Possible Oil Pump Failure

[RFH87_Connie]

Here's a pic of the oil lines from my blown motor.  The second pic is from the OEM repair manual to show where the plug is.  Hopefully this helps.  There is also a VERY good drawing/schematic of the oiling system in the book.  I can clip that one if you need it (it's section 6-4 in my book).

[concours_to_go]

Thank you !

[RFH87_Connie]

The diagram...

[DC Concours]

Just a side bar...

RFH87, how did you blow a hole in the engine like that?

[RFH87_Connie]

It's most likely the dreaded number 3 rod bearing being starved for oil.  I never heard of this until it happened to me.  I seems that some of the engines for one reason or another can have a starvation problem and most of the time its on number 3.  I was coming back from SC to VA and it broke in the middle of NC after about 125 miles of 80mph or so.  It was actually still running but made a HUGE racket.  Still had about 2qts of oil in when I got it home.  Somewhere on the forum here it is discussed.  Now its my "parts" engine.

[Daytona_Mike]

concours_to_go   Would it be possible for you to show us with some pictures what led you 'possible oil pump  issue'
I thought it might be helpful to eliminate any other possibilities  before going down this road. For example, your oil light has never come on so it might not be your oil pump.
Also you said it was not your cam chain. How do you know that?

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

you don't have a pump problem. The criteria you're using for the oil pressure as being how much oil you see on the top isn't a viable method. Blowing out the passageways won't help anything if there's a pump or a clearance issue existing. Put a proper gauge on the main oil galley, or don't mess with it, you'll only make things worse. the main oil galley is the 14mm or 17 mm bolt (don't recall) that's below the timing cover.

 Only 35 years engine building experience speaking.

 steve

[MAN OF BLUES]

 

[SteveJ.]

Only 35 years engine building experience speaking.

D*mn, yer gittin' old!!

[tweeter55]

D*mn, yer gittin' old!!

Steve ain't old. He started when he was 6.

[concours_to_go]

So,
I got ahead of myself when I started this post and should have added a question mark on the end of it's title...Possible Oil Pump Failure...? I started this post without thoroughly looking into the problem, more like thinking out loud. I didn't include all the details of what lead up to my conclusion, partly because I can't remember clearly all of it. It started a couple months ago. Over a few days, the bike was running hotter than usual, but didn't overheat. It was making more valve train noise than usual. It has an APE manual cam chain tensioner, so nothing to fail there. I suspected there may be a problem, so I towed it to my shop and left it to deal with later, when I had some time. Clearly it's not getting enough oil in the top end, the cam chain and sprockets are dry, the camshafts are dry. There are small puddles of fresh clean oil on the cylinder head bottom surface. Some of the cams show light abrasion that looks new. There are some small pitted areas on a couple of the cams, not sure if they are new or not, I've only had this bike a short while. I'd add some photos, but really nothing out of the ordinary to see. I made an oil plug adapter from the plug off the parts engine. I have a tester and will follow the procedure in the manual.

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

Steve ain't old. He started when he was 6.

 i wish. I'm 56 next month. first engine I built I was 20 - 21, it was an aluminum 215 engine. Started doing bikes when I was maybe 23 or 24.

 CTG, sorry your logic is flawed. the bike sat for 2 months. The oil has run off. St happens. So do cam pits. and manual tensioners need adjusting from time to time. And low oil pressure won't make it run warm, it will make it run seized.    Steve

[concours_to_go]

The bike was completely serviced 2 months earlier to finding these symptoms. The valves were adjusted, cam chain adjusted, oil and filter changed, carbs cleaned, adjusted, synced, fresh coolant, new thermostat. It was running excellent, smooth and steady, no issues. Then over a few days I noticed it began to run warmer than usual, but never overheated. I checked the coolant it was full. Checked the cooling fan, it was working. It began to have more valve train noise, I saw it was full of oil, but didn't quiet down within a few seconds as it usually does as it is warming up. So, I "guessed" it may not be getting oil to the top end. As it would not take much for lower end to be normally lubricated, but the "Y" tube flow possibly obstructed and under feeding it with oil. So that was the last I did with it a few months ago.
I started off this post with a statement that should have been a question, and was also probably miss- titled, and if you read through all my comments, you can see I tried to clear that up.
So, what I am going to do is manually oil the camshafts, cam chain, and sprockets, just to be on the safe side, before I run the engine for the oil pressure test. If the pressure is correct, then I will manually remove the oil from the camshafts and run the engine again to see if the they are being lubricated as they should be.

So Steve, given the symptoms, What is your diagnosis?

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

you've enumerated the symptoms, not me. in other words, I can't tell you if  anything is wrong because I'm not getting the chance to see it for myself. OTOH, nothing in what you've written leads me to believe there's an oil pressure issue.  now if you pulled the cams and the journals are cooked and the lobes are all spalled, then yeah, i see an oil pressure issue. but with what you've reported, I don't see an oiling issue.

 Case in point... if there was insufficient oil to the top, and the cams are eating the head and rockers, then the noise is getting noticeably and obviously worse. if you think there's an oiling issue, and it's been going on then there's damage already, so blowing out the oil supply line is to little to late. pull the cams and inspect the journals if you are convinced there's an oil supply issue. Steve

[stevewfl]

I'd have already hired steve  for an engine analysis. but 3 pages of this is entertaining

[concours_to_go]

Ok, yes, I see your point about the cam journals. Might be too late, but I'll check them before I do the oil pressure test.

[Jet86]

This pic was taken 8 years ago on my first valve adjust and even though the pic is of poor quality you can see the scuffing, however it didn't look any worse last week when i adjusted my valves then it did 8 years ago, i think this was the 5th time i adjusted the valves.

i keep thinking they are gonna look worse every time i check them.

[concours_to_go]

Update...I inspected the camshaft journals, all looked normal. Did the oil pressure relief valve test, cold engine, should be 63 to 85 psi, at varied speeds (was not specific), passed. Oil pressure test done at operating temperature, 4000 rpm, should be 38 to 47 psi, passed.
So far, seems to be ok, maybe a false alarm, but better safe than sorry. Thanks for your comments.

Jim

[MAN OF BLUES]

now just go ride, and enjoy...

mmmmkay....?