Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: SVonhof on October 03, 2019, 07:35:06 AM

Title: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: SVonhof on October 03, 2019, 07:35:06 AM
I rode in to work today and when I was coming to a stop sign leaving my house and downshifting, it was difficult to get it into 2nd gear from 3rd. Shifted up just fine, but it did it again as I got closer to the highway. Then, as I was waiting for the light to turn, I noticed the RPM's were a little low (bike was in 1st and I had the clutch pulled in). A slight release of the clutch killed the engine. Re-started and it took off fine and I had no issues the rest of the ride.

I have had times in the past where even with the clutch lever pulled all the way back, the engine is still catching the gears slightly (clutch plates grabbing). The clutch engagement is right at the beginning of the lever pull and has been the way since I got the bike.

I am close to being due for an oil change. The clutch fluid has been bled and replaced (~2 years ago?).

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: connie_rider on October 03, 2019, 08:17:40 AM
Sounds to be clutch related, not gear problem.
I would suggest a fresh clutch fluid change.
But, someone recently reported a broken star spring on a C-14.
So, that might be a possibility to consider.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: SVonhof on October 03, 2019, 09:30:37 AM
In the past, the difficulty shifting has come after a long day of riding and the bike sits overnight. I don't know if that would have anything to do with it, but it seems to go hand-in-hand.

The issue this morning though, seems slightly different as the last ride was just a normal commute ride (45 miles), not a few hundred.

I am at 42,000 miles now. Most miles I have ever put on a bike as the others get sold by around 30k and I move on. I am still very happy with the Concours.
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: SVonhof on October 03, 2019, 05:52:16 PM
No issues coming home. I will report back if it happens again.
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: strum on October 04, 2019, 05:27:54 PM
How old is the bike? how many miles? sounds almost like your clutch slave is sticking.hard to say . I think you should flush the fluid and go from there.
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: SVonhof on October 04, 2019, 06:41:25 PM
2009 with 42k miles on it. Replaced and flushed clutch fluid 10k miles ago.
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: SVonhof on October 15, 2019, 03:31:22 PM
Rode the bike in yesterday and had the same issue. With the bike in first, clutch lever pulled all the way to the bar, I hit the starter button and the bike lunged forward and basically stalled. Put the bike in neutral and hit it and it fired right up.

Once I was moving I didn't have any issues. Maybe the slave cylinder as strum says? I have never dealt with an issue like this, so I really don't know.
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: gPink on October 15, 2019, 04:57:20 PM
My clutch has acted up when the the master had foreign material partially blocking the return bleed hole.
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: Daytona_Mike on October 15, 2019, 05:09:23 PM
My clutch has acted up when the the master had foreign material partially blocking the return bleed hole.
Agreed.. 2 years ago?   That would be the simplest and the first thing to do.. flush and replace all the brake and clutch  lines and look at the color of the old  fluid. It has nothing to do with how many miles. It has to do with time and 2 years  is the recommended maintenance period.  Might also be time for a Master kit. 2009 is over 10 years old now.
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: SVonhof on October 15, 2019, 05:58:42 PM
Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: O.C. on October 16, 2019, 01:56:02 AM
I would also adjust your tick over to around, 1100 RPM  ;)   
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: maxtog on October 16, 2019, 06:10:12 AM
That is a really fast tick :)
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: O.C. on October 16, 2019, 09:05:34 AM
That is a really fast tick :)




The recommended idle speed is  1050 - 1150 RPM    :)   
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: SVonhof on October 16, 2019, 09:09:52 AM



The recommended idle speed is  1050 - 1150 RPM    :)   

Only time I had an issue with the idle speed was when the clutch was still holding on and slowing it down. Once I get this fixed, it won't be an issue!
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: O.C. on October 16, 2019, 09:11:44 AM
Only time I had an issue with the idle speed was when the clutch was still holding on and slowing it down. Once I get this fixed, it won't be an issue!

I hope you get your issue sorted  !   
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: maxtog on October 16, 2019, 03:04:12 PM
The recommended idle speed is  1050 - 1150 RPM  [/color]  :)

(I was joking on the word "tick" instead of what I presume was meant was "tach" :)  )
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: O.C. on October 17, 2019, 01:00:25 AM
(I was joking on the word "tick" instead of what I presume was meant was "tach" :)  )

 ;D  I prefer Tach to Tick  ;D   
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: Boomer on October 17, 2019, 03:16:56 AM
Tick-over is the English word used for what y'all colonials refer to as Idle, as in "it's ticking over nicely".
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/tick-over (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/tick-over)
It's not OC's fault y'all can't speak English!  :rotflmao: :popcorn:

Setting the tick over/idle to 1100rpm should prevent the stalling, but not if you have clutch problems.

It sounds like your clutch is not fully releasing.
This can happen if the plates have been replaced and the stack height was not set correctly.
It can also happen if the slave cylinder is partially seizing or if the oil is too thick.
I've seen this with a friend who used 20W50 in his bike.

1- Never start the bike with it in gear as cold oil will cause drag between the clutch plates and the bike WILL lurch forwards.
2- Always apply the front brake before starting or putting her into 1st gear.
3- Maybe consider using a thinner oil. If you have 10W40 maybe a 5W40 oil will work better, especially if you live in a colder area.
4- Strip, clean, and rebuild the clutch slave cylinder. If it is binding it will not separate the plates sufficiently.
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: maxtog on October 17, 2019, 05:58:25 AM
Tick-over is the English word used for what y'all colonials refer to as Idle, as in "it's ticking over nicely".

Oh!  Thanks.  Never heard of that before!

Quote
It's not OC's fault y'all can't speak English!  :rotflmao: :popcorn:

LOL- Most of us speak English and not British :)  :P
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: Poseidon on October 17, 2019, 06:13:00 AM
(https://compote.slate.com/images/5921ce76-ec8e-4e6c-8213-0735a2e1667b.jpeg?width=780&height=520&rect=1560x1040&offset=0x0)
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: tweeter55 on October 17, 2019, 03:14:57 PM
(https://compote.slate.com/images/5921ce76-ec8e-4e6c-8213-0735a2e1667b.jpeg?width=780&height=520&rect=1560x1040&offset=0x0)
Poseidon, you just made me itch all over.
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: gPink on October 17, 2019, 03:58:23 PM
DEATH TO TICKS
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: Poseidon on October 17, 2019, 09:43:28 PM
Sorry, I guess that is not the tick they were talking about.  :)
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: SVonhof on November 09, 2019, 03:59:47 PM
Finally got around to my clutch yesterday. When I removed the covers from the reservoir, this is what it looked like:
(https://i.postimg.cc/8jG9sQSb/clutch-fluid.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8jG9sQSb)

I used a Phoenix Systems Reverse Brake Bleeder and pushed all new fluid in and also cleaned out the bottom of the reservoir.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GRV800S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GRV800S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

I have not taken it out on a ride yet, but will do that tomorrow. I also lubed up the pivots for both brake and clutch and they feel better.

Oil and final drive oil change and tried to fix my fork seal again (MOTION PRO Seal Mate Fork Seal Cleaner) but I think the fork seals need to be replaced.
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 09, 2019, 04:49:57 PM
looks pretty normal, the clutch is used 20x more than the brakes, and the fluid does tend to need a bit of service.. good job.
I'll be doing ALL my fluids this coming spring, with exception of oil and filter, which has only 1k miles on it since last changeout.

wish I had a heated garage....
Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: gPink on November 09, 2019, 05:53:47 PM
looks pretty normal, the clutch is used 20x more than the brakes, and the fluid does tend to need a bit of service.. good job.
I'll be doing ALL my fluids this coming spring, with exception of oil and filter, which has only 1k miles on it since last changeout.

wish I had a heated garage....
 
 8)

Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 09, 2019, 06:30:41 PM
 
 8)

sick part is, I have a super nice small woodburning stove I used to heat my small house back in the 90's, but as I have 3 bikes, a mower, and a snow blower, along with assorted fuel cans in the double garage... I just can't bring myself to hook up and use that stove.. makes me paranoid...  so the stove sits cold, under the work bench... occupying space.

dammit.

Title: Re: Difficulty shifting this morning
Post by: SVonhof on November 22, 2019, 06:23:07 PM
I did the reverse flush 2 weeks ago and then didn't ride it until today. The lever-pull seemed lighter than before, but worked perfectly. No issues at all.

I hope this solves it.

Unfortunately, I have a fork seal leak that the Motion Pro tool cannot fix.