to Matt as the OP, sorry about that. Matt was just an interested party, turns out that courtney985 was the OP and hasn't logged in since
the one post over a month ago. ...

and now as I go down the original post I see a spam link at the bottom, he really sold it this time. We've been had guys....but we showed him as we made it useful anyway.   :banana

I'd be willing to bet that if we searched we would find that exact text somewhere else on this forum or the other one and he just copied and pasted it and added his spam link at the bottom.

Offline Justcliff

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2020, 10:56:21 AM »
When I had this grounding trouble I was out of state, luckily I had no cranking problems because I rode it on home.

I do know of a 2009 with the same lighting issues I had & the same grounding block corrosion. I also had a COG member from MO call a couple weeks ago quizzing me about this. He has the same cranking & similar lighting issues as OP. He has not updated me on what he found as of yet.

Appears to be somewhat rare, but a few cases out there.
Cliff

2008 C14, 250,000 miles & counting!  2014 V-Strom 1000
IBA#66047

Offline just gone

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2020, 11:09:34 AM »
Found it, spammer copied and posted from here (second paragraph): http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=21720.msg297678#msg297678

Offline maxtog

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2020, 12:49:04 PM »
and now as I go down the original post I see a spam link at the bottom, he really sold it this time. We've been had guys....but we showed him as we made it useful anyway.   :banana

:)
Yep, we made it a useful thread.  So many posts, impossible to remember.

Strange that anyone would bother to go to all the trouble, just to have a single hidden link.   More than a "bot" at work, since the post was slightly edited.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Bike is dead
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2020, 01:22:48 PM »
Make sure that the battery charger you're using is good for the type of battery it is such as AGM, lithium, or standard lead acid.  Using the wrong one can shorten a battery's life.
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