Author Topic: Worn rocker assembly  (Read 12133 times)

Offline DC Concours

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2015, 09:01:36 AM »
Ouch. Always painful to look at.

Don't know if you answered this before...but did you find out what precipitated to this happening to your engine?


I'd gladly listen to your bike but I am going to OBX until Thursday next week.  I'm over in Lorton, VA.  Most likely you are hearing the cam chain and as said before: "Happy valves are tappy valves".  When you don't hear them they are not closing fully (out of adjustment).  The rod issue sounds normal until it failed at a little over 80mph.  The bent rod never made any different sounds or caused a noticeable performance change either.  Maybe a little extra vibes from a slightly lower compression.

I'm not sure but perhaps the engines share the same casting molds for the blocks or at least the same design specs?  Maybe the same as the ZX9 which might be the same as the ZX11 back then?  The shop foreman called the piston before I told him so it seems to be a known scenario.  It still had about 2.5 quarts of oil in it when I got it home.  Just poked a nice hole in the seam.

Offline Brad Baerwald

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2015, 09:06:12 AM »
Yes DCC, I would like to know more about how that happened too.  ( I thought it was just me... or that you might have covered it at some other point here)
I'm just doing the best I can, with the little bit I got!

Offline RFH87_Connie

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2015, 09:06:38 AM »
Don't know if you answered this before...but did you find out what precipitated to this happening to your engine?

No.  I never heard a definitive answer but I think I remember that the discussion was that the oil passage was prone to be either not bored or cast well restricting the flow to the main bearing on #3 - but I could be mistaken.  This would apply to ALL of the bikes that used the same engine casting as ours.

Found this while surfing the net on a Kawasaki forum and sounds reasonable:

No one really understands how the #3 is the weak Link nowadays! Back in the day the 1984 900 has an Oil Supply tube that is 1 inch long between the oil Pump and #1 & 2 Mains, but for 3 & 4 the tube is brazed in at a 90 degree angle to this 1 inch tube and is about "5" Inches Long. So when you Port the Oil Pump (Wheelies and Stoppies moving the Oil away from the pick up) when the oil returns #1 & #2 are quickly Fed Oil and it takes a lot longer for #3 * #4. Even my ZX11 had the Exact same Oil Line!

I replaced the pan and had Terry Kizer (Mr. Turbo) make up a dual supply line which helps!

On the ZX12 they have separate oil supplies but again the oil Pick up is under #1 & #2 so the distance from the Pump is STILL Farther away!

« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 09:39:10 AM by RFH87_Connie »
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Offline RFH87_Connie

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2015, 12:05:24 PM »
More internet so it must be true:

I remember building a few ZX11's and the problem stemmed to a great extent from the oil hole in the cases not lining up with the oil hole in the main bearing closest to the number 3 rod. Either the cases or the bearing half had to be modified to assure proper alignment so the oil flow was not restricted. Lack of oil in this area caused #3 rod bearing failure due to oil starvation. There was also the standard oil pan bypass modification on the ZX11's that also helped with the problem.
“I can truly say I had rather be at home at Mount Vernon with a friend or two about me, than to be attended at the seat of government by the officers of State and the representatives of every power of Europe.” - George Washington

Offline Mettler1

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2015, 01:07:43 PM »
  OIL THREAD!! OIL THREAD!  ::)
 
    Well my oil is better than yours. :deadhorse:
'94 Concours 112,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,Torque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators,etc

Offline Brad Baerwald

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2015, 03:19:26 PM »
No Mettler1, I don't see anyone saying that here actually!

and yes there were all kinds of speculations as to the cause of the #3 bearing failure. Being a present day rider and owner of the bike that is MOST famous for the "#3" failure" thing AND having a spun bearing sitting next to my console (that I replaced)... the reason matters to me and Just like my Hydro'd Connie... I have NO interest in either things happening again!

I have come to the conclusion (personally) that most knowledge people feel the bearing failures are related to the oil pump sucking air!  So I have to keep the bike a little over filled (and yes that has messed with the seal on the water pump and I've had to fix that too)

ANY oil that is high in zinc (and other metals like it) are the best choice for this bike "ANY" (and I'm refering to oils that are designed for engine use of course!) so I am NOT in any way saying "one is better than the others"  except that oils that don't have these components are proven to deal poorly with "loading / shearing" issues.  I'm NO Chemist but when the oil pump draws air because the engine both pumps it too much oil to tquickly to the top end (high rev's) and has it's front wheel pointed at the sky..and happens to suck air for a millisecond... I want to deal with ANY oil that is less likely to allow "shear"  And I'm only going with what I've heard and seen personally protects my bike best.

so far "knock on wood" so good, almost 50k since the rebuild and NO other adjustments to the bike when I did it (Just bigger pistons) bike now has 70k on it... The bearing failed at 23k I hadn't had it more than a few months at that point
I'm just doing the best I can, with the little bit I got!

Offline Cholla

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2015, 03:34:25 PM »
Brad Penn is supposed to be good oil but four things...

1) why a partial synthetic,

2) what is the percentage of synthetic base stock,

3) is the synthetic Group III, IV or V stock, and,


NOW we have an oil thread.

A former co worker had a ZX something or other and he wheelied it a lot. #3 bearing went south.
4) what is the level of zinc? It may not be compatible with catcons.
Beware the Black Widows...Feared throughout the land!

Offline Brad Baerwald

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2015, 03:51:24 PM »
 :rotflmao:  VERY GOOD!  no Idea! (to all of that) and I don't understand "catcons"?

OH wait I think I know what youre talking about Catalytic converters (on the C14)... yeah DON"T DO IT!!! That much I do know.  The zinc will react with the catalyst and wipe it out... and THIS (as I understand it) is THE reason it's been removed from modern motor oils.  but again I'm NO chemist!

To be honest I was most worried about the clutch!!
I'm just doing the best I can, with the little bit I got!

Offline Cholla

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2015, 08:35:05 PM »
The stuff that's bad on clutches is molybdnum, which they added to replace the ZDDP.

Yep, catalytic converters.

We don't worry about stuff in oil, we got dry clutches... ;D
Beware the Black Widows...Feared throughout the land!

Offline Brad Baerwald

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2015, 10:15:49 PM »
You say'n the C14 has a dry clutch??
I'm just doing the best I can, with the little bit I got!

Offline Cholla

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2015, 05:43:54 AM »
No, we as in ME.
Beware the Black Widows...Feared throughout the land!

Offline Brad Baerwald

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2015, 07:28:53 AM »
hmmmm   O...... K.....   Sorry you lost me on THAT one!  (but don't be mad at me,  as i get wiser I realize how stupid I am) :doh:
I'm just doing the best I can, with the little bit I got!

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2015, 01:44:25 PM »
hmmmm   O...... K.....   Sorry you lost me on THAT one!  (but don't be mad at me,  as i get wiser I realize how stupid I am) :doh:

don't feel stupid, I saw that also... if anyone was being stupid it wasnt you, making the post he did does not coincide with effective knowledge on the Concours.... or information about same... besides, his clutch is dry because he read on the internet that his doesn't need oil...

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline Cholla

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2015, 02:28:45 PM »
Gee, MoB, you're such a class act. It's good to know there is only one of you...I hope. :P
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2015, 03:44:13 PM »
Gee, MoB, you're such a class act. It's good to know there is only one of you...I hope. :P


thanks for stopping in, and I've been working hard on being a class act lately, and pretty much given up being a smartazz.
I try to stay with the issue at hand, and actually offer assistance, but in your case I decided to break tradition, because you are special...

now, actaully there are more, and if Bubba Steve wasn't on vacation he would have made a similar, if not more direct posting.
in truth, you posted something not relevant, and in an attempt at humor (I suppose, in your mind), it could be easily construed by someone else not knowingly, as something from someone with longevity here....

arena posts don't count. either help someone, or not, but don't confuse someone and make them feel stupid.

and yes, there can be only one.....MOB that is.....

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline Cholla

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Re: Worn rocker assembly
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2015, 05:21:13 PM »
Thanks for proving my point.
Beware the Black Widows...Feared throughout the land!