Author Topic: Connie EFI 2.0  (Read 7042 times)

gpineau

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Connie EFI 2.0
« on: December 05, 2020, 07:41:09 AM »
Crank position is a critical component of ECU timing. Replacing the VR sensor with a Hall Effect sensor for best crank position precision.

https://youtu.be/ijxOpge07cw

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gpineau

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2020, 08:21:30 AM »
I've got the throttle bodies on the bench and teaching myself how to control the secondary throttle plates. I think that will be critical to keep the AFR from going too lean when quickly going to wide open throttle.  I think I am close to figuring it out.

https://youtu.be/8X-HH7aWF6c

gpineau

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2020, 11:53:15 PM »
This is a one-off development just for my motorcycle which will have a throttle body with secondary throttle plates. The reason I need them, or think I need them is because of my other motorcycle AFR going too lean if opening the throttle too quickly. So in theory by delaying the airflow into the throttle body until the RPM can catch up with the TPS it may solve my problem. These secondary plates also crack open the primary plates when they are fully opened. This provides air at idle and a fast idle during warm up.

Currently working on firmware routines that control and calibrate the Secondary throttle plates.
When code wakes up and starts the initialize routine, it will calibrate the secondary plates by finding the full open and full closed positions. It is repeated 4 times then the values are saved.

In the main loop, a routine is called periodically to service the Secondary Throttle plates (STP). This routine uses RPM and TPS to look up in a table the target position of where the secondary throttle plates should be. It then compares this target position to the actual position and initiates a seek in the direction of the target position. Upon initiating the seek the routine will exit. This is repeated until the position reaches the target. At the moment I have it slowed down so I can see what is going on during debug.

A while until I am done but I think this is going to work.https://youtu.be/ia2SJ3GiNH4

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2020, 10:42:42 AM »
Please refresh my memory.
Last I recall you had removed and lost the secondary throttle plates on the TB's that you were using.
Think I recall that you were planning to use TB's from another bike?

So, which TB's are you currently using for these tests?

Ride safe, Ted

Update; I just looked at your other posting. Think your using ZG-1400 TB's??

gpineau

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2020, 02:14:55 PM »
I have one of each. Z1000 and zg1400.
The zg1400 is a closer fit but I have experience with the z1000.
If i use them I will have to spread them apart 13mm and find a way to extend the shaft of the secondary throttle plates.

gpineau

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2020, 02:02:01 PM »
Connie Rider,
I used one z1000 tb in the last project. That is the one that I removed the plates from. I may still have the plates in the junk box but for now I will continue with the current project.

 I have a  1400 set of TBs and a Z1000 set of TBs that I am playing with.  The 1400 TBs are a close fit and I think will mount to the head if I used soft flexible hoses. The z1000 TBs are a bit more difficult. They must be separated in the middle and spread by 13 mm.

it would also require me to cut the shaft of the secondary plates and make a coupling to splice the 2 halves in the middle.  That is really problematic because the motor that drives the plates is also mounted in the center between the two sets  of TBs.

On the 1400 TB the driver motor is on the

 I haven't decided yet which set I will use. I am just writing the software for controlling them that should work on which ever one I finally choose.

Offline qiksho

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2020, 03:40:33 PM »
This is a really cool project! I have yet to ride a fuel injected bike. I probably won't comment much on your progress but I will be following your thread. It looks like you are well on your way to figuring this all out.
Current bike: 95 Concours
Past bikes: 92 zx6 & 93 zx11

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2020, 10:13:06 AM »
So, my guess is;
You'll start with the basic program you have {Secondary's open} and then close/adjust the secondary's to find improvement?
We'll be watching..

Ride safe, Ted

gpineau

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2020, 12:50:00 PM »
So, my guess is;
You'll start with the basic program you have {Secondary's open} and then close/adjust the secondary's to find improvement?
We'll be watching..

Ride safe, Ted
Well sort of that is the plan. I will probable concentrate on the wide open throttle problem I was having before. Start with a opening size and play with it until is see improvements.

Damn, it took most of the morning to get the secondary plates working on the 1400 throttle bodies.  Although the connector uses an identical plug, the wiring it totally different.   Its working fine now.  Its a bigger motor and it takes about 25 more steps (compared to the z1000) to go from full open to full closed.

Now that this is working I think it is the one I am going to use on the C10 Connie.  When I hold it up to the head I see single mm differences between the spacing on the head compared to the TBs. I'm sure I can make it fit.  I'm going to go measure it now.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2020, 07:49:26 AM »
Rev made molded boots for his turbo bike. Worked initially but failed/cracked later.
Failure occurred because he had boosted pressure in it.
Don't think he had a heavy hose on the outside.

Ride safe, Ted

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2020, 07:27:43 AM »
Looks good.
Will the silicon be fairly rigid?

I know it's a way off, but any thoughts on the air box?
The OEM is a PITA, but "if" you could find a way to put it on without a huge fight, would work well.

Ride safe, Ted

gpineau

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2020, 08:14:43 AM »
The silicone is not very rigid. It is a liquid until it sets up and cures. I am relying on it to find and seal all the  seams.  The rigidity will come from the outer radiator hose. It has thick 4 ply walls and is very stiff.

As for the airbox.  Anyone that has removed and re-installed carbs will agree there must be a better way.  I never did like the design of force fitting the carbs between the head and the airbox. I think a better design would have been to have the carbs held onto the head with some bracket then the airbox bolted onto the carbs with a similar/same bracket.  I like Honda's design. The carbs are attached to the head and the airbox is bolted to the back of the carbs.   

I will give it a try but from my last experience i think there is no room. It is about an inch too long. I could cut it up like I did the last one and possible make it work but it would be a real chore.  I preordered 4 pod filters anyway.

BTW, I am still hunting for the secondary throttle plates that I removed from the other set of throttle bodies. Since I cleaned the garage it is difficult to remember where I put stuff. They are not in the box of carb parts but they may be in another box (heavy one ) on the top shelf .

gpineau

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2020, 03:28:23 PM »
OOPS ! brain fart....
Not the worst idea I have ever had but pretty close. Pouring liquid silicone down the throat of a throttle body and not expecting it to find every leak possible. What was I thinking. Turned into a gooey mess and went everywhere but where I wanted.

Decided on another approach. I will make a 3D model of the gasket (4 copies) then make a mold for them in a sealed container ,, then I can cast the real gasket out of silicone and it will be a much better fit that what I started out to make.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 05:10:03 AM by gpineau »

gpineau

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2021, 05:47:52 PM »
Finally my adapters from the TB to the head have arrived. I am so pleased with these and glad I waited for them instead of using my home made adapters. They are a perfect fit and solid mount between the head and TBs.

I've been working for days trying to print a case for the ECU. I have restarted maybe 7-8 times so far. I finally gave up and tossed the off-brand roll of PLA and put in a reel of ABS. It is looking good so far. Time will tell.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2021, 01:53:19 PM »
Yahooo.
Progress..   :thumbs: :hail:

Ride safe, Ted

gpineau

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2021, 03:01:08 PM »
Been a bum of the last two weeks. Had to have a couple kidney stones removed. But there was a 3r stone that could not be reached without sonic shock wave. Its supposed to be an outpatient procedure but it landed me in the ER and admission to the hospital for two days.  Bruised my kidney and everything else on the side of the body. Good news is this only happens to about 1% of patients.  I am so lucky I made the top 1%.

Got enough energy today to print up a case for the ECU. It looks great and I made it extra sturdy. Havnt' figured out where to mount it but to make it water proof I used an AMP SEAL connector and for all the seams and openings I will pack with white Lithium grease.

https://youtu.be/E8TbJmrKBDE
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 06:37:21 PM by gpineau »

Offline fred-houston

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2021, 03:17:52 AM »

Welcome to the club, we are both in the 1 percent club.  Kidney stints are fun.  :)



Been a bum of the last two weeks. Had to have a couple kidney stones removed. But there was a 3r stone that could not be reached without sonic shock wave. Its supposed to be an outpatient procedure but it landed me in the ER and admission to the hospital for two days.  Bruised my kidney and everything else on the side of the body. Good news is this only happens to about 1% of patients.  I am so lucky I made the top 1%.

Got enough energy today to print up a case for the ECU. It looks great and I made it extra sturdy. Havnt' figured out where to mount it but to make it water proof I used an AMP SEAL connector and for all the seams and openings I will pack with white Lithium grease.

https://youtu.be/E8TbJmrKBDE
2001 BMW R1150GS
1999 C-10 (Semi Naked) EFI

gpineau

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2021, 07:38:46 AM »
This is a terrible procedure.  A shock wave that can pulverize stones and not hurt soft tissue....Bull ****. My whole left side, testes, scrotum is swollen and BLACK. I lost a lot of kidney function from this procedure.

My GFR dropped from 41 to 21. Which is stage 4 kidney failure.  It has since come back up to 31but if it does not et back to 41 there is a couple doctors that will be in a court room explaining why they thought this procedure was ok for a 68 YO man with reduced renal function.

Enough crying. I had 5 unused pins in the big automotive connector so I cut loose the Bluetooth connectors and will bring those pins out the side connector. Also there is a 3rd serial port in the ECU which I brought out to the same connector.  The 3rd serial port allows me to monitor many of the parameters in the ECU firmware. So I will build me another small ECU dedicated to controlling the secondary throttle plates in the throttle bodies. I Can also offload simple task like fuel pump/pressure control and the wideband O2 controller. 

gpineau

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2021, 05:00:58 PM »
Very little progress. Still feeling shitty since I got home from the hospital. Doc says it will take about 4 months to return my kidney function and blood counts to normal.

Meanwhile I got the Crank wheel and position sensor installed and sired up. Also mounted the spark coil and ECU to the Battery box.  The VW spark coil is a lot bigger that I thought so I couldnt mount it under the tank like I had planned so now it is down under the throttle bodies attached to the front of the battery box.

https://youtu.be/0_jjXn9jtCI

https://youtu.be/M_fshWd4Ssw

gpineau

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Re: Connie EFI 2.0
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2021, 01:40:45 PM »
EFI conversion is complete. The bike starts fairly easily.  Idles rough but will rev easily with the throttle.
My concern now before I start trouble shooting and tuning is that while running the bike is belching large amounts of white/gray smoke out both tail pipes. It wasn't doing that when i brought into the garage last fall.

I do know it is running a little on the rich side but not excessive. The AFR is running between 11 and 13 most of the time I will go slightly lean if I really twist hard on the throttle.

 I cant see any line across the sight-glass. I don't recall that I added any oil but It may be over  full. 
If I push the bike up straight I see the oil on the full line but on the kickstand it shows over full.
@Do you check oil  on the side stand or setting level?


Thinking it might be bad gas I drained the tank and replaced it with new ethanol-free gas.  Still smokes and runs rough.

@Any idea ?