Author Topic: I thought KIPASS stranded me today, but I was wrong (Read 2298 times)

lather · « **on:** July 10, 2020, 03:47:25 PM »

On my way to Mt. Sterling KY for MSTA rally. Stopped for gas in Russleville KY. Pressed knob, it lit up I tunen to on but when I preessed start button nothing, display went blank. Walked to walmart got tools, voltmeter, sandpaper. Was going to clean up connections but immediately saw the negativce cable was broken at the teminal. Back to Walmart to buy a cable - automotive type but I made it fit. Nows I have power to kipass - screen lights up and dispaly indicates knob ready to turn but wont turn and thgen displays says immobiler error. Tried replacing fob battery as well as passive fob. same result or nothing at all New battery 13 volts.

Used my AMA roadsside assistance. Rep worked with me for 45 minutes to find a shop that said they would work on it. Towe3de to Lsot River Powersports in Bowling Green 32 mile away on AMA. Tech will look in the morning but I have little hope of a quick fix.

THis seems unlike anything I have seen here or other forum in 12 years.

Freddy · « **Reply #1 on:** July 10, 2020, 05:48:01 PM »

It's a poor earth or dud cell in battery problem.

VirginiaJim · « **Reply #2 on:** July 10, 2020, 05:58:58 PM »

Did you try hitting it (switch)? That worked both times with me.

lather · « **Reply #3 on:** July 10, 2020, 06:24:36 PM »

i hit it many times.

Freddy · « **Reply #4 on:** July 10, 2020, 06:26:28 PM »

It's not a KIPASS issue.

maxtog · « **Reply #5 on:** July 10, 2020, 07:18:40 PM »

Quote from: lather on July 10, 2020, 06:24:36 PM

i hit it many times.

LOL

lather · « **Reply #6 on:** July 10, 2020, 07:25:24 PM »

I believe the immobilizer error message means it IS a KIPAAS issue.

Freddy · « **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2020, 11:47:25 PM »

That's telling you the volts/battery/frame earths are/is faulty.

maxtog · « **Reply #8 on:** July 11, 2020, 06:16:49 AM »

Quote from: Freddy on July 10, 2020, 11:47:25 PM

That's telling you the volts/battery/frame earths are/is faulty.

Which is consistent with almost every other reported issue ever posted. Doesn't mean it can't be a dead computer, but that would be exceedingly rare.

The bike probably could have used some type of startup routine that measures critical voltages while placing a ramped up load, so it can stop and warn the user of a basic electrical problem (battery, terminals, grounds) before continuing the rest of the startup. I bet it could be done without delaying the startup much. The C14 seems particularly vulnerable to such issues- many of us have been stranded due to that exact issue (including me). I am curious, I think I will create a poll on it.

lather · « **Reply #9 on:** July 11, 2020, 06:24:39 AM »

The problem started with a faulty ground, a broken negative cable at the frame ground. But at that time there was no immobilzier message just a blank screen.

Now I have replaced the ground cable with a larger guage automotive one. It should now have a good ground. could the oversize cable be a problem?

maxtog · « **Reply #10 on:** July 11, 2020, 06:40:18 AM »

Quote from: lather on July 11, 2020, 06:24:39 AM

Now I have replaced the ground cable with a larger guage automotive one. It should now have a good ground. could the oversize cable be a problem?

I don't see how cable larger in diameter or current capacity (smaller gauge) could cause any issue- only if the connector(s) were not fitting well and making good contact.

Conrad · « **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2020, 06:57:23 AM »

What does the dash's voltmeter read?

I've never heard of a cable breaking the way that you described. Any idea what caused that?

maxtog · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2020, 07:08:26 AM »

Quote from: Conrad on July 11, 2020, 06:57:23 AM

What does the dash's voltmeter read?

I am not sure that will matter.

When the bike is not running, it indicates the unloaded voltage of the battery. With little/no load, it will not test the current-capacity of the cable nor the battery or connectors or anything else. If it reads low voltage with little/no load, that is almost certainly just a discharged battery.

When the bike IS running, the dash is only indicating the voltage of the charging system, which is always a higher voltage than the battery (or the battery would never charge).

This is why testing a battery really requires taking it out and throwing a huge load on it (like the starter would place). I am not sure how you can test the cables and battery in-place. You would need to know the split-second lowest voltage at the time the starter is running (and know what is or is not an acceptable reading).

lather · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2020, 10:29:06 AM »

Quote from: Conrad on July 11, 2020, 06:57:23 AM

What does the dash's voltmeter read?

I've never heard of a cable breaking the way that you described. Any idea what caused that?

all I am seeing on the dash display is immobiler error a key symbol and then goes blank.
I istalled an oversize battery and it stretched and put stress on the cable at the termin al

lather · « **Reply #14 on:** July 11, 2020, 10:32:49 AM »

A multimeter on the battery terminals or the sae pigtail was showing 13+v. If it is a discharged batt the dealer should find that quickly.

B.D.F. · « **Reply #15 on:** July 11, 2020, 01:41:26 PM »

No point in hitting it- you do not have a stuck activation switch because the screen illuminates. When the switch is stuck, nothing on the bike will work, including the display.

From the symptoms given, it sounds like the solenoid shot- pin may not be activating or mechanically moving. If that is the case, you will also <not> hear the 'clink' or 'tink' noise when the display illuminates because that noise is the solenoid pulling the shot pin disconnecting from the ign. sw. barrel so that it can be turned. That said, it does not fit the circumstances: you had an electrical system failure (full power loss) due to a bad cable and suddenly this happens- I cannot help but think they are related.

At any rate, that is the cause of your problem: KiPass is activating just fine but the solenoid is not releasing the ign. switch barrel so that it can be rotated.

This is the first failure of this type that I have heard of- wish I was closer to take a look 'cause it is interesting (well, maybe not so much to you

)

Brian

Quote from: lather on July 10, 2020, 03:47:25 PM

On my way to Mt. Sterling KY for MSTA rally. Stopped for gas in Russleville KY. Pressed knob, it lit up I tunen to on but when I preessed start button nothing, display went blank. Walked to walmart got tools, voltmeter, sandpaper. Was going to clean up connections but immediately saw the negativce cable was broken at the teminal. Back to Walmart to buy a cable - automotive type but I made it fit. Nows I have power to kipass - screen lights up and dispaly indicates knob ready to turn but wont turn and thgen displays says immobiler error. Tried replacing fob battery as well as passive fob. same result or nothing at all New battery 13 volts.

Used my AMA roadsside assistance. Rep worked with me for 45 minutes to find a shop that said they would work on it. Towe3de to Lsot River Powersports in Bowling Green 32 mile away on AMA. Tech will look in the morning but I have little hope of a quick fix.

THis seems unlike anything I have seen here or other forum in 12 years.

lather · « **Reply #16 on:** July 11, 2020, 03:31:12 PM »

The bike is fixed. Big thanks to Lost River Powersports in Bowling Green and to AMA Rodaside assistance and Clays Auto Body and Towing. Lost River is a big multi brand dealer and they moved me ahead of 91 jobs to get me back on the road.

The problem was a bad positive connection that I missed. I admit I am a lousy wrench! But when I saw that broken negative I was sure that was the problem. Plus it was hot, i was dehydrated and distracted by a bunch of nice folks trying to help. I was in an awkward position in the only available shade between to fuel pump lanes. Thanks to all who gave advice. The service manager asked me before they went to work If I had researched online on a forum and I told him the consensus was a bad batt or bad connection.

maxtog · « **Reply #17 on:** July 11, 2020, 03:50:23 PM »

Quote from: lather on July 11, 2020, 03:31:12 PM

The problem was a bad positive connection that I missed.

Did they mention exactly which one/where?

Glad to hear it was a quick fix!

lather · « **Reply #18 on:** July 11, 2020, 04:12:50 PM »

It must have been the positive post connection. I asked if my negative cable replacement was the problem and he said no.

maxtog · « **Reply #19 on:** July 11, 2020, 04:33:02 PM »

Quote from: lather on July 11, 2020, 04:12:50 PM

It must have been the positive post connection. I asked if my negative cable replacement was the problem and he said no.

Hmm. So the negative wire broke (or degraded) at the battery, and possibly the positive, too? I think this would only happen if the cables had been unusually stressed. Was/is the battery the correct size, or was/is it physically smaller? If it were smaller, it could shift/move/vibrate and start breaking down the cable. Was the battery ever installed backwards (stretching the cables)? Did any battery ever corrode horribly, depositing chemicals on the connectors?

News:

Author Topic: I thought KIPASS stranded me today, but I was wrong (Read 2298 times)