Author Topic: Linked Brakes Fixed  (Read 71567 times)

Offline The Pope

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 792
  • Country: us
  • COG #9994 (NC AAD)
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2013, 01:07:12 PM »
This is from memory so bear with me.
If you look at the wiring diagram for the brake system there is a blue wire that runs from the rear master cylinder up to the brake control module for ABS linking etc. That has to be the feed to tell the module to activate the front brake best I can figure. My theory is that if you cut said blue wire (sacriledge to cut a wire in a harness it needs pulled out of it's connnector not cut which is why I haven't tried it yet) it SHOULD unlink the brake. I do not know what effect it will have on the ABS, if any though.
Again, just a theory and an untried one at that.

That's the wire (Blue w/red stripe) for the brake light. And yes it does go to the ABS Control Module, but it also goes to the light. There's also a Black wire that comes off of the rear brake, it also goes to the ABS Control Module. It's a ground wire.

So.... if you want to test this all out, just unplug the switch on the rear brake peddle. I don't think that this will unlink the brakes, but you will not have and brake lights when you brake only with the rear.  :o
The Pope
2011 C-14 Atomic Silver...... aka ImprovedSilverDammIt.

"The Universe is a contest between engineers making things idiot-proof and God making bigger idiots. So far, God is winning by a wide margin." Unknown author, well I don't know who said it.

Offline wildnphx

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 432
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2013, 01:11:31 PM »
The fix to Linked Brakes is very simple you guys over over complicating this.  Here is a picture of the fix...    ;D

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11333
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2013, 01:51:10 PM »
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats/w/AC 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! Member in good standing with the Knights of MEH.

Offline stewart

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 296
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2013, 02:28:58 PM »
That's the wire (Blue w/red stripe) for the brake light. And yes it does go to the ABS Control Module, but it also goes to the light. There's also a Black wire that comes off of the rear brake, it also goes to the ABS Control Module. It's a ground wire.

So.... if you want to test this all out, just unplug the switch on the rear brake peddle. I don't think that this will unlink the brakes, but you will not have and brake lights when you brake only with the rear.  :o

Yeah I doubt this will work. I just look at the wiring diagram and I can't imagine how a brake switch or light would unlink the brakes. While thinking about in the car 30mins ago, the linking is pressure controlled not via some switch so this must happen inside the ABS unit itself. Without a service manual and additional details of the inside of the unit I suspect the current solution is the best most likely.

http://www.cog-online.org/clubportal/clubdocs/1328/C14_2010_Wire_Diag.pdf
Stewart
2010 Concours14
COG 9380

Offline Cuda

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 782
  • Country: us
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2013, 07:45:13 PM »
I'm sure glad my bike CAME with fixed brakes
Old and SLOW                   COG 11405
Gods waiting room Naples
2011 Atomic  Silver

Offline northsouth

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 27
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2013, 07:55:09 PM »
I think you mean "Good-bye crappy linked brakes and also useful rear ABS"

Yes you are correct. I've been riding and racing all sorts of motorcycles for more than 30 years (not trying to brag, just facts)and I can't remember a single time when the rear brakes ever put me down. I just learned how to use them instead. Maybe this mod isn't for everyone, but for someone who likes to have more control over all aspects of the ride, and not be surprised by weird braking inputs, I'm all in for this mod.

Offline PlaynInPeoria

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: us
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2013, 08:46:08 PM »
... but for someone who likes to have more control over all aspects of the ride, and not be surprised by weird braking inputs, I'm all in for this mod.

And that would be me.
2012 "root beer" C14 - unlinked brakes, reflash, LED headlights, Walmart orange city lights, LOUD horn, Laam seat, radar detector for ahem, reasons.
2013 Aprilia Tuono, 2009 CRF-150F

Offline RandyN

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: us
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2013, 09:16:59 PM »
It does seem that a few people are annoyed by the brakes. Either some have it and others don't or maybe some learn to live with it or adapt. The brakes on it should not have been designed to be so far out of the normal parameters of modern motorcycle technology as to force us, the consumers, to have to change our riding technique or modify the bike. I love the bike except for the "weirdness" of the brakes. I hope Kawasaki will fix it in the future and be able to apply a fix to all that are effected, mine included.

I hope my mod will help others enjoy this great motorcycle. Do me and others a favor and speak up.

Here is a way to push them. Complain! Kawasaki USA contact info (949) 770-0400 and 866-802-9381

File a complaint with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration!!
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/


Offline Glennn

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 195
  • Country: au
    • Metric Rider
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2013, 10:46:40 PM »
I would pay someone to do this for me.  Curse all of you on the wrong side of the pond.
2012 Midnight Sapphire Blue 1400GTR
1999 Yamaha Road Star
Canberra, Australia
CDA #390

Offline The Pope

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 792
  • Country: us
  • COG #9994 (NC AAD)
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2013, 04:08:39 AM »
..... the linking is pressure controlled not via some switch so this must happen inside the ABS unit itself. Without a service manual and additional details of the inside of the unit I suspect the current solution is the best most likely.

The service manual doesn't give ANY details of the inner workings of the ABS Control Unit. The only way to find out is to take one apart. I've been looking on ebay, but all of the ones that I'm seeing listed are for the 08's & 09's.

Ok... I've been thinking about this issue some more.  :o  :banghead:  :stirpot:

I’m thinking that if you tie the two lines at the ABS unit that go to the front brakes together with a "T" or "Y" fitting. Then tie from the other side of the "T" or "Y" fitting to the front port of the ABS unit and block off the 2nd port for the front, you "may" un-link the breaks AND still have ABS to both wheels. The reason I think that the second port of the ABS Control Unit from the front of the bike should be the one blocked is because that port isn't there on the ABS Control Unit of C-14's that don't have linked brakes (2008-09 ABS models (can't remember if the linked brakes started with 2010 or 2011?)). My reasoning behind this is I “think” that one of the lines that feeds one of the front calipers is common (fluid path wise) with the rear.

 Now this may only unlink for what is called the low link setting (less aggressive setting) as the high link setting (I believe) sends fluid to both front calipers when the rear is applied.

Anyway, this is just my theory and without having an ABS Control Unit out of the bike to look at its inner workings, it's only a theory.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 09:13:40 AM by The Pope »
The Pope
2011 C-14 Atomic Silver...... aka ImprovedSilverDammIt.

"The Universe is a contest between engineers making things idiot-proof and God making bigger idiots. So far, God is winning by a wide margin." Unknown author, well I don't know who said it.

Offline C1xRider

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 836
  • Country: us
  • Where did all the posts go?!??
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2013, 10:26:20 AM »
The service manual doesn't give ANY details of the inner workings of the ABS Control Unit. The only way to find out is to take one apart. I've been looking on ebay, but all of the ones that I'm seeing listed are for the 08's & 09's.

Ok... I've been thinking about this issue some more.  :o  :banghead:  :stirpot:

I’m thinking that if you tie the two lines at the ABS unit that go to the front brakes together with a "T" or "Y" fitting. Then tie from the other side of the "T" or "Y" fitting to the front port of the ABS unit and block off the 2nd port for the front, you "may" un-link the breaks AND still have ABS to both wheels. The reason I think that the second port of the ABS Control Unit from the front of the bike should be the one blocked is because that port isn't there on the ABS Control Unit of C-14's that don't have linked brakes (2008-09 ABS models (can't remember if the linked brakes started with 2010 or 2011?)). My reasoning behind this is I “think” that one of the lines that feeds one of the front calipers is common (fluid path wise) with the rear.

 Now this may only unlink for what is called the low link setting (less aggressive setting) as the high link setting (I believe) sends fluid to both front calipers when the rear is applied.

Anyway, this is just my theory and without having an ABS Control Unit out of the bike to look at its inner workings, it's only a theory.

That's a very good theory, at least to unlink the front when applying the rear brakes.  Since the '10 and newer only apply pressure to the right front calliper when applying pressure to the rear, that "should" remove it from the equation.  I can vouch for that last sentence because my right rotor is thinner than my left rotor, probably because I've been running in "High Combined" mode exclusively for the last 25K+ miles, and I *use* my brakes.

As for unlinking the rear when the front brakes are applied, I don't see how this would solve it, but since the rear doesn't seem to be as obnoxiously linked as the fronts, it may be acceptable. 

This is a worthwhile enough idea, that I'm going to look around and see if I have the parts.  I hate opening up the brake system (due to the chance of introducing air bubbles that don't want to leave), but like many, I dislike the linked brakes even more.

After reading this last night, I was wondering about simply using an ABS unit from an 08/09.  Has anyone looked into that?
--------------------   BACK UP YOUR DISKS PEOPLE!! -------------------------------
2012 K1600 GTL 8), 2010 C14 ABS, 2002 HD FXSTDI, 2000 XT350, 1998 C10, 1983 V65 Magna, 1978 HD SX250

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11333
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2013, 12:40:21 PM »
You can't have mine.  I like it.

Seems the 08/09 bikes are going up in value....
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats/w/AC 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! Member in good standing with the Knights of MEH.

Offline Kinetic1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
  • Country: us
  • I really do have the best wife EVER! 2013 Tuono
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2013, 12:49:26 PM »
I highly doubt the combined/ linked effect is a function of pressure. That would be way too inconsistent to meet Kawasaki's standards. I am betting it is electrical in nature. Just a hunch.
No, really, she is the best and I can prove it...

Connie has been sold. Replaced with 2013 Aprilia Tuono V4 APRC

Offline PlaynInPeoria

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: us
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2013, 11:20:53 AM »
I emailed Guhl about a reflash and asked about killing the linked brakes. He said it wasn't in the engine ECU. There may be other ECU's but I doubt there is knowledge of them like there is of the engine, as people mod the engine ECU all the time, thus there is a market for it and detailed knowledge of it.
2012 "root beer" C14 - unlinked brakes, reflash, LED headlights, Walmart orange city lights, LOUD horn, Laam seat, radar detector for ahem, reasons.
2013 Aprilia Tuono, 2009 CRF-150F

Offline PlaynInPeoria

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: us
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2013, 11:22:30 AM »
Can I get a parts list to do this mod, Randy?  I am ready to start tearing into this.  I will be guinea pig #2, which is way easier than guinea pig #1.
2012 "root beer" C14 - unlinked brakes, reflash, LED headlights, Walmart orange city lights, LOUD horn, Laam seat, radar detector for ahem, reasons.
2013 Aprilia Tuono, 2009 CRF-150F

Offline RandyN

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: us
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2013, 11:58:50 AM »
I can't exactly say a parts list other than it was 2 in Qty. of an M10 x 1.0 bleeder adapter plus a rear brake line from a non ABS C-14 to go straight from rear master cylinder to caliper. I got it all from Galfer. See photo. Remember, it has to have an inverted flare to mate properly. The flare I did myself on a lathe, but a regular drill could be used. I'd say get an extra in case you goof one.

I am in the process of trying to decide exactly how to do another variation where The Pope mentioned splitting the line that goes to left front caliper so it goes to both and then blocking the right front line out of the ABS block. I think I'll have to have a custom line made. Dong this, in theory, should give me back ABS on the rear when I reconnect the rear lines. I find it all interesting to play with.

I forgot about the possibility of not replacing the rear line but to disconnect it from the ABS block and to connect the original lines together with another hose section (part # 43095-0559). It would probably be easier to do it that way than to pull all the stock rear brake lines out.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 12:46:45 PM by RandyN »

Offline PlaynInPeoria

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: us
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2013, 08:50:06 PM »
You say you "got it from Galfer".  Galfer only deals with dealers, not straight with individuals?   Or did you just call them up?

Here's a screenshot of the Ron Ayers site of a 2010 non-ABS rear master cylinder, note the hose goes from the rear caliper to the top of the master cylinder (A)
2012 "root beer" C14 - unlinked brakes, reflash, LED headlights, Walmart orange city lights, LOUD horn, Laam seat, radar detector for ahem, reasons.
2013 Aprilia Tuono, 2009 CRF-150F

Offline PlaynInPeoria

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: us
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2013, 09:28:38 PM »
Here's a 2012. Note that the fluid goes from the rear caliper, up to "northwest" then goes into hard line C, which attaches to the ABS module

Out of the ABS module comes line B, which attaches to the top of the master cylinder
2012 "root beer" C14 - unlinked brakes, reflash, LED headlights, Walmart orange city lights, LOUD horn, Laam seat, radar detector for ahem, reasons.
2013 Aprilia Tuono, 2009 CRF-150F

Offline RandyN

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: us
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2013, 10:06:13 AM »
Yes, I got the part from Galfer. I assumed they sold direct and they did. The part I bought was about $55 and the OEM at RIVA's site is $95.08. After reconsidering how I did it I think it could be done more easily. Check out the drawing "ZG1400 alt1" I've attached. That way of doing it fixes the brake issue but you end up with no rear ABS.

 In the second drawing "ZG1400 front brakes" I am going to try to have a custom made hose to connect both front calipers to the left output off the ABS block and then plug the right output with a rubber hose with a bleeder valve on the end to remove air from the line. The rear brake lines would remain stock. That way of doing it should have ABS in front and rear. Who knows if it will work though? I haven't called around yet on having the hose made so I'm not sure of cost and even if it can be done.

Offline PlaynInPeoria

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 545
  • Country: us
Re: Linked Brakes Fixed
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2013, 10:22:55 AM »
Regarding your first fix, why did you bevel/mill the bleeder plugs?  Was it leaking before you machined it? 

I am wondering if buying new regular bleeders wil fix that? Or maybe speed bleeders?
2012 "root beer" C14 - unlinked brakes, reflash, LED headlights, Walmart orange city lights, LOUD horn, Laam seat, radar detector for ahem, reasons.
2013 Aprilia Tuono, 2009 CRF-150F