Author Topic: ECU flashing now available  (Read 133714 times)

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #140 on: January 06, 2016, 03:56:51 PM »
I noticed no detrimental effects.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #141 on: January 06, 2016, 06:27:27 PM »
I noticed no detrimental effects.

  How would you know the difference?

  I'm starting to figure some stuff out here. I'm glad someone pointed out that you have a throttle tamer. Steve

Offline PeteTN_zgtr

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #142 on: January 06, 2016, 08:46:01 PM »
Throttle transitions were smooth as they were before the flash.  I never noticed any abruptness before, nor afterwards.  Deceleration feels the same as it was before.  I didn't have any issues with controlling the speed of the bike (before or after), although it always wants to go faster.  It basically just felt more powerful.  What I would like to do is ride a gen2 (stock) and compare how good my bike is to theirs. ;)   The only real issue I had was the idle speed dropped.   Hard to estimate how much, but I'm thinking about 200rpm or less.

I wouldn't ever say this about my 08. Mine's always been abrupt. One of the things that bothered me about it coming from a carbed bike. A throttle tamer helped but is a Band-Aid fix. I've learned to make smoother transitions but it takes more concentration which lessens enjoyment. It would be interesting to know if Jim's bike had a different stock tune.

Offline maxtog

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #143 on: January 06, 2016, 09:35:09 PM »
I wouldn't ever say this about my 08. Mine's always been abrupt. One of the things that bothered me about it coming from a carbed bike. A throttle tamer helped but is a Band-Aid fix. I've learned to make smoother transitions but it takes more concentration which lessens enjoyment.

Exactly my experience, even though a 2nd gen.  I came from other bikes, the last being a carbed ZRX-11.  I found the Concours throttle extremely difficult to control- the throttle was an on/off switch in comparison.  Anything in first gear that required subtilty was very difficult- launching, upshifting, slow cornering, etc.   More than once I could have lost her due to lack of throttle finesse.   In 2nd it was better but still an issue.  3+ and it didn't matter much.   Even after two years it was still annoying.  Too little motion = too much gas.

However, in my case,  when I finally put the Throttle Tamer on, it solved about 80% of the issue.  Combined with 2.5 years of practice, it was really no issue any more.  The control was much easier and more predictable.  I am amazed when I come across riders who don't seem to have any issue with the stock throttle setup.
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Offline connie14boy

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #144 on: January 06, 2016, 10:36:55 PM »
The Throttle Tamer is very effective at greatly reducing so-called "throttle snatch".   Since the secondary butterflies can limit airflow, it is theoretically possible to simulate what the Throttle Tamer does mechanically but in the ECU.  However, if ECU changes do that AND one already has a Throttle Tamer, then the effect would be to double the taming, which might not be desired...

I've heard some talk about this here "throttle snatch" and hoped it was as good as it sounds. Yeehaw.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #145 on: January 06, 2016, 11:02:53 PM »
I wouldn't ever say this about my 08. Mine's always been abrupt. One of the things that bothered me about it coming from a carbed bike. A throttle tamer helped but is a Band-Aid fix. I've learned to make smoother transitions but it takes more concentration which lessens enjoyment. It would be interesting to know if Jim's bike had a different stock tune.

  There really isn't a different stock tune. the ECU's have different PN's and there are differences between them but the differences are subtle. there are no differences between ECU's with the same pn's, there is no ECU that's tuned uniquely to a particular bike from the factory.

   Last week I flashed a bike, in my shop, for a member of this forum. He was the perfect guy for it too...long time rider, former Moto racer, and currently he raced cars with EFI so he knows the ins and outs of EFI tuning. I'm hoping he posts up here, but from what he told me he knew in the first 300 feet out of my driveway that there was a considerable change in the way the engine ran.

  I have to say that Jim isn't seeming anywhere near as enthusiastic as virtually everybody else has been. Maybe he has a particularly good c-14, I don't know. My suspicions are that  the throttle tamer is helping him and he doesn't really remember "stock" and  that he's probably a more sedate rider than many c-14 riders. I don't know any of this as fact, but it stands to reason that someone who is an easy rider isn't going to be confronted with the extra torque and horsepower that comes with those big throttle openings.

  Another issue  that came come up, though I don't think this is Jim's situation, is the person that has unrealistic expectations. Tuning isn't like doubling the displacement, it's just optimizing what you already have. Some folks think it's like adding cylinders, and it just isn't. These would be folks who are going to be disappointed because of unrealistic expectations. Again, I don't think this is Jim's case at all, I more suspect he's just an easier rider so the differences aren't as noticeable to him.

  So Jim... is that accurate? Steve

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #146 on: January 07, 2016, 05:17:31 AM »
Depends on the situation, Steve.  Both rides I've done since the flash are more on the sedate side simply because of circumstances.  The first was just a 'test' circuit I go on with very few twisties.  The second was with my wife through another circuit I regularly travel.  It has many more twisties but with the wife on board it's not like I can go hog wild without severe repercussions.  With that being said, I can tell the difference in how the bike is reacting with the additional load.  It is more responsive.  It's not  :banana , though, but then I haven't been able to get to the mountains to really open it up on the twisties in the higher RPM range.  I don't think that is going to happen until the spring.  It's cold here now and while I do ride in the cold, I don't do it as much as in warmer weather.  I do ride with a group from MD at times that would enable a really good test and one of the guys there has a gen2 bike that I would like to trade places with.  They are a very spirited bunch.  They typically have Spring and Fall rides.  I rode behind the Gen 2 last spring and kept up easily with him (he is more spirited than I am, though) whilst a host of lesser bikes (BMWs and their ilk) kept behind us.

As far as 'normal' riding goes, which is typically Interstate these days, I don't push it and I'm typically in OD.  I'm glad I got the flash done (don't regret it one bit) and look forward to really giving it a workout as soon as I can.  As far as the throttle tamer goes, I did mention that on the phone with you.  You just may have forgot. 
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Offline mikeb2411

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #147 on: January 07, 2016, 08:56:24 AM »
Depends on the situation, Steve.  Both rides I've done since the flash are more on the sedate side simply because of circumstances.  The first was just a 'test' circuit I go on with very few twisties.  The second was with my wife through another circuit I regularly travel.  It has many more twisties but with the wife on board it's not like I can go hog wild without severe repercussions.  With that being said, I can tell the difference in how the bike is reacting with the additional load.  It is more responsive.  It's not  :banana , though, but then I haven't been able to get to the mountains to really open it up on the twisties in the higher RPM range.  I don't think that is going to happen until the spring.  It's cold here now and while I do ride in the cold, I don't do it as much as in warmer weather.  I do ride with a group from MD at times that would enable a really good test and one of the guys there has a gen2 bike that I would like to trade places with.  They are a very spirited bunch.  They typically have Spring and Fall rides.  I rode behind the Gen 2 last spring and kept up easily with him (he is more spirited than I am, though) whilst a host of lesser bikes (BMWs and their ilk) kept behind us.

As far as 'normal' riding goes, which is typically Interstate these days, I don't push it and I'm typically in OD.  I'm glad I got the flash done (don't regret it one bit) and look forward to really giving it a workout as soon as I can.  As far as the throttle tamer goes, I did mention that on the phone with you.  You just may have forgot.

Jim, just twist the throttle and twist it hard (the throttle on the bike guys...just the throttle)...that's all you have to do and the rest will take care of itself. I ride a lot of Highway miles and even in OD my bike is much better than stock! I can turn the throttle at 80MPH and be at 120 in what seems like an instant (a little exaggeration but it is much more responsive than stock) I will say that I was somewhat disappointed with the bike when it was stock simply because I expected more from the Concours. The way people explained it prior to my buying one sounded as if I would have this "untamed rocket" under me and had to be really careful with it. We all know you have to be really careful on any bike but the Concours wasn't what I was expecting. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy riding it and have enjoyed it since buying it but the power that I though was going to be there, wasn't. Steve fixed that and now the bike is FANTASTIC! The only thing I've noticed is the fuel economy...kind of hit-and-miss. Some tanks I get 250+ and others I get 220 at most and I am pretty consistent in my riding style...weird but I still love it! STILL LONVIN' IT STEVE!!!
Mike
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #148 on: January 07, 2016, 09:29:10 AM »
I don't have any issues with the power this bike has.  I came from a C10...  What I like especially is the ability to ramp up the power quickly depending on the situation.  I'm very familiar with the power curves it has.  I've never been on a bike that when pushed seems it's going faster than the rider sitting on it.  Very weird, feeling the bike going forward and me being pushed back.  So I know all too well what this bike can do.  But that's the beauty of it.   When I need that kind of power and corner holding, it doesn't disappoint.
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Offline mikeb2411

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #149 on: January 07, 2016, 09:39:53 AM »
I don't have any issues with the power this bike has.  I came from a C10...  What I like especially is the ability to ramp up the power quickly depending on the situation.  I'm very familiar with the power curves it has.  I've never been on a bike that when pushed seems it's going faster than the rider sitting on it.  Very weird, feeling the bike going forward and me being pushed back.  So I know all too well what this bike can do.  But that's the beauty of it.   When I need that kind of power and corner holding, it doesn't disappoint.

Saturday I was riding/training with my police buddies and one of them is on a brand new 2015 RT with 600 miles on it. We switched bikes. I thought his ran "rough" and didn't feel anywhere as smooth as mine (ours). Then there's the power...again, all I've heard is how the new RT has so much more HP and torque that the previous model and maybe it does but when you ride the new RT and my 2012 C14 you know which bike has it and which one doesn't! Let's just say he wanted to paint mine "black and white" and keep it ;D! He couldn't get over how much faster my bike was than his AND he liked how smooth it was. Excuse this next comment but that RT literally had my nuts rattling in my pants! The ONLY thing better on his bike was front end protection, talking about the windscreen and cockpit. It was better and I liked that because much less wind noise. Why is the Concours so difficult to figure out when it comes to the front end and the wind protection it offers? Maybe I'm expecting TOO much when it comes to that but the RT's protection and lack of noise was better in its stock form than mine with an aftermarket screen.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #150 on: January 07, 2016, 09:50:15 AM »
Why is the Concours so difficult to figure out when it comes to the front end and the wind protection it offers? Maybe I'm expecting TOO much when it comes to that but the RT's protection and lack of noise was better in its stock form than mine with an aftermarket screen.

  Kawasaki has btdt, it's what we know as the c-10. Best weather protection imaginable, but that frontal area came at the expense of top speed and top speed stability. Steve

Offline mikeb2411

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #151 on: January 07, 2016, 09:53:11 AM »
  Kawasaki has btdt, it's what we know as the c-10. Best weather protection imaginable, but that frontal area came at the expense of top speed and top speed stability. Steve

btdt??? So, is it common for us Concours riders to have increased wind noise because the bike is built to go fast and not necessarily to be "quiet"...is that a fair assumption. If that's the case I can put the chase for a quiet cockpit to rest and happily live with what I have knowing the bike is made that way for a reason!
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #152 on: January 07, 2016, 11:37:41 AM »
btdt??? So, is it common for us Concours riders to have increased wind noise because the bike is built to go fast and not necessarily to be "quiet"...is that a fair assumption. If that's the case I can put the chase for a quiet cockpit to rest and happily live with what I have knowing the bike is made that way for a reason!

 Yes, this is really a supersport / tourer. so it's not a full zx14, nor is it a goldwing. it's somewhere in the middle, but in this case more heavily biased towards the sport side. You're not going to get the wind / weather protection, even with a tall shield, that the c-10 had. Of course the c-10 was done at about 125mph. On this bike you're just clicking into 4 gear. Steve

Offline mikeb2411

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #153 on: January 07, 2016, 11:56:47 AM »
Yes, this is really a supersport / tourer. so it's not a full zx14, nor is it a goldwing. it's somewhere in the middle, but in this case more heavily biased towards the sport side. You're not going to get the wind / weather protection, even with a tall shield, that the c-10 had. Of course the c-10 was done at about 125mph. On this bike you're just clicking into 4 gear. Steve

Thanks Steve, I appreciate finally being told what I should expect from the bike. I have been through many windscreens trying to find that "quiet place" thinking that something was wrong with ME because I couldn't find it! Knowing that the bike is setup as you have described makes me happy now and I can quit the search. I can keep the MRA on the bike and be happy with it! I can tell you that I will be sacrificing "quiet" for "power" for a long time because nothing else out there makes me feel as good as the Concours does while riding!

Let me ask you one more thing...I am going to be buying a new one at the end of the year or early 2017 depending on what Kawi does with the 2017 model. I'll know more after IMS in November but whether I buy a 2016 or 2017 do you think it will be something you will be able to flash? The flash is too good not to have so I will definitely make that a priority of things to do to the new bike.
Mike
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #154 on: January 07, 2016, 03:06:59 PM »
Thanks Steve, I appreciate finally being told what I should expect from the bike. I have been through many windscreens trying to find that "quiet place" thinking that something was wrong with ME because I couldn't find it! Knowing that the bike is setup as you have described makes me happy now and I can quit the search. I can keep the MRA on the bike and be happy with it! I can tell you that I will be sacrificing "quiet" for "power" for a long time because nothing else out there makes me feel as good as the Concours does while riding!

Let me ask you one more thing...I am going to be buying a new one at the end of the year or early 2017 depending on what Kawi does with the 2017 model. I'll know more after IMS in November but whether I buy a 2016 or 2017 do you think it will be something you will be able to flash? The flash is too good not to have so I will definitely make that a priority of things to do to the new bike.

  I think 2016's will just be the same as 2015, so that's probably fine. No way I'm speculating on 2017.

  BTW, thanks for the kind words and vote of confidence! Steve

Offline SW ROADRUNNER

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #155 on: January 08, 2016, 07:25:25 AM »
Steve
Will you be including the deceleration mod on the AreaP exaust flash?
Thanks

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #156 on: January 08, 2016, 07:43:08 AM »
Steve
Will you be including the deceleration mod on the AreaP exaust flash?
Thanks

  absolutely - the Decel flash is a real rider's flash, so it stands to reason I would build from it. Steve

Offline Deziner

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #157 on: January 08, 2016, 08:00:07 AM »
What about bikes with secondary butterflies removed? I currently have a PCV on my '08.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #158 on: January 08, 2016, 08:05:25 AM »
My bike still has flies in.
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Offline Deziner

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #159 on: January 08, 2016, 08:09:19 AM »
I corrected my previous post. My flies have been removed.

Brain fade. This whole getting old thing...
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