Author Topic: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately  (Read 8488 times)

Offline just gone

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2018, 07:59:07 AM »

Last night was my rod and gun club's monthly meeting. The meeting is called to order and everyone faces the flag and recites the Pledge of Allegiance. I would guess the group size at between 150 and 175 people. I took careful count and can report with confidence: number of people doing anything other than standing straight: 0.

Now you may say that that was a bit of a 'stacked deck' and there <may> have been an over- representation of conservatives there (cough, cough, choke, dies). But hey, as I said, I just wanted to throw some of the more stanch conservatives here a bone- not everyplace that sings the anthem or pledges allegiance has anyone taking a knee.... :-)

I find that reassuring. Many overly conservative groups ("overly" here, means most members are conservative, not that it is too conservative) think that the government is coming to take their guns, and a pledge of allegiance would be low on the priority list.
 Not trying to take the bone away, but rather just informing, my union meetings started each meeting with the pledge of allegiance to the U.S. flag and to the republic for which it stands. Everyone stood up, but I retired 6 years ago so I'm not sure how many are still standing at meetings.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2018, 08:27:17 AM »
Yeah, this group is certainly conservative but not in the league with the fringe edge right. I am actually more of a moderate among those folks though I share a lot of their ideas, I am not quite so absolute in many of my views. Still, the people in this group are in my view, perfectly "normal" Americans that do not stand out in any way, certainly no negative way, that I can see or know about.

Of course I cannot speak for several hundred people and have any confidence as to what beliefs any of them may hold but honestly, I do not think a group such as Neo Nazis would find this group full of 'likely prospects'.

But while I would not say 'we' think the 'government is going to take our guns', we, or at least many of us, do firmly believe that a very significant faction on the left absolutely IS trying to 'take our guns'. And we are very much aware and very resistive, through all legal means, of this faction's efforts and desires. But "The Government" is still 'us', not a separate entity. So far, the will of the people still maintains control though there certainly are some exceptions but even then, it is more of an individual or a few people in places of authority abusing the position they hold rather than a wide- spread 'government' conspiracy.

I will freely admit that the NRA is a staunch and unwavering advocate for firearm rights in the US (and many other parts of the world BTW). But I also believe groups such as 'Everytown for gun safety', being fueled by Michael Bloomberg's money, among others, is a staunch and unwavering force for the unilateral personal disarmament of every single private citizen in the US and the 'safety' angle is merely a convenient front to mask their actual goal. The only difference is that the NRA is far more up- front about it and not masking it behind some false ideal or goal.

Brian

I find that reassuring. Many overly conservative groups ("overly" here, means most members are conservative, not that it is too conservative) think that the government is coming to take their guns, and a pledge of allegiance would be low on the priority list.
 Not trying to take the bone away, but rather just informing, my union meetings started each meeting with the pledge of allegiance to the U.S. flag and to the republic for which it stands. Everyone stood up, but I retired 6 years ago so I'm not sure how many are still standing at meetings.
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Offline Rhino

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2018, 08:34:29 AM »
I do not think a group such as Neo Nazis would find this group full of 'likely prospects'.

Brian

No disagreement with that statement but I always find it interesting when people associate nazi with the far right and communist with the far left when in fact they are both forms of totalitarian socialism with very little practical difference between them.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2018, 08:51:05 AM »
I have never thought about it but in actual practice, you are probably exactly right. At least in the way the actual governments form and work in practice if not design. Socialist governments (meaning socialist types, not true socialist: it could be communist or any facet of a general socialist ideal) so far have always moved into totalitarian states, and amazingly fast too. Not at all like the view one might get from reading Marx or Engels.

How does it go? “In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.” -unknown   Much to the chagrin of so very many Soviet 'citizens'.

Brian

No disagreement with that statement but I always find it interesting when people associate nazi with the far right and communist with the far left when in fact they are both forms of totalitarian socialism with very little practical difference between them.
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Offline just gone

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2018, 10:41:56 AM »
....I always find it interesting when people associate nazi with the far right and communist with the far left when in fact they are both forms of totalitarian socialism with very little practical difference between them.

I've always said that it's not a line, it's a circle. Hmmm, I've also said that I'm at the bottom of the circle. I am rethinking that now however, 'cause if the nazis and the commies are down there rubbing up 'gainst each other...then I need to be somewhere else. Dog gone it Rhino! ..you got me thinkin'...and here I was assuming I had today off.

Offline Rhino

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2018, 01:30:32 PM »
I've always said that it's not a line, it's a circle. Hmmm, I've also said that I'm at the bottom of the circle. I am rethinking that now however, 'cause if the nazis and the commies are down there rubbing up 'gainst each other...then I need to be somewhere else. Dog gone it Rhino! ..you got me thinkin'...and here I was assuming I had today off.

A fellow by the name of TJ Rogers (founder and CEO of Cypress Semiconductors) gives speeches and uses the the circle analogy to describe how far right and far left are mostly the same.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2018, 02:19:57 PM »
Just thinking out loud here but perhaps the key word in 'far right' or 'far left' is not the direction but the word 'far'. Remember, only a zealot likes another zealot, and I find that to be personally true: even those I basically agree with start to rub me the wrong way if they go too far and especially if they go too far, too fast.

In fact, even a little 'left' does not bother me, it is the uber- left that I find both annoying as well as ridiculous. But I do not know that they annoy me anymore than the uber- right, which also annoys me and I find ridiculous.

Interesting conversation gentleman, thank you for giving your thoughts. This has provided me with either new insight or a new way of thinking entirely. For whatever it is worth, I have always though that the extreme position on most things is the easy, foolish way out of a problem or situation. Sort of like substituting 'kill them all and let God sort them out' is a ridiculous replacement for a flawed but workable justice system.

Brian (stroking his chin, trying to look very deep in thought.... oh wait, that is not my chin....)

A fellow by the name of TJ Rogers (founder and CEO of Cypress Semiconductors) gives speeches and uses the the circle analogy to describe how far right and far left are mostly the same.
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2018, 02:30:56 PM »
who defined the left , right & middle anyways?
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Offline gPink

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2018, 02:38:12 PM »
People tend to define themselves.

Offline mikeyw64

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2018, 02:40:37 PM »
It's the bloody French again!!!


The French Revolutionary era was where the terms Left-wing politics and Right-wing politics first originated. The reason for the terms to become used at all was the seating of the ancien régime of France at that time. The aristocrats sat on the right, and the commoners sat on the left.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2018, 02:57:48 PM »
Yeah because in a sane world, it would be 'right' and 'wrong'.

 :rotflmao:

Easy folks, just kidding here. I actually have liberal friends. Well, not friends but acquaintances. Well not plural but one acquaintance. OK, not really an acquaintance but someone I heard about one time who sounded OK to me. Other than his beliefs, of course.

 :D ;)

Brian

People tend to define themselves.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2018, 03:50:42 PM »
Last night was my rod and gun club's monthly meeting. The meeting is called to order and everyone faces the flag and recites the Pledge of Allegiance. I would guess the group size at between 150 and 175 people. I took careful count and can report with confidence: number of people doing anything other than standing straight: 0.

Now for an interesting twist-

I always stand for the national anthem, and will place my right hand on my heart, and proudly sing it!  I am proud to be an American, and respect the theme.  But, to me, the "Pledge of Allegiance" is entirely different...  I will stand, but change the words I say to:

"I pledge respect to the flag of the United States of America...."
"I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America...."

Because I will NOT pledge my allegiance to a "flag" nor a state [in whole] of any kind, it goes contrary to my beliefs as a free citizen in a free country.  I believe that no free state should demand or expect allegiance to itself.  I will, however, pledge my allegiance to the Constitution, a document that I revere, respect, support, and follow.  I don't yell it, I don't protest, I don't make a scene, I don't try to convert anyone to my point of view.  Of course, I will discuss it if the topic presents itself (as it has, here).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance_(United_States)#Controversy

Another sticking point for me is non-generic "prayer" in a meeting that is not religious in nature.  My Civic League starts their meetings with the Pledge (which I alter) and then followed by a Christian-centered prayer.  I strongly object to that because the purpose of the meeting is civics, not religion, and there are people in the group who may be of various different religions or no religion at all.  It makes no difference that I am basically a Christian.
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Offline Rhino

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2018, 03:58:51 PM »
who defined the left , right & middle anyways?

Means different things to different people. A 1 dimensional scale to describe an "n" dimensional idea. Actually pretty stupid.

Offline just gone

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2018, 04:21:17 PM »
Remember, only a zealot likes another zealot, and I find that to be personally true...



  I will stand, but change the words I say to:

"I pledge respect to the flag of the United States of America...."
"I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America...."

Because I will NOT pledge my allegiance to a "flag" nor a state [in whole] of any kind, it goes contrary to my beliefs as a free citizen in a free country.  I believe that no free state should demand or expect allegiance to itself.  I will, however, pledge my allegiance to the Constitution, a document that I revere, respect, support, and follow. 


..and one comes forward.  ;D :stirpot:

Offline just gone

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #54 on: February 06, 2018, 04:23:15 PM »
...awkward pause....

Offline gPink

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #55 on: February 06, 2018, 04:24:21 PM »
Means different things to different people. A 1 dimensional scale to describe an "n" dimensional idea. Actually pretty stupid.

I keep people I don't trust on my left side.  8)

Offline just gone

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2018, 04:26:10 PM »
Just kidding 'max.  ;)

..so how does that work?

"I pledge respect to the flag of the United States of America...."
"I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America...."

Do you work those both in?..or ...do you randomly pick one or the other to substitute in. Despite my bad joke, I actually like your thought process there.
If I said the pledge more often, I might have to adopt that, I especially like the second one.

Offline maxtog

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Re: perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately
« Reply #57 on: February 06, 2018, 04:39:14 PM »
Just kidding 'max.  ;)

..so how does that work?

Do you work those both in?..or ...do you randomly pick one or the other to substitute in.

It has kinda "evolved" from "respect the flag" to "allegiance to the Constitution" over the years.

Quote
I actually like your thought process there.   If I said the pledge more often, I might have to adopt that, I especially like the second one.

You are free to do so, I have not copyrighted it :)
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