1990 starter switch solenoid with momentary bypasswitch

[gogiburn]

1990 concours.Switch on handle bar shot I bought a momentary switch and wired it to the connections on the solenoid.I blew a 10 -20- and 30 amp fuse .Some one suggested it has to be wired to one of the 2 wire connector that sits on the side of the solenoid.I am useless when it comes to electrics There is a red and yellow wire with a black and yellow wire in the connector on the side of the solenoid. How do I wire the momentary switch properly so I can use a 30 am fuse inline to protect the circuit? Please also reply to ripcbx1 at yahoo com
 

[T Cro ®]

Yeah if you connected the switch to both of the wires on the solenoid that became a dead short when you closed the switch.... Wire your switch to the yellow with red striped wire and to the (+) positive side of the battery. That will work as a remote starter switch.

[gogiburn]

Well Bob was right,has to be in the safety cut outs.Finally have a day to work outside in.Went out and replaced the Jbox Didn't help.Pulled the clutch switch and sprayed it with WD no good. Took the bike off the side stand in Neutral and bike started.Put it back on side stand and bike started?To wet in driveway to put on centerstand to remove side stand to get to switch as I sink into the dirt just standing by the dirt.

[Daytona_Mike]

Do you have a  volt meter? It is way easier if you have one.

[gogiburn]

why would it be easier with a volt meter?

[RFH87_Connie]

From your last description it sounds like a bad clutch switch.  Jump it with a piece of wire to temporaly bypass it.  It should (as you demonstrated) start in neutral with the side stand down always.

It will not start with the clutch out and in gear - thats a dangerous situation.  The clutch switch prevents this.  The only time the bike will start in gear is with the clutch pulled in.

If you try to take off with the sidestand down (let the clutch out) it will stall because it is in gear with the clutch open and the stand down.  If this disabled, it is an easy way to tip over pretty hard if the side stand is still down - yet another dangerous situation.

Clutch switches are less than $20 at most dealers - sometimes in stock because they fit many bikes.  Mine went bad a week after I got the bike.  It would onlt start in neutral until I bypassed it while waiting for the new part.  I've replaced quite a few on other bikes too over the years.

[gogiburn]

I tried to jump the clutch switch but there are 3 connectors not 2 on the Connie,all my other bikes have 2 so I'm not sure which connectors hae to be jumped the one i did didn't work

[MAN OF BLUES]

There's only 2 wires on the harness side, you can make a jumper using a crimp spade lug by twisting the blades 90* and insert it in the 2 outer positions on that plug to effect the jumper.
As for the sidestand switch, they seldom need to be removed, simply get down there and insert the red snooter tube that comes with the WD40 up under the rubber boot, and douche it out .... thay works.

[Daytona_Mike]

The clutch has 3 wires  at the harness. The brake has 2.
The problem wont be in the  side stand.  That is for the coils only.
I am looking at 2 different  schematics for the starter  solenoid ground path. The one I have shows the coil side of the solenoid wired directly to ground which I think is  not correct.

why would it be easier with a volt meter?

gogiburn, if you have a digital meter, turn it to OHM's  and hook one wire to the negative post of the battery (or any bare metal part of the frame) and the other wire to the ground side of the coil and verify it says zero.  The picture above shows the start solenoid with 2 wires  coming out the top. The BK/Y is the ground. (black with yellow stripe)
Make sure it is in neutral and try pulling the clutch in and out and tell me if you see continuity to chassis ground (zero on the meter)
If you do then we will work on and fix the 12volt  side.

[gogiburn]

mo pic to see but everything seems to be working fine now

[Daytona_Mike]

oh good , glad to hear it.. ride safe!

[gogiburn]

thanks guys,almost didn't matter went down today slid on gravel had now have three butt chicks thanks to my hip blowing up.thank God fpor skip holtons crash guards

[MAN OF BLUES]

The clutch has 3 wires  at the harness. The brake has 2.
The problem wont be in the  side stand.  That is for the coils only.
.....

    I beg to differ, please look closely at the inline connector on the clutch interupt, and note there are only 2 wires (being used) on the downstream side. yel/gr & l gr, disconnect the plug insert a jumper between the 2 points where the wires exist, shorting those together allows the same as if the clutch was pulled in.

same for the sidestand interlock, with the connector unplugged, shorting all the connections on the plug together will emulate the stand being "up". (there are 3 positions, but only 2 wires exit to the harness)

[RFH87_Connie]

That's what I thought but I didn't have time to go look at mine.  Thanks MOB.  Sounds like he might be taking some time off of bike riding.  Hopefully he is OK.

[gogiburn]

Very sore today but not as sore as I thought,at least I can walk more comfortably then last night.Also became aware of shoulder damage.Depending on weather I should be ok to ride tomorrow.

[Daytona_Mike]

    I beg to differ, please look closely at the inline connector on the clutch interupt, and note there are only 2 wires (being used) on the downstream side. yel/gr & l gr, disconnect the plug insert a jumper between the 2 points where the wires exist, shorting those together allows the same as if the clutch was pulled in.

same for the sidestand interlock, with the connector unplugged, shorting all the connections on the plug together will emulate the stand being "up". (there are 3 positions, but only 2 wires exit to the harness)

Maybe I am not looking at the correct place but it would be good to know where to jumper.
 gogiburn and I are looking at the connection harness  right at the switch and according to 2 different schematics and the pictures I count 3 wires.
By the way  you are correct, only two wires at the side stand which I  did not disagree.




Oh ok MOB.. I see what your saying.. 'and insert it in the 2 outer positions on that plug to effect the jumper'
Thanks.. I got it.
What I find interesting is how Kawasaki provides 3 different ground paths for the  Ignitor (coils) one of which is the side stand (which I do not see any connection from the side stand switch  to the  starter motor circuit. A diode blocks it).
So if your riding along in gear ( 1st ground path broken)  with the clutch out (2nd ground path broken) the ONLY ground path to keep the coils running is through the side stand. So if I hit a big bump and the side stand pops out for just a second  the engine looses  spark.

Hmm.. I better check that side stand  spring.

[MAN OF BLUES]

Oh ok MOB.. I see what your saying.. 'and insert it in the 2 outer positions on that plug to effect the jumper'
Thanks.. I got it.

I have to look at my bike, which won't be till tonight,  I may have erred saying the outer 2 wires, I know it was jumped using a crimpon tye spade lug with the prongs twisted, making me think it was inserted to tie 2 adjacent wires together, that is likely the black wire, and the Blk/yel one in that plug. That plug/harness splits off again further from the switch, and the Blk/Yel wire heads over to the 9 pin harness, when I was looking at the schema, I missed the 3 wires at the switch plug.
The Blk and Blk/red wires are normally connected when the clutch switch is attached (the switch is closed in that position), and when you pull the clutch, the switch ties Blk/Y to Blk.

.......
So if your riding along in gear ( 1st ground path broken)  with the clutch out (2nd ground path broken) the ONLY ground path to keep the coils running is through the side stand. So if I hit a big bump and the side stand pops out for just a second  the engine looses  spark.

Hmm.. I better check that side stand  spring.

I'm checking sumpi'n right now, but I have to say on the C10 once the engine is running, the sidestand position will make no difference in it continuing to run, it's just a starter interrupt, same as clutch switch, you can test this by starting the bike in neutral, disconnect both switches /connections, and shifting it into gear (WITH THE CLUTCH PULLED IN). it should make no difference. I believe you are getting a neutral thru the latched circuit in the jbox, and the ecu for that ground.

my old 88 (COGZilla) was in pieces when I got it, and the clutch switch plug was jumpered as I noted (switch was missing) I don't recall it having 3 wires, and the schematic shows 2 wires only at the harness plug, with the third terminating in a different plug...
hang tight.

HERE:
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2208762150015463693eIhVCM

[RFH87_Connie]

I'm checking sumpi'n right now, but I have to say on the C10 once the engine is running, the sidestand position will make no difference in it continuing to run

Maybe i'm misunderstanding you or my '87 is different.  If I let the clutch out to take off with the side stand down, the bike will cut off (and I think it is supposed to, that's why the side stand switch is there).  If I pull the clutch in first, I can then put the side stand down without the engine cutting off.  If I then let the clutch out with the side stand still down, it will stall.

[gogiburn]

yes thats how both of mine worked and my 2 250 ninjas only my 88 ex500 doesn't have the switch.

[Daytona_Mike]

yes, that is correct, the only ground path to keep the engine running is through the  side stand when it is up. If you pull the clutch in you provide a second ground path which keeps the engine running, the neutral switch is the 3rd ground path..
Put it another way, if your in gear (that ground is  gone) and your clutch is out (another ground disconnected) and your riding along  down the road the only ground path for the ignitor/ coils (which provides spark for the spark plugs) is through the side stand switch. So if you hit a bump and the side stand flicks out for a second the engine will stall (actually it wont stall, it just will not have any spark).
By what I see in all these different schematics is that the side stand has no effect whatsoever on the start relay (inside the J-box) or any part of the starter motor circuit so no need to look there if the engine will not crank.
Now for the 'why is there 3 wires?'  on the clutch switch and not 2? That is because in addition to providing a ground for the ignitor/coils/spark/plugs  it is also  used to 'latch on' (provides a ground path) for   the coil(relay coil) in the start relay (the one inside the j-box (for the starter motor). When the clutch is out it will latch that relay on only if the engine is in  neutral.
 When the  clutch lever is in, it will latch that (starter motor) relay on  directly to ground  even with the bike in gear (neutral switch bypass). Of course that (starter motor) coil will still need 12volts from your starter button before the engine will crank..  The schematic shown above  calls the clutch switch a ' Starter Lock Out' switch and it is showing it in  a Clutch Lever Out position. It does not show the Ignitor circuit but if you look at the Y/G wire in the picture,  that is one of the 3 grounds the Ignitor is hooked to.

Confused yet?  I am. How many times did I say starter and coil?