Difficult to shift and clutch engagement question

[SVonhof]

I went on a 1700 mile 5-day trip (got back yesterday) and went through quite a bit of heat. One of the things I noticed was that the shifting got pretty difficult (had to have the clutch lever pulled all the way back to get it into 1st and sometimes to get into 2nd). Once past 3rd, it wasn't a big deal to shift and I would sometimes shift without using the clutch as well.

Also, in the mornings, I would pull the clutch in (bike in first) and hit the starter and it would pull the bike forward some since the clutch was not fully releasing. The clutch started to grab first gear really fast which is not normal either. I have noticed this in the past as well on long multi-day rides, but never thought much of it.

I use Mobil1 oil (full synth), could that be part of the issue?

Ideas, suggestions or comments?

Other than that, I had no issues at all and had a great time around the L.A./San Diego area (besides the heat and traffic).

[sailor_chic]

Yep, you need to use Rotella T6

[gPink]

How often have you changed the fluid and cleaned the grunge out of the master?

[maxtog]

Yep, you need to use Rotella T6

Yeah, if he is using Mobil 1 car oil, that is really not appropriate for motorcycles with a wet clutch.....  I am using Liqui Molly T4, but there are plenty of others.  But it sounds like there could be some other issues, too.

Additional questions to original poster-  How long have you had the C14 in years and miles?  What is the current mileage?  Have you used the bike with any other oils, if so, what/when?  When last was the clutch fluid replaced and bled (in both years and miles)?

[SVonhof]

To answer the questions:

2009 that has 32000 miles on it. I got it in 2010 with 3500 miles on it.
The clutch fluid has not been replaced, only topped off.
I used other oil in the past and it was Castrol GTX (I believe it was motorcycle specific but I cannot remember as that was 2010). All other changes have been the same oil I have now.

I guess I need to start thinking about some of the things I have never dealt with before on a bike, since I have never kept a bike this long...  That's a good thing for this bike, I see no need to replace it!

[jimmymac]

It sure wouldn't hurt to flush the clutch fluid. I can't believe no one said that. Or typed it, for that matter. You shouldn't need to top off clutch fluid, unless there's a leak.

[Daytona_Mike]

Brake fluid and clutch fluid needs to be replaced regularly. (every two years normally- no more than 3 years)
Once the fluid is  tan colored it has absorbed too much water. In high humidity states like Florida that can occur even sooner and not riding the bike (sitting and low mileage bikes) just  adds to the problem.
Time for a full brake fluid and clutch fluid replacement (7 year old fluid?).

What color is your fluid?     

[maxtog]

It sure wouldn't hurt to flush the clutch fluid. I can't believe no one said that. Or typed it, for that matter. You shouldn't need to top off clutch fluid, unless there's a leak.

I kinda implied that....  so did gPink 

When last was the clutch fluid replaced and bled (in both years and miles)?

You shouldn't need to top off clutch fluid, unless there's a leak.

Yeah, I was wondering that.  I suppose over a long time, the level would drop some, but by that time, unless something is really wrong, it would typically be time to replace and flush anyway.

And no, I haven't done either on mine yet (brake/clutch) but it is past time.

[maxtog]

Brake fluid and clutch fluid needs to be replaced regularly. (every two years normally- no more than 3 years)

I am bad.  But my excuse is that I am still waiting for my friend to help me with it (he has been too busy for months, STILL).  I am sticking with that excuse.

In high humidity states like Florida that can occur even sooner

I guess living 15 miles from the ocean to the east and and 10 miles from the bay to the north, here, is probably similar to way down there.  Based on the weather the past several days, everything is steaming and melting.

[SVonhof]

So, yes, time for fluid replacement. I will put that on my To-Do list for my next Friday off. And yes, the fluid looks to be tan colored to some extent.

I do live in a low humidity environment (30% during the day is high for us), so I got that going for me.  ;-)

The front brakes have been replaced twice under warranty, so I would assume (maybe incorrectly) that they flushed the fluid. I will open the reservoir and double-check the color.

[SVonhof]

Oh, and I doubt I have added any fluid to the clutch, but I know I have added to the brake reservoir.

[PlaynInPeoria]

The front brakes have been replaced twice under warranty, so I would assume (maybe incorrectly) that they flushed the fluid. I will open the reservoir and double-check the color.

You could replace rotors and pads without replace brake fluid.  Other than both being part of the brake system, they're pretty much unrelated.

[SVonhof]

You could replace rotors and pads without replace brake fluid.  Other than both being part of the brake system, they're pretty much unrelated.

Yeah, I have done that before, but I figure a dealer should flush it. Maybe not, but I will take a look at it and see. And I will check the paperwork to see if it was noted if they did it or not.

[PlaynInPeoria]

The clutch fluid would be very easy as it's not tied into the ABS etc obviously. I'd get a speed bleeder and go to town.

Oil changes help shifting. I use Rotella T6.

Or you could need a clutch?  Hard to say, I'd do the cheap easy fixes first.   


One more thing, have you changed the adjuster on the clutch lever?  That makes a difference in where the engagement point is in the travel of the clutch, that would make things feel different.

[SVonhof]

Or you could need a clutch?  Hard to say, I'd do the cheap easy fixes first.   

The easy things are always the first to be done in my book! They rarely are the cause though.

One more thing, have you changed the adjuster on the clutch lever?  That makes a difference in where the engagement point is in the travel of the clutch, that would make things feel different.

I have it set and have not changed it for a long time, but will double-check to see where it is. Typically, it's a 1/2 pull and I can get the bike in or out of gear with no issues. That day in particular, it was a pull all the way to the grip (or as close as it would let me), to get it into first and even then, it was still partially engaged as it was bogging the engine a little.

[VirginiaJim]

I went on a 1700 mile 5-day trip (got back yesterday) and went through quite a bit of heat. One of the things I noticed was that the shifting got pretty difficult (had to have the clutch lever pulled all the way back to get it into 1st and sometimes to get into 2nd). Once past 3rd, it wasn't a big deal to shift and I would sometimes shift without using the clutch as well.

Also, in the mornings, I would pull the clutch in (bike in first) and hit the starter and it would pull the bike forward some since the clutch was not fully releasing. The clutch started to grab first gear really fast which is not normal either. I have noticed this in the past as well on long multi-day rides, but never thought much of it.

I use Mobil1 oil (full synth), could that be part of the issue?

Ideas, suggestions or comments?

Other than that, I had no issues at all and had a great time around the L.A./San Diego area (besides the heat and traffic).

I don't believe that this is oil related, although changing it can't hurt.  I had the very same thing happen to me last year on a trip into upper PA (Bradford).  It happened on the way back.  It worked itself out, but when I got home I flushed the clutch fluid and it hasn't happened again.

[SVonhof]

Flushed the clutch fluid on Friday. Yesterday was the first chance I had to ride it, but no issues at all. The old fluid was dirty and had some sediment in it as well.

I will see how it does long term, but I suspect that it will be better than it was.

[jddetroit]

I had the same situation a couple years ago.  For whatever reason, I had air in the line. 
Bled it out, and it's been fine since.  BTW, I also use Mobil 1 'car' oil, and have never had any issues whatsoever, with anything..ever.

[VirginiaJim]

 

[Cold Streak]

Time to revisit this issue.  My 08 has 73k+ on the odometer.  I change the clutch fluid every two years.  I did it last fall, put the bike away for the winter, then rode a bit around here before going on a trip to AR.  We trailered down there.  I only rode two days of about 250 miles each, due to weather.  On the second day at the last gas stop I noticed the clutch wasn't behaving as usual.  The lever had more free play.  We got home and I did a few short rides and the shifting got worse.  I bled out the top bleeder and got some air, then the bottom bleeder and got more air.  At that point it seemed pretty good so I buttoned it up and rode it the next day.  The following day it wouldn't disengage completely so I left it home.  I'm now going to borrow a friends a vacuum bleeder and see if I can get all the air out.  I may just flush out the whole system again.  Has anyone replaced the o-ring/gland in the master cylinder?  I looked on bikebandit.com and they didn't list it as a separate part.  In the past I've repaired them by just polishing the cylinder walls and reinstalling the existing parts.

Sorry for the long post.  Anyone have any input?