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Author Topic: Fuse Box Failure?  (Read 6641 times)

Offline mcman56

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Fuse Box Failure?
« on: March 18, 2015, 06:17:20 PM »
I pressed the starter button and the whole bike went dead.  No lights or electrical functions work.  Battery voltage looks good.  Ground strap looks good.  12+ volts to the main fuse.  Then I noticed that there was a ticking sound when the key was turned on.  The tick got quicker the longer the key was on.  I traced it to the fuse box and the tick is likely arcing. 

It looks like the fuse box is heat staked together.  If I drill out the staked pins, could I reassemble with screws.  Can the box be fixed?
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Offline DC Concours

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2015, 06:23:48 PM »
People recommend Larry's service to refurb your box.

http://bucksporttouring.com/j-box.html

check it out, ask a few questions and see...
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Offline GeeBeav

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2015, 06:30:22 PM »
You said battery voltage good - did you check battery voltage with the key on? Sounds like low battery.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2015, 06:34:54 PM »
disconnect the batt, and pull it out, and check volts... take it a step further and take it to Autozone, or other place, and load check it..
if it checks good, scrub the terminals abrasively, and the opposite terminal ends, reconnect all, and try again, charge on the bench in between, and if the batt is 5 years old.... just ditch it. You did not give enough info on the history of the bike, or the Batt, for anyone to make any intelligent assumption, just saying...might want to be a bit more sharing on this, if you wish internet answers from afar. ;)

but don't discount a bad relay solder joint in the J-box... you can do a search, and find the process for drilling the seal melts off, and resoldering the relays... many times this does it all, but if the Batt is bad... it's bad.
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Offline mcman56

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2015, 06:50:56 PM »
Battery dropped to 2v with key on and then drifted up to 5....maybe when ticking was started so maybe I'm hearing a relay.  I'll take for a load test.  Battery almost 4 years old.  Bike ridden regularly in winter, on tender when weather demands a ride that gives ride less heat in summer. 

Can a relay tick be normal with a battery issue?  Bike started and ran fine yesterday.
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Offline GeeBeav

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2015, 06:57:05 PM »
Your battery is toast. The ticking is due to low voltage, not enough to hold the relay closed.
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Offline T Cro ®

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2015, 04:14:43 AM »
Quote from: GeeBeav on March 18, 2015, 06:57:05 PM
Your battery is toast. The ticking is due to low voltage, not enough to hold the relay closed.

Yes battery is toast.... With a multi-meter across the battery you should read closest to 12.8 volts, when you hit the starter and your voltage drops below 12 volts you've got a dieing battery. When it dropped to single digits your battery is dead....
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Offline T Cro ®

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2015, 04:20:46 AM »
Quote from: mcman56 on March 18, 2015, 06:50:56 PM
Can a relay tick be normal with a battery issue?  Bike started and ran fine yesterday.

Many battery simply short out inside with no given warning whatsoever. Start it up go to the store walk out and try again and you got nothing at all....

Remember to KISS when dealing with an electrical issue start at the source of the voltage and make sure it is what it is supposed to be as nothing else will be normal if your voltage is not....
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Offline mcman56

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2015, 07:52:38 AM »
So...what goes on in the fuse box?  What are the diodes and relays for?  I have never seen or heard a box like this before so sort of zeroed in on it as an issue.
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Offline GeeBeav

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2015, 08:02:13 AM »
Power for the headlight, ignition, etc goes through the fuse box (aka junction box, j-box).

What you are hearing is relay "chatter". The relay needs 12 volts to close and stay closed.
The relay contact is closing, but the voltage is too low to keep it closed. It is cycling closed, open, closed, open, and making the clicking sound as this happens.
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Offline T Cro ®

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2015, 08:08:06 AM »
Quote from: mcman56 on March 18, 2015, 06:50:56 PM
Battery dropped to 2v with key on and then drifted up to 5....maybe when ticking was started so maybe I'm hearing a relay.  I'll take for a load test.  Battery almost 4 years old.  Bike ridden regularly in winter, on tender when weather demands a ride that gives ride less heat in summer. 

Can a relay tick be normal with a battery issue?  Bike started and ran fine yesterday.

That right there tells us a lot about your battery.... If your battery fell to single digit volts with just the key on that battery is all but a flat line...... If you had short somewhere massive enough to drop your voltage that low you would all but have smoke coming out of your ears much less the J-Box....
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Offline jworth

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2015, 09:08:12 AM »
Quote from: T Cro ® on March 19, 2015, 04:20:46 AM
Many battery simply short out inside with no given warning whatsoever. Start it up go to the store walk out and try again and you got nothing at all....

Remember to KISS when dealing with an electrical issue start at the source of the voltage and make sure it is what it is supposed to be as nothing else will be normal if your voltage is not....

I had a battery short out while driving down the road.  Instant death.   Was fortunate that there was an Interstate battery store within walking distance.
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Offline Summit670

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2015, 09:56:21 AM »
Agree that battery is suspect.

The jbox can be opened up by drilling the fused points.  That will allow you to inspect the circuit board for soldering cracks or corrosion which can happen.

The original recommendation was to make sure all was ok and then fill the area with RTV and I believe leave the cover off.

Not sure what the latest recommendation is but I put about 2-3 sheets of plastic wrap (Saran Wrap) over the back, then pressed the cover down and it has worked well that way for over 15 years or so.  It allows me to occasionally pop it open and inspect it.

Maybe about 5 years ago I took the board to an electronics shop/tv repair shop and asked them to touch up the solder points, many of which were cracking.  They did a very professional job and didn't even charge me.  It only took them 10 minutes or so.  They just said to keep them in mind if I ever need anything fixed and I've used them 2-3 times since then to fix tv's and appliances.
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Offline Thud300

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2015, 10:30:26 PM »
Battery X 1000. Dropped to 2 volts with virtually no load = paperweight
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Offline mcman56

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2015, 08:18:08 AM »
Battery is on order.  However, I do remember a few times when I pressed the starter button and nothing happened.  It only happened a few times at intermittent time periods but always in morning.  It worked on the second or third press.  Does this mean that I should open the Jbox and inspect?
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Offline turbojoe78

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2015, 08:43:11 AM »
May be the starter button / switch, they can get corrosion on the contacts that needs to be cleaned off.
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Offline Summit670

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2015, 11:20:20 AM »
I would open the JBox and inspect just to do it, but I don't think in this case it is related to your starting problems.  Sounds like you need a new battery anyhow so start there. 

The contacts can get corroded/dirty on the starter button.   Not that hard to take it apart and use some fine sandpaper or something to clean them up.  Just pay attention during disassembly on how things fit together regarding the throttle cables where they go into the housing.  Take a few pics as reference.
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Offline GeeBeav

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2015, 06:12:22 PM »
Batt is ON order  :-[
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Offline ManWorkinghere

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2015, 06:20:32 PM »
Quote from: mcman56 on March 18, 2015, 06:17:20 PM
I pressed the starter button and the whole bike went dead.  No lights or electrical functions work.  Battery voltage looks good.  Ground strap looks good.  12+ volts to the main fuse.  Then I noticed that there was a ticking sound when the key was turned on.  The tick got quicker the longer the key was on.  I traced it to the fuse box and the tick is likely arcing. 

It looks like the fuse box is heat staked together.  If I drill out the staked pins, could I reassemble with screws.  Can the box be fixed?

I recently had this same issue.  Since everything is easier to understand with Pictures, I made some.

The last pic shows a refurbished J-box that Larry Buck handled.  It was bought two years ago and not needed until now.  The bike is running fine off of it.  I am very glad I made that investment to have a spare available.

Here's my Flickr site with pics and a video showing the problem:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/8954079@N06/s5MYW6/


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......  are relays in the J-Box and if the main relay stuck on, it could cause  ............  the battery. The next time it does it, give the J-Box a tap, it's easier than taking off the ignition  ......
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The Bike - C10 / Re: Hit the starter button and nothing...
« by RFH87_Connie on December 05, 2013, 11:34:43 am »

...... , then look at the connections, then tap the j-box to see what happens. I hate things that " ......
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The Bike - C10 / Re: Ignition key turns, everything goes out
« by Jet86 on April 14, 2012, 07:59:32 am »

......  the next best thing by getting a new battery and J-box fixed. don't give up on the old girl and good  ......
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Offline mcman56

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Re: Fuse Box Failure?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2015, 07:37:37 PM »
Started right up with new battery
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