"They stunned him until he complied...."

[gPink]

Torture is torture. Call it what it is. It may have it's uses but you can't dress it up and pretend it's something else.

[B.D.F.]

Well, we all have different takes and attitudes I suppose.

In my world, 'the jailers' do not have that say, "We The People" do, and they wrote that really big so even the 'hard of seeing' can figure it out. The jailers enforce OUR RULES, not impose their will on anyone.

They are also not empowered to 'teach anyone a lesson' on any subject. That is what courts, judges and juries are for, and readily available.

I think I understand your opinion, how it should be applied, to whom it should be applied and under what authority. And it would be frightening should you be in any position to abuse anyone using the 'public authority' as a shield or excuse.

Certainly the authorities must maintain control but I do not believe anyone suggested cutting that kid loose and letting him do whatever he wanted, and I know for a fact that I suggested no such thing. But as has been said over and over, he was strapped to a rugged chair clearly was not a threat to anyone, as has been said over and over before.

I live in a circle of people who have a hard time identifying 'truth, justice and the American way'; when I mentioned seeing this video: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/13/state-troopers-suspended-over-video-showing-beating-driver-after-pursuit.html  A relative told me that was merely media bias. Media bias? Sure looks like bicep / tricep / bicep / tricep / bicep..... to me. I wonder how the media biased the back of that kid's head with those LEO's fists? Ah, it must have been the angle the video was taken from; from the "correct" angle, they were respectfully handcuffing him and reading him his constitutional rights. Did the kid 'step in it'? Yep. Did he cause a bit of a ruckus? Again, yep. What happened when he did stop? He got out of the car and laid down on the road as he was told to do and the LEO's surrounded him, pistols drawn (all fine, correct, prudent and w/in both the law and any sane person's beliefs I believe) but then at least two LEOs got down on the ground and beat the kid's face into the asphalt.... repeatedly. They were clearly very angry (which is fine) but their actions are both criminal as well as very well defining that they cannot function in that capacity (LEO interacting with the public).

These debates will continue as long as more than two people draw breath. And that is fine. But when things get excessive, there is often a reckoning. We are seeing some of that now, and I suspect we are going to see a lot more of it before long at all.

BTW: I have noticed a substantial drop off in business at my local gun shop. Another thing I have noticed is that there are a LOT more young people, and a Lot more black people purchasing firearms. Note that this is a very white area so three people w/in eye- shot that are not together is a bit unusual; I am now seeing 8, 10 or more black individuals in a larger gun store all at one time, all appearing to be there independently. Of course I cannot tell how many police abuse victims may be there 'cause they are wearing shirts and the taser burns just do not show....  But as it gets more violent out there, I am thinking we (society) are going to run out of sadistic jailers before we run out of armed, cranky people.

Brian

Well, they're guards at the county lock up.  I'd say controlling the inmates is their job.  That doesn't make them sick.  And if you're one of the inmates, you've left the world of democracy.  You no longer have a say in how your day to day life goes.  hHe jailers have that say.  And if you break the rules there are consequences.  Now if little Johnny decides he's tougher and more stubborn than the guards are, what are they supposed to do?  Say Johnny's having a rough day and just let him be?  No.  Not even close.  They have to establish and maintain control from the very beginning of Johnny's stay.  I'm not sure what led to Johnny being put in a restraint chair, but I have an opinion that inmates who obey the rules don't get put in it.  And I'm just going to be very blunt and say that stupid hurts.  And it should.  And this little exercise served a far broader purpose:  all the rest of those model citizens on the wrong side of the glass are watching Johnny get his nuts zapped off and thinking to themselves, "I'm not doing whatever he just did."  I'll bet the jail was quiet as a  Monday morning church that night.

[BruceR]

I will save the pontification that you like to subject us all to and say  that yes we disagree on this issue. 

[B.D.F.]

Ah, the personal insult that tops your entire outlook.....   Excellent!

BTW- no such word as "Ponfification" in English. Well, I guess you could get someone to use it in a sentence is you tased them sufficiently. Lucky for you, 'tase' IS a word, as well as an act that can be sadistic, sort of a win- win, eh?

Brian

I will save the pontification that you like to subject us all to and say  that yes we disagree on this issue.

[BruceR]

Well pontificate is a word and I know you can understand what I meant.  And it's an observation after many years of seeing your long-breathed posts on any given number of subjects.  Not a personal attack.  Brian, I think you're a **** head.  Now that is personal.  And not what I'm implying either,  Just drawing a stark contrast so you can see my point.  So yes, I was just going to say we disagree and leave it at that but you also have quite a need to have the last word.  I don't have a need to try to prove I'm the smartest person in the room whenever I walk into one.  But have at it.  My opinion won't change one way or another.  Nor should yours.

[B.D.F.]

Tomatoe, tomato. You say pontification, I say schmuck. Tase on you small man, and hope to become a real person.... though you will never make it.

Mad, ain't ya'? And there is the difference between us: I know better than to be engaged by small people. Now granted, some of you have sucked me in in the past but now I know better.

But I do have to comment on you not being the smartest person in the room- I think you hit the jackpot there!   

Strap 'em down and tase 'em small man.

And BTW- you could change my opinion at any time with any reasonable, articulate discussion. By all means, tell me why those three people had to tase that kid so that I can understand it.

Let's see if I got the last word in or not. 

Brian

Well pontificate is a word and I know you can understand what I meant.  And it's an observation after many years of seeing your long-breathed posts on any given number of subjects.  Not a personal attack.  Brian, I think you're a **** head.  Now that is personal.  And not what I'm implying either,  Just drawing a stark contrast so you can see my point.  So yes, I was just going to say we disagree and leave it at that but you also have quite a need to have the last word.  I don't have a need to try to prove I'm the smartest person in the room whenever I walk into one.  But have at it.  My opinion won't change one way or another.  Nor should yours.

[B.D.F.]

He's coming back for another round!


ROFLMAO

Brian

[B.D.F.]

But he types slow.
 

"But just at that moment, as though at a signal, all the sheep burst out into a tremendous bleating of-

"Four legs good, two legs better! Four legs good, two legs better! Four legs good, two legs better!"

It went on for five minutes without stopping. And by the time the sheep had quieted down, the chance to utter any protest had passed, for the pigs had marched back into the farmhouse."
-go look that one up for yourselves but this is a real- life rendition.

Brian

[BruceR]

Remember my 'last word' statement?  And you typed an awful lot for some one who doesn't engage us small people.  And for the record, I'm not mad at all.  Not even a bit ruffled.  Please don't try to project anything on me.  You'll fail miserably. And you've already proved my point 100 fold without me ever typing a word.  I'll give you the definition of pontificate, since you seem unable to find it yourself.  Or do you realize yet that you made a typo and that's why your google search came up empty? 

noun
1.
the office or term of office of a pontiff.
verb (used without object), pontificated, pontificating.
2.
to perform the office or duties of a pontiff.
3.
to speak in a pompous or dogmatic manner:
Did he pontificate about the responsibilities of a good citizen?
4.
to serve as a bishop, especially in a Pontifical Mass.

I set definition 3 in boldface in case it wasn't clear.  Now let's explain it to the masses (my fellow small people):
To pontificate is to talk in a dogmatic and pompous manner. To pontificate properly, you need to be a know-it-all with very strong opinions and the urge to share them.
Kinda hits the nail on the head, doesn't it?  And all you have is tase away.  Silly man.  But please, give us another example of just how darn smart you are.  I'm in awe of your intellect. 

[B.D.F.]

 

Waiting on new batteries are you?

'Here, kitty, kitty..... '

Are you supposed to be this far out without your pack leader? This presents an odd situation because he has to be careful as he wants to sell stuff to the flock, and while he wants you surrounding him and barking and growling at them who would cast him in a bad light, he cannot have too much exposure over here 'cause he is not protected the way he is over there.

Or are you operating under the general umbrella of 'Get him!? Yeah, I can see how that might work.

But really, explain to all of us how those LEO's had to tase that guy some more while he was strapped into that chair because he had not yet learned his lesson. I promise I will listen to any and all points of view, although that pesky Constitution thingy might get in the way.

Now, on a serious note, minions like you will always be around but your leaders are going to be taking a beating now with video everywhere. Oh well, there are other countries you can ply your methods in, mostly in Africa but Asia too. Best of luck to you and your implements of torture.

Brian

Remember my 'last word' statement?  And you typed an awful lot for some one who doesn't engage us small people.  And for the record, I'm not mad at all.  Not even a bit ruffled.  Please don't try to project anything on me.  You'll fail miserably. And you've already proved my point 100 fold without me ever typing a word.  I'll give you the definition of pontificate, since you seem unable to find it yourself.  Or do you realize yet that you made a typo and that's why your google search came up empty? 

noun
1.
the office or term of office of a pontiff.
verb (used without object), pontificated, pontificating.
2.
to perform the office or duties of a pontiff.
3.
to speak in a pompous or dogmatic manner:
Did he pontificate about the responsibilities of a good citizen?
4.
to serve as a bishop, especially in a Pontifical Mass.

I set definition 3 in boldface in case it wasn't clear.  Now let's explain it to the masses (my fellow small people):
To pontificate is to talk in a dogmatic and pompous manner. To pontificate properly, you need to be a know-it-all with very strong opinions and the urge to share them.
Kinda hits the nail on the head, doesn't it?  And all you have is tase away.  Silly man.  But please, give us another example of just how darn smart you are.  I'm in awe of your intellect.

[B.D.F.]

Hey Bruce,

Let's pick this up again tomorrow, OK? I have to go tend to a few things.

Best Regards and have a great day (seriously, not sarcastically because you having a great day does not damage me in the least, and all else being equal, your suffering does me no good in exactly the same amount).

Brian

[BruceR]

Just thank me for expanding your vocabulary and it's all good.  I have no need to pick anything up.  My point about you has been made.  Tasing that guy was legal, whether you agree or not.  Was it excessive?  Debatable and we both know which side either of us stands.  Insults by you aside, there's nothing further to discuss,and I feel your personal insults would have a profoundly different tone if we were in the same room.  But that's the nature of the internet where normal filters can be ignored.  So indeed sleep well, revel in your smugness and I do hope you're in a part of the world where you can enjoy the eclipse at least in part if not total.

[B.D.F.]

Got a minute but should be enough- I can type.

Increased my vocabulary: Yep, I know one more imaginary word to go with the others: "Pontification", a Bruce Reafsnfer (sp?- seriously, I cannot remember you last name but you are the fellow in TN if memory serves), to go along with Ironical and electroncial. Not likely to become a favorite of mine though, it lacks any amusing qualities. Like the questions 'Is that battery or electric', hence 'electroncial'.

Oh yeah, you have made your point- taze them till they get what they have coming!

Interesting how my insults are an aside while yours are apparently, what? Important? Meaningful? Do we need a new word to describe them.... perhaps 'Importantical'?

Good point- Tasing the guy was legal, hence the suspension of the officers involved.

Profoundly different tone if we were in the same room: Now if you mean we could have a civil conversation, perhaps. If you are adding threats to your insults, Yawn.

Ah, the eclipse: well Bruce, If I may call you Bruce, I honestly do not know if I am in the eclipse zone or not. If so, will take a look. No big deal to me either way though- I remember the last one in the mid- 90's here was something of a let- down. Not a true and full eclipse so the corona was not really visible: I thought I saw it on one side but really, it may have been my imagination.

But the same wish back at you, if you are in the path of the full eclipse. Cool beans IF is is full enough to actually see the corona. It is not usually visible and well worth taking a look if you can.

And if you are the Bruce in TN that I am thinking of, my sincere condolences regarding the recent events that are attacking parts of Southern History. One of my most respected Confederate participants was (is) Nathan Bedford Forrest, a native of TN I believe. An outstanding soldier, officer and gentleman; I can readily support his conviction and iron will in support of his cause without having to appreciate or believe in all that he was or did. But it is that way with everyone, is it not? Perhaps you and I could even find some things we do agree on and respect each other for in behavior or accomplishment?

Back to the topic at hand: yes, we clearly disagree. But I would and will accept a civilian board's adjudication on the matter, if such a board exists, and move on. Over time, the situation will improve if 'The People' want it to improve, and video being taken from all directions, seemingly all the time, will go a long way to advance that idea and ideal. The kid in the chair has a lawsuit in process, and everyone will have their day in court, and I like to believe a better 'truth' will come out of this.

More video, more civilian oversight, less tolerance of misbehavior and it will all get better for everyone.

Brian.

Just thank me for expanding your vocabulary and it's all good.  I have no need to pick anything up.  My point about you has been made.  Tasing that guy was legal, whether you agree or not.  Was it excessive?  Debatable and we both know which side either of us stands.  Insults by you aside, there's nothing further to discuss,and I feel your personal insults would have a profoundly different tone if we were in the same room.  But that's the nature of the internet where normal filters can be ignored.  So indeed sleep well, revel in your smugness and I do hope you're in a part of the world where you can enjoy the eclipse at least in part if not total.

[BruceR]

Skipped right over your head, did it?  I was making the point that you can ot possibly let some one have the last say.  You always reserve that for yourself.
The only point I'll make is that the officers were placed on administrative duty while the matter is investigated.  I think that's fairly standard procedure for most departments.  As for threat?  Not hardly.  I find they are wholly unnecessary.  And pontification is not a made up word.  Just one you haven't heard and perhaps not used often in regular conversation.  Despite your assumption that I'm low intellect because...why?  Oh right.  I don't agree with you.  So you choose to equate me to a 3rd world dictator.  Or his minion.  And do some more homework on Forrest.  I do pass the monster statue of him on I65.  And hear nightly about having his bust removed from the state house, and live close to a subdivision with his name on it.  But aside from helping to form the kkk & then denouncing it, there's some darkness in his past.  But I digress.  So please don't let my pontification on the matter cause you to lose any sleep.   See what I did there?  I think I'll use that word, whether real or imaginary, in every thread now! If you'd like to truly know the history of Franklin, TN I can take you to some great sites that were key to the battle.  There will be no discussions of religion or politics, and we will have some good food, drinks, and nice roads to ride.

[B.D.F.]

Did you not put in your last word about four posts ago?

Seriously, go have a happy eclipse, if it travels through your area. And be sure to wear eye protection!

Brian

The only point I'll make is that the officers were placed on administrative duty while the matter is investigated.  I think that's fairly standard procedure for most departments.  As for threat?  Not hardly.  I find they are wholly unnecessary.  And pontification is not a made up word.  Just one you haven't heard and perhaps not used often in regular conversation.  Despite your assumption that I'm low intellect because...why?  Oh right.  I don't agree with you.  So you choose to equate me to a 3rd world dictator.  Or his minion.  And do some more homework on Forrest.  I do pass the monster statue of him on I65.  And hear nightly about having his bust removed from the state house, and live close to a subdivision with his name on it.  But aside from helping to form the kkk & then denouncing it, there's some darkness n his past.  But I digress.  So please don't let my pontification on the matter cause you to lose any sleep

[BruceR]

Laughs as he point up, mouths 'Who has to have the last word?' and chuckles at how easy it is to troll people if you know what buttons to press.  Goodnight all.

[B.D.F.]

Yep, you are indeed the clever one. You got the 'tater!

Now, back to the point of this thread, the tasing of that kind strapped in a chair. It happened in TN, and I find it very interesting the only person finding it right and fitting that this happened is also in TN, which speaks poorly of due process in that state. Of course, he was merely 'trolling'.... probably so were the officers with the tasers. Them Tenesseans are a laugh- riot lot, always kiddin' around. Yeah, that is it..... But then again, we are used to that; things change slowly in the some sections of the south and changing the 'hearts and minds' of the locals can be difficult. Still, the tide is rolling in and it seems to be rolling faster all the time so I feel confident that issues exactly like this tasing example will accelerate change. If not from within, then from without but either way, the changes they are a' commin'.

No matter, I plan on going west, and a long way north of the Mason- Dixon line at that. Not that it matters, the line means nothing west of Pennsylvania, and my plans go much further than that... past the rust belt in fact. Hopefully things will stay pretty much the same for the remainder of my life. I wish the very best on the next generation but honestly cannot gauge how that will go because the people themselves are different than we (the old generation) are and so we cannot judge the right or wrong of their thinking or the results of their ideas IMO. They will shape the future world but again, hopefully not before I get out of this one, at least a section of this one.

Brian

Laughs as he point up, mouths 'Who has to have the last word?' and chuckles at how easy it is to troll people if you know what buttons to press.  Goodnight all.

[BruceR]

Oh Brian you can sleep soundly and change your travel plans.  I'm not originally from Tennessee.  But you'll find the general mood in the Nashville area to be quite liberal.  So by all means feel free to come visit this fine state.  What changes need to happen, exactly?  I look around and I judge it a very nice place to live. Good weather, beautiful countryside, wonderful people.