Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Thunderlizard on September 30, 2020, 06:15:28 PM
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A while back, I "upgraded" my headlight bulbs to some really bright LED's. At first, I was pretty impressed with how far they reach and the amount of light they throw off. I actually ended up lowering the beams a tad because it created a lot of oncoming driver "High beam flash" (if you know what I mean). But a couple of weeks ago, on the way back from a 3-day ride in the mountains, I started to notice that while they were fine on the straights, I was really having trouble on hidden curves or over hills. Not that I expect these things to go around corners, but I think that because they are so bright, my eyes don't adjust or see the unlit areas as well? Also, the light is whiter (6500K), which means it won't penetrate mist or fog as well either.
So, my question to you all is have you used another bulb that may be more yellow (3500k-400k?) but still put off decent lumens, and does it help you see better than the brighter, whiter bulbs? I know this may sound nuts, but there are posts about this very thing from "lighting specialists" online, so I'm thinking my impression is legit? ???
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That's a good question, and I will be watching this discussion for input from others.
I tried some of the LED's and they were bright, but had no cut off at the top. Blinded oncoming traffic.
So I bought some LED's that had a distinct cut off at the top, and also seem to put out more light to the sides.
{I think the bulbs are built to work better with the reflector}
Bottom line, they work better for me, and light up the sides pretty well.
Detail; The bulbs I bought have to be clocked {installed right side up}. If installed wrong, they just make a glare.
{Is it possible yours are not clocked?}
Also, I left the OEM running bulbs in my bike. They look yellowish compared to my LED's, but possibly add some light in the other spectrum? If so, possibly the mix covers the range better?
I'll close with, I tried the blue bulbs in my C-10 "a couple of times; when that was the rage".
They were bright as heck, but I couldn't see anything {no contrast} and I removed them immediately.
Ride safe, Ted
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Motorcycles are tough to get light to shine in the direction of the turn because they lean and so dip that side of the headlights. Not sure what the beam spread looks like with your LEDs but the stock C-14 headlights are really quite good for halogen lighting. I upgraded mine to HID long ago and really like the light output; it still have a very reasonable beam with reasonable light cut- off (not too much light above the cut- off line) but they are much, much brighter than stock.
As to the color, tungsten lighting is toward the warm or yellow side of white while 6,500 K is well to the cool or blue side of white. It is generally accepted that 4,000 K (usually 4,100 K in practice) is the whitest light. Tungsten or halogen lamps are down in the 3,000 K range. White or slightly warm (yellow) light is best for illuminating objects so humans can see the best definition.
And of course, the lights Kelvin or color rating has nothing to do with light output other than again, the brightest lights per watt are in the 4.100 K color area. Anything warmer (lower in Kelvin) or especially colder is reduced in light output because it is missing some of the white spectrum. Put another way, 40 watts will only make so much light and reducing the color output by restricting the color only reduces overall light output.
Unfortunately some years ago Mercedes came out with projection headlights with a distinct blue band in the cut- off line. They are not blue headlights but rather again around 4,100 K in color temp. but when those lights are moving toward us, we tend to see that blue line bounce past our eyes. This made us perceive them as blue and has created a bit of a cult following with the 'kids'. In addition to appearing harsh to oncoming traffic, blue shift lighting is not very good at helping us see at night. And they have the additional downside of making white reflective things, such as the band around a stop sign tend to dazzle with reflective light, which is detrimental to the owner of that very lighting.
A while back, I "upgraded" my headlight bulbs to some really bright LED's. At first, I was pretty impressed with how far they reach and the amount of light they throw off. I actually ended up lowering the beams a tad because it created a lot of oncoming driver "High beam flash" (if you know what I mean). But a couple of weeks ago, on the way back from a 3-day ride in the mountains, I started to notice that while they were fine on the straights, I was really having trouble on hidden curves or over hills. Not that I expect these things to go around corners, but I think that because they are so bright, my eyes don't adjust or see the unlit areas as well? Also, the light is whiter (6500K), which means it won't penetrate mist or fog as well either.
So, my question to you all is have you used another bulb that may be more yellow (3500k-400k?) but still put off decent lumens, and does it help you see better than the brighter, whiter bulbs? I know this may sound nuts, but there are posts about this very thing from "lighting specialists" online, so I'm thinking my impression is legit? ???
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That's a good question, and I will be watching this discussion for input from others.
I tried some of the LED's and they were bright, but had no cut off at the top. Blinded oncoming traffic.
Indeed. There are a *LOT* of very poorly designed and crappy bulbs out there. And we are ALL suffering because of them. Plus, there are all from non-name places that constantly change models. So if you CAN find a great one, like I did, it will be gone before anyone else can buy the same one. Mine have a sharp cut-off and relatively even lighting, once properly adjusted. The bulbs are INCREDIBLY sensitive to being rotated. Even a few degrees off and the pattern is ruined and no sharp cut-off. And THAT, I believe, is the #1 problem with our being blinded by others (#2 being aimed too high, and #3 being crappy designs).
See this thread for the whole saga:
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22202.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22202.0)
Also, I left the OEM running bulbs in my bike. They look yellowish compared to my LED's, but possibly add some light in the other spectrum? If so, possibly the mix covers the range better?
I changed the city lights to bright yellow LED, and converted both front turn signals to very bright yellow LED that blink OFF instead of on- so they are on all the time when not signaling. This drastically improves the visibility and footprint of my bike from a distance while being safe, legal, non-annoying, and attractive. It is a safety feature but adds nothing for my driving visuals.
Explore that even longer saga here:
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2236.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2236.0)
and also:
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=19650.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=19650.0)
and also:
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18301.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18301.0)
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Motorcycles are tough to get light to shine in the direction of the turn because they lean and so dip that side of the headlights. Not sure what the beam spread looks like with your LEDs but the stock C-14 headlights are really quite good for halogen lighting.
The reflector forms all of the pattern, except the top cut-off. The LED bulb just has to comply with the H4 filament location the best it can and position is incredibly important. If it is done correctly, the pattern should be the nearly same as with the stock halogen bulbs- but since it is whiter and brighter, flaws in the reflector pattern will be more visible. And the slight alignment issues with the LED light source not being a very tiny continuous filament (or gas) creates some additional artifacts. The worse the design, the worse the artifacts.
The C14 doesn't have a straight cut-off all the way. It bends the reflection of the bulb's cutoff (which is a metal shield) to have a "kick" on both sides. I believe that is intentional to help light the sides higher, which is useful when leaning. Unfortunately that kick does place the beam in other vehicles' faces, even when adjusted correctly. Fortunately, it is only a small section.
Ideally, a motorcycle really needs either self-leveling headlights, which is very rare. Or cornering lights that come on only when tilted, to add light where it is needed (either one side or the other). They must turn off when not tilted, because they would blind other drivers. That type is also rare, but the H2SX has such lights, which I thought was interesting. I do wish I had something like that for night riding in curvy areas, especially where I can't use high beams (due to oncoming traffic).
I upgraded mine to HID long ago and really like the light output; it still have a very reasonable beam with reasonable light cut- off (not too much light above the cut- off line) but they are much, much brighter than stock.
That was my second headlight upgrade (HID). They are much brighter. But they also are VERY hot, and damaged some of my reflector. They also take time to warm up, and the transformers are annoying. When LED finally got capable enough, I ripped out the HID and used LED and I like them much better. I do think the LED pattern is better, although it is a bit less light and the light is not as consistent across everywhere (because of the 4 emitters). Much easier to install, better light color, instant-on, no transformers, MUCH less heat (although they do have large heat sinks on the back, fanless- you don't want fans), and much less power consumption.
As to the color, tungsten lighting is toward the warm or yellow side of white while 6,500 K is well to the cool or blue side of white. It is generally accepted that 4,000 K (usually 4,100 K in practice) is the whitest light. [/quote]
But sunlight is around 5,500K on average- so I think that is probably the best color for headlights, since our eyes evolved to see the world in that light. LED lighting has a worse CRI than HID, though... so the resulting colors we see are not as "correct" when illuminated with most LED lighting. Cheaper bulbs have a worse CRI, and you will probably never see a CRI rating on headlight bulbs, unfortunately.
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Self- leveling headlights would not do any good in corners because the center of down- force is always through the C/L of the bike and matches the bikes' lean angle. What would be outstanding would be a pair of 'fill' lights on each side, with the inside (the inside of the corner turned) light turning on at, say, 5 degrees. That would not be too harsh on oncoming traffic.
Yes, a key point is that light source shape, size and placement in the light housing. Tungsten lamp manufacturers keep this tolerance very tight, typically + / - 0.002" to hold the reflector's beam to very high standards. The HID arc is extremely close to the size and shape of the tungsten filament of an H4 lamp and so is an ideal replacement. The light emitting portion is the size of a grain of rice. I have not seen any LEDs that even come close to this size and shape, nor are any made to the emitter (the LED in this case) is suspended on a vertical plate so the light source is available to the entire 180 spans of the reflector. And to add light LED headlamp lights add LED emitters, making it impossible for them all to be in the correct space of the reflector. As you may be able to tell, not a big fan of them myself- speaking about retrofitting a LED into a tungsten headlight ass'y. Headlights designed originally for LEDs where the manufacturer can control both where the LEDs are located and then shape the reflector to best and most correctly use that light is something completely different. And yes, I realize retrofitting an HID lamp into a tungsten headlight ass'y is also a retrofit, the HID light source (the arc itself) is very, very close to the size and shape of the original coiled tungsten filament. Not perfect but I would give it an 85% overall rating (and of course that is both a WAG as well as my opinion :-) ) as a viable replacement.
Yes, sunlight is somewhat cooler and appears to our eyes as neutral but a big part of artificial lighting depends on the spectrum of light produced. HID lamps are missing significant portions of that spectrum and so will appear white at around 4,100 K. Look at all the HID lamp manufacturers, I mean the real or OEM ones, not the Chinese knock- offs and you will find that is the color they chose to make their lamps emit. I had a pair of HID's where one was 4,100 K and the other was 5,000 K and the higher frequency lamp produced noticeably blue- shifted light. 6,500 K is very well into the blue and on the way into the violet average from an HID lamp. HID lamps are cheap enough now that various colors can be tried on one vehicle and the difference will be obvious, both in light output as well as color efficiency.
Ideally, a motorcycle really needs either self-leveling headlights, which is very rare. Or cornering lights that come on only when tilted, to add light where it is needed (either one side or the other). They must turn off when not tilted, because they would blind other drivers. That type is also rare, but the H2SX has such lights, which I thought was interesting. I do wish I had something like that for night riding in curvy areas, especially where I can't use high beams (due to oncoming traffic).
But sunlight is around 5,500K on average- so I think that is probably the best color for headlights, since our eyes evolved to see the world in that light. LED lighting has a worse CRI than HID, though... so the resulting colors we see are not as "correct" when illuminated with most LED lighting. Cheaper bulbs have a worse CRI, and you will probably never see a CRI rating on headlight bulbs, unfortunately.
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Self- leveling headlights would not do any good in corners because the center of down- force is always through the C/L of the bike and matches the bikes' lean angle.
I didn't say what method of self-leveling. Obviously gravity-leveling would not work on a motorcycle. It would have to be something much more complicated.
What would be outstanding would be a pair of 'fill' lights on each side, with the inside (the inside of the corner turned) light turning on at, say, 5 degrees. That would not be too harsh on oncoming traffic.
Yep- those are the "cornering lights" I mentioned. I would love to have those.
I have not seen any LEDs that even come close to this size and shape, nor are any made to the emitter (the LED in this case) is suspended on a vertical plate so the light source is available to the entire 180 spans of the reflector.
Exactly. That is the main problem with LED H4 bulbs. They have improved over the years, though. The designs keep pushing the emitters closer together and with better arc dispersion. And using fewer, brighter emitters. But I think there is probably only so much that can be done.
The miracle moment for LED came a few years ago with the invention of "LED filament" bulbs. Those can and do correctly imitate filaments and were a game-changer for bulb technology. They look like tungsten filaments, emit light in ALL directions, use no heat sink, and require no complex reflectors in the bulb (which never worked correctly). But they can't emit the same amount of light per length (yet) of the "filament." So I am not sure if or when they could be used within an H4 bulb. It is an exciting prospect, though.
When they came out, I could finally replace all the bulbs in my bathroom vanities and chandeliers and any other place where the bulb is actually visible, or needed true filament-like light dispersion.
As you may be able to tell, not a big fan of them myself- speaking about retrofitting a LED into a tungsten headlight ass'y.
I am on the fence. I like the results of SOME of the bulbs, and not others. It is a crap-shoot. And when people choose badly, we all suffer. And it is happening that way a LOT. For sure, the correct thing would be to replace the entire reflector assembly. I have not seen that option available for any vehicle, simply because of the expense and complication.
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These are the LED Headlights that I installed.
Cheap and effective..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BEAMTECH-H4-9003-LED-Headlight-Bulbs-High-Low-Beam-50W-6500K-White-CSP-Fanless/264740365902?hash=item3da3c1664e:g:3lgAAOSwVXdcHGT- (https://www.ebay.com/itm/BEAMTECH-H4-9003-LED-Headlight-Bulbs-High-Low-Beam-50W-6500K-White-CSP-Fanless/264740365902?hash=item3da3c1664e:g:3lgAAOSwVXdcHGT-)
If you look closely, you will see that the upper LED is offset, and has a plate over it to block the light.
The location of the LED's, and the block plate, are what control the cut off on this brand.
Like Thunderlizard, I also wonder if a different heat range {than 6500K} would give more definition to what we see?
Ride safe, Ted
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(although they do have large heat sinks on the back, fanless- you don't want fans)
I've been very happy with my LED headlight bulbs which were purchased so long ago I'm sure me searching for a link now would be a waste of time,
but they were at that time one of the first few that had the shield to give good cutoff on the low beam. They do have fans however and
so they will fail at some point...I'm just wondering what will happen when they do. Will the LED just go off?
..will it overheat and start melting things like those pain in the rear HIDs did?..anybody have the LED fans fail on theirs?
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This is why I fitted additional spotlights as they fill in the blind spots.
I don't have LEDs fitted to the headlights on the C14 but have LED spots mounted on the mirrors.
My C10 has an LED headlight bulb and many many spotlights. 😁
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They do have fans however and so they will fail at some point...I'm just wondering what will happen when they do. Will the LED just go off? ..will it overheat and start melting things like those pain in the rear HIDs did?
Nothing will melt- not enough heat for that with LED. Just enough to cook the diodes. Mostly likely the light with just suddenly go off, permanently. Before that, it might start to dim or flicker. LED emitters do not like heat.
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Both of my Indian Roadmaster's have LED's. Great light going straight. Turning not so much because of the sharp cutoff. Scare the crap out of me the first I rode in the dark on a moderately twisty road. The C14 stock lights are so much better if they are aimed correctly. One of our Indian group members was talking about going LED and I talked him out of it. Indian has now come out with a moderately priced adaptive LED headlight and I think I'm going to go with that. It has special LEDs on the sides that come on when turning/leaning right and left.
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Sorry for the long delay, (been swamped with work and personal) but some great info. Thanks Fellas.
I've still not decided on what bulb but based upon my research, I'm definitely considering a bulb in the lower K range. Like VA Jim, night riding on twisties is kinda scary. I'm hoping a less blue light will improve things a bit.
Point to note, I was pretty careful to clock the existing bulbs, which are Beam Tech (same as ConnieRider, I think). No problems with the quality - they've been good so far, but again, they're too high in the K range.
If anyone finds LED's that are below 5000K, please let me know (preferably 4100k?).
Stay safe!
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they've been good so far, but again, they're too high in the K range. If anyone finds LED's that are below 5000K, please let me know (preferably 4100k?).
Honestly, I don't think you will find anything that low. The lowest I have ever seen is 6000K.
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1st post and wanna help back for all the good advise I've received here as a lerker
I picked up a 2015 C14 with 2100 miles on it about a month ago and started doing the things to it that made it "mine". I have a long list of previous bikes and have ridden for 50 years. started when i was 5... :D
so the stock lights were okay but i know LED's rock and I got these from a suggestion here
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BEAMTECH-H4-9003-LED-Headlight-Bulbs-High-Low-Beam-50W-6500K-White-CSP-Fanless/264740365902?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/BEAMTECH-H4-9003-LED-Headlight-Bulbs-High-Low-Beam-50W-6500K-White-CSP-Fanless/264740365902?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649)
and these
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-AUXITO-194-168-T10-LED-Interior-Light-Bulbs-6000K-White-W5W-921-192-2825-24H/313178670081?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-AUXITO-194-168-T10-LED-Interior-Light-Bulbs-6000K-White-W5W-921-192-2825-24H/313178670081?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649)
install is a breeze and well I'll let the pictures tell the story. Best 20 minute improvement besides the lowering pegs so far!
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photo
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photo
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and complete.
night and day difference. and I thought the stockers were okay... lol
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and complete. night and day difference. and I thought the stockers were okay... lol
Well, the important thing isn't how they look from that angle, but the beam patterns they emit. The throw, the cutoff, the fill, the scatter, etc. Also, I strongly recommend amber "city lights" (the small decorative bulbs) instead of white, for improved contrast and safety.
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Well, the important thing isn't how they look from that angle, but the beam patterns they emit. The throw, the cutoff, the fill, the scatter, etc.
Something that was mentioned years ago (I think it was Brian?), there is a ground pattern that the original bulbs and the HID bulbs would throw that slightly proceeded on both sides of the bike. You can see it distinctly in lower right of this photo: (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24699.0;attach=32560;image) (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24699.0;attach=32559;image)
You can see how the limits of focus for an LED (currently available) in a filament designed reflector are by comparing it to this one:
(http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24699.0;attach=32562;image) (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24699.0;attach=32561;image)
Regardless, I still think that the currently available LEDs with the shields for the low beam are a desirable improvement even if their patterns aren't perfect. But if you get the chance to follow 5 or more C14s with original filament or HID headlights at night as they cast those patterns in front of them as they weave the curves ahead of you I think you'll find the view mesmerizing. 8)
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Yeah, they are called 'tell tales' and they are there to show the rider that the headlights are actually on and working. There is no other reason for them and they are not a functional part of the headlight, outside of being an alert of course. That said, I find most or all C-14 riders do not know they are there and so I guess they are not working to alert anyone of anything anyway. They do work with HIDs in place but I would not personally avoid a lamp that did not produce them anyway- it is easy enough to check headlight function whenever pulling up toward glass or even a constant surface such as a garage door.
Something that was mentioned years ago (I think it was Brian?), there is a ground pattern that the original bulbs and the HID bulbs would throw that slightly proceeded on both sides of the bike. You can see it distinctly in lower right of this photo: (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24699.0;attach=32560;image) (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24699.0;attach=32559;image)
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Yeah, they are called 'tell tales' and they are there to show the rider that the headlights are actually on and working. There is no other reason for them and they are not a functional part of the headlight, outside of being an alert of course. That said, I find most or all C-14 riders do not know they are there and so I guess they are not working to alert anyone of anything anyway. They do work with HIDs in place but I would not personally avoid a lamp that did not produce them anyway- it is easy enough to check headlight function whenever pulling up toward glass or even a constant surface such as a garage door.
Thanks Brian, I didn't know they actually had a name and purpose, but I mostly mentioned them to point out the focus differences of even the good LEDs.
So Brian, after you get a C14 and get the most important farkles transferred over...are you going to finish the projector headlight project (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=10405.msg127091#msg127091)?
Bye the buy the by..all those progress photos are missing from that thread, in case Andrea is looking for something to do. ;D
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The projector project is actually finished other than permanently attaching the lens (it is stuck there but not weatherproof). And yep, they would go into the new bike (new or used but new to me) should I get one.
I got Photobucketed when Photobucket went to a fee based plan and is holding lots 'o people's photos hostage until we pay up. I moved to Imgur but of course all the links buried in old posts do not know that :-)
Andrea looking for something to do.... yeah, she wants me to tell you she is really enjoying your poll and asked me to start a poll of my own about whether or not I should get a bike when the house is half- finished and we are sleeping in the dining room. Well, she thinks it is a dining room but really it is the downstairs bedroom. I maintain that the house is pretty close and besides, it is much easier walking around on the second floor without all those pesky walls getting in the way- you can just kind of bee- line it to wherever you want to go. It actually makes me think the first floor is a little lacking what with all this plaster, tiles, appliances and accoutrements in general. I mean really, a 4" pipe in the floor works fine as a toilet provided one is careful, right? Sure it takes a couple of minutes to remove and then reapply the tape (the toilet is also the trap so there is nothing to prevent the.... er, aroma from wafting out of the pipe when the fixture is not in place). When did we all get so lazy anyway? It is not like you have to go outside or anything!
P.S. To any Limeys or any English speakers who were educated in English by Limeys: In the US, we keep the first floor on the first floor. You know, the first floor one steps onto when entering the house. The English apparently have moved the first- floor to the second floor for reasons unknown. I do not know if the next floor above is the third floor or the second floor in the UK. And I have no idea what they call the first floor..... maybe the pre- first floor? The first floor B.C.? The upper basement?
Thanks Brian, I didn't know they actually had a name and purpose, but I mostly mentioned them to point out the focus differences of even the good LEDs.
So Brian, after you get a C14 and get the most important farkles transferred over...are you going to finish the projector headlight project (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=10405.msg127091#msg127091)?
Bye the buy the by..all those progress photos are missing from that thread, in case Andrea is looking for something to do. ;D
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Yeah, they are called 'tell tales' and they are there to show the rider that the headlights are actually on and working. There is no other reason for them and they are not a functional part of the headlight, outside of being an alert of course.
I have always noticed them, but never thought they were intentional. I guessed they were just an artifact, or irregularity in the reflector.
The projector project is actually finished other than permanently attaching the lens (it is stuck there but not weatherproof). And yep, they would go into the new bike (new or used but new to me) should I get one.
I was wondering whatever happened with that. A projector is a more ideal solution. Compact, effective, more control. Especially nice if coupled with the advantages of an LED light source (although I know yours was an HID project) for low power, low heat, and long lifespan.
I got Photobucketed when Photobucket went to a fee based plan and is holding lots 'o people's photos hostage until we pay up. I moved to Imgur but of course all the links buried in old posts do not know that :-)
Which is why you should upload photos to the forum, rather than posting vulnerable links which will, inevitably, break :)
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I do not believe LEDs are the best choice for low power, low heat and long lifespan; HIDs outperform LEDs in all those areas. There is some perception that LEDs are very efficient but that is not true when compared with HIDs coupled with the ideas that they are simpler as well as more rugged. In fact, LEDs require a rather elaborate power supply, give off a lot of heat (lowering efficiency) and when used at high temperature, solid state devices tend to be both short lived and and much more prone to a higher failure rate. At this point in time, I believe HIDs used in a one or two headlight configuration originally designed for tungsten lamps are superior to LEDs.
LEDs in housings and lenses made for them originally are a different story. Once the power supply is built, it is relatively simple to power more LEDs with the same unit. Doing that allows each LED to be used at less than max. output, extending the lifespan and returning them or getting much closer to the original robustness of solid state components. And it becomes easy to design much smaller individual units (light source, reflector, lens and housing) and simply use more of them to achieve whatever is desired for light output. In fact I saw a Zero (electric motorcycle) for the first time and that is exactly what they do- use smaller LED light packages and just gang them to get the intensity, and to some degree the pattern that is wanted. It also makes using high beams easy as they are instant on, unlike HIDs which take two seconds to come to 75% power, making individual high and low beams impractical and forcing the designed to either use a tungsten high beam or use a dual pattern lamp housing which effectively blocks nearly half the light when using low beams only.
Yeah, my projector light housing is resting quietly. I had really forgotten about it until again looking at C-14's. The thought of farkeling up a new C-14 is a bit daunting as I think about all the junk I changed or added to my '08 and will want ALL of it on a new bike. And another problem riding a new bike home for any distance- lots of comfort and convenience on my C-14 that allow me to ride a long way. Not sure how far I can ride a stock bike, although I could have some parts shipped to the place where the new bike is purchased and install them there, such as the saddle, tall windshield, pegs and similar. But that creates the problem of shipping all the brand new debris (the parts) back as well. What horrible first- world problems, eh? :-\ ;) ;D
I generally do not like to upload photos to specific web sites such as a forum because it may prevent me from having the ability to control such photos in the future. As times change, it is nice to be able to go back and remove or alter a photo, especially in these 'moving target' and ever tightening P.C. situations. A photo that was amusing at one time may not be in the future, and a photo of an item perfectly normal now may become controversial or worse in the future. So I tend to like photo sharing sites where I can edit the photos in the future and also control access to them, at least that is the theory.
I have always noticed them, but never thought they were intentional. I guessed they were just an artifact, or irregularity in the reflector.
I was wondering whatever happened with that. A projector is a more ideal solution. Compact, effective, more control. Especially nice if coupled with the advantages of an LED light source (although I know yours was an HID project) for low power, low heat, and long lifespan.
Which is why you should upload photos to the forum, rather than posting vulnerable links which will, inevitably, break :)
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I do not believe LEDs are the best choice for low power [...] LEDs in housings and lenses made for them originally are a different story.
That is what I was referring to- a projector LED headlight.
Yeah, my projector light housing is resting quietly. I had really forgotten about it until again looking at C-14's. The thought of farkeling up a new C-14 is a bit daunting as I think about all the junk I changed or added to my '08 and will want ALL of it on a new bike.
Go for it!
And another problem riding a new bike home for any distance- lots of comfort and convenience on my C-14 that allow me to ride a long way.
You can do it- it is just one way :) Seat you can take with you. I mean, you have to get riding gear and helmet there anyway. My main concern would be temps- it is approaching the time you would need heated clothing (if not already).
But that creates the problem of shipping all the brand new debris (the parts) back as well. What horrible first- world problems, eh? :-\ ;) ;D
Strap it on! Bungie time!
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First approved light replacement using LED in Germany ... for now only H7 ....
https://www.motorradonline.de/ratgeber/osram-night-breaker-nachruestung-legal-led-h7-lampen/ (https://www.motorradonline.de/ratgeber/osram-night-breaker-nachruestung-legal-led-h7-lampen/)
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P.S. To any Limeys or any English speakers who were educated in English by Limeys: In the US, we keep the first floor on the first floor. You know, the first floor one steps onto when entering the house. The English apparently have moved the first- floor to the second floor for reasons unknown. I do not know if the next floor above is the third floor or the second floor in the UK. And I have no idea what they call the first floor..... maybe the pre- first floor? The first floor B.C.? The upper basement?
We call the one at Ground level, the Ground floor, the one above it the 1st floor, then 2nd floor, etc.
If you live in a house in which the "Ground floor" is raised off the ground, then chances are you are not in the UK, or your house is in a high flood risk area.
In the USA, most of your houses are on posts or stilts, so are raised off the ground with a crawlspace underneath most of them. If building with wood this makes sense, but if building with brick it doesn't. In the UK, wood houses are rare, brick is common.
I guess it all comes down to the locally available building materials and how you build. :-)
W.r.t. LED vs HID, I prefer the LEDs.
The biggest problem with HID in H4 form is that it requires a physical movement of the bulb, normally via a solenoid, to switch from low to high beam and in my experience this is what breaks first.
LEDs have zero moving parts, so long as you don't go for the 3GigaWatt 10Million Lumens versions that require fans to cool them.
The H4 LED in my C10 has lasted 5 years/40k miles/2 crashes so far and still works perfectly.
Yes, it does have an external box, but it's smaller than the HID ballast box it replaced and gives off less heat than the HID ballast box.
Cooling is passive with a large heatsink but there is plenty of room for that on the C10.
The one fitted to my C10 is nearly identical to this but being older has the external box as well.
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/miniature-and-subminiature-bulbs/h4-led-fanless-headlight-conversion-kit-with-compact-heat-sink-4000-lumensset/3929/8565/ (https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/miniature-and-subminiature-bulbs/h4-led-fanless-headlight-conversion-kit-with-compact-heat-sink-4000-lumensset/3929/8565/)
My C14 still has the OEM bulbs as I find that the light pattern is excellent and the brightness is more than adequate for my use.
I do have 2 LED 10W spots mounted on top of the mirrors that only come on with high beam.
I bought a set of LEDs for it but have never gotten round to fitting them. :rotflmao:
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Yep, that makes sense- our houses are not built on stilts but concrete foundations buried in the ground past the frost line and rising at least 8" above ground level, where the actual house construction starts. What is under a house is pretty dependent on what part of the country it is in- we have full basements or 'cellars' in the northeast but much of the south builds directly on the ground in what we call slab building. The southwest often does use short vertical wooden struts to build on but these again sit on concrete piers.
Yep, you are right about the bi-xenon lights failing- I have had two of them fail on me. Fortunately they tend to fail in the default, low beam position so at least they are not horrible for oncoming traffic. On a motorcycle I always carry a spare bulb, a regular halogen bulb in the event a headlight fails a long way from home, in the middle of the night, etc.
I find not installing farkles on bikes really keeps them fresh and nice looking and working. I have a set of crash bars, brand new, sitting in the shipping box for better than 10 years now and they of course look brand new. The bike not so much but we do have to make sacrifices. The next set I would like to think I will really install but who knows.
In the USA, most of your houses are on posts or stilts, so are raised off the ground with a crawlspace underneath most of them. If building with wood this makes sense, but if building with brick it doesn't. In the UK, wood houses are rare, brick is common.
I guess it all comes down to the locally available building materials and how you build. :-)
W.r.t. LED vs HID, I prefer the LEDs.
The biggest problem with HID in H4 form is that it requires a physical movement of the bulb, normally via a solenoid, to switch from low to high beam and in my experience this is what breaks first.
My C14 still has the OEM bulbs as I find that the light pattern is excellent and the brightness is more than adequate for my use.
I do have 2 LED 10W spots mounted on top of the mirrors that only come on with high beam.
I bought a set of LEDs for it but have never gotten round to fitting them. :rotflmao:
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I have a set of crash bars, brand new, sitting in the shipping box for better than 10 years now and they of course look brand new.
If it is a full set (front/rear) of 2nd gen Canyons, those will probably fetch a very decent price now, if you don't use them on your new bike (which you should). If they are 1st gen, much less value and you can't use them on anything recent you buy at this point.
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I installed this projector kit: https://www.theretrofitsource.com/motocycle-stage-ii-dual-CRK-CYC-2?quantity=1 (https://www.theretrofitsource.com/motocycle-stage-ii-dual-CRK-CYC-2?quantity=1)
It did require me to remove the headlight assembly from the bike and bake it in the oven to remove the front lens to install it. The light output is insane. I added angel eyes for better visibility in daylight, they are switch back so they are white unless I use the turn signals then they flash amber. They do have a very flat cut off so I also added some LED fog lights mounted where the reflectors are on the front wheel so they turn as I corner. I used oven cleaner to remove the chrome from the stock reflectors and painter everything flat black inside of the stock housing. The lights come with a harness that lets everything run off of the battery. I have been running them for 4 years now and here is what I have noticed. The up side is more visibility to oncoming traffic, and much brighter and very white focused light (4300K). With my black bike the police LASAR is very ineffective now, anything over 50 yards and they cant lock in on me so between that and my radar detector no tickets in a long time. The down side is the light dipping issue that is somewhat solved with the fog lights, and the complexity of the system. If a light goes out is it the ballast, igniter, bulb, or harness? It takes a lot of swapping sides to figure it out. I am trying to remove some of the complexity so recently tried using LED bulbs instead of the HID bulbs but I don't like the color output and they are dimmer. I am getting ready to try some Hella 55 watt halogen bulbs in the projectors next to see how that works.
sorry about all of the bugs on my headlights, I just finished a long ride.
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more photos
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It sure looks good.
Ride safe, Ted
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Well, I know it's taken a while, as you can imagine, I got pulled in various directions. I'm gonna blame it on the 'Rona...
After searching repeatedly for a lower K value LED and coming up empty, I decided to take a different tack. I installed a set of driving lights - inexpensive spots mounted on my Canyon bars a while back, more for the purpose of enlarging my footprint to oncoming traffic. To keep from flashing oncoming drivers, I installed a weatherproof rheostat on the dash so I can easily dim them, in addition to a lighted button switch on the left handlebar to totally turn them off if needed. As you can imagine, these are whiter than white, but as mentioned they're less for my driving illumination and more for being seen. Having said that, I decided for poops and giggles to order some yellow window tinting film, the kind designed to heat stretch over the outside of light assemblies, and I removed the Lexan lens cover and installed 2 coats of this film on the inside of the waterproof lens. Th resulting yellow light made a huge difference. And with the rheostat, I can adjust the volume to match conditions and get as much amber/yellow as needed to cut through the night. Cheap, easy fix...problem solved. Not thrilled with the look of the yellow lens when the bike is off (it is growing on me though), but when the lights are on, I'm on the bike, so I don't have to look at it! And the added visibility is well worth it. It actually looks way less yellow when lit, than when not. (of course, a lot of things look different when I'm lit...I digress...)
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I am on the fence with adding visibility. Great for safety but I like to stay under the radar if you know what I mean. I ride 95 per cent rural areas and 2 lane roads. The PO put on a modulator. I dont use it to often but one of the few times I did A HP stopped me and said they are illegal.I know its not per federal guidelines but didnt say anything. I have driving lights for those rare times I get stuck after dark. Going to stay incognito.
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The C14 has twin headlights and they are good, even with OEM halogen bulbs in them. Yes, mine are still OEM after 75k miles and 13½ years.
I find they need a little assistance on high-beam but low beam is good unless you are riding in middle-of-nowhere roads where illumination of the road-side is needed to be able to spot wildlife. Personally, in those circumstances, I slow down to suit how much I can see and that helps with animal avoidance too.
I did consider fitting LEDs when I was still commuting in the dark, but eventually decided that being slowed down by the reduced visibility was a good thing.
The C14 is way more capable than I am!
The C10 on the other hand has a pretty poor single headlight that needs lots of assistance.
I now have mine just about where I want it, but it ain't pretty.
I'll try and get some pics this weekend so you can all have a good laugh. ;)
I have 4inch "Dominator" high-low beam headlights mounted inside the crash bars running H4 LED bulbs (25W, 3000lm each) and the main headlight is running a 35W 4000lm LED.
When on low-beam they light 180° in front of me so I can see to the sides as well, the range of the main headlight is much better than standard, but the cut-offs on all 3 bulbs ensure that I don't blind any oncoming traffic.
On high-beam I also have several small 10W LED spots mounted on the fork legs, mirror mounts, and 2x10W on each crash bar that fill in the gaps in the headlights coverage and it's like DAYLIGHT.
The limiting factor on the C10 is the bike, not me, so having great lighting doesn't make me any faster.