Making the Shodabeen mountain tuning safer

[katata1100]

I like the tune and like the better engine braking that comes with it. However , when you use just engine braking to slow down, your brake light won’t get brighter and the soccer mom drinking her venti in the SUV might not know your slowing down and rear end you.
What’s a C14 rider to do?
Enter the StS rear brake module.
Remove the tool box caddy, then that plastic frame around it, held by two Allen head bolts. You’ll see a wire tie down secured by a 10mm nut. Remove it, take about 1” of sheath off splice wires in there.
I used velcro to attach next to tool caddy.
You can pick solid or flashing mode ( I picked flashing) I drove around block accelerating and slowing down using only engine braking. Each time, my wife ( following in her car) saw the rear light flash- it works!
I also installed their automatic turn signal kit and it works real well. It’s actually watching it work. Both
Devices use accelerameter sensors ( like in your phone ) to work. I think the cost for both was around $150.

[maxtog]

Engine braking in traffic can be VERY dangerous.  A friend I ride with does this all the time.  Since I am the "fast" bike, I always follow (not lead) and he over-engine brakes all the time and sometimes it catches me by surprise.  It is amazing how quickly a bike (especially a smaller/lighter one) can slow with engine braking.  I think I have finally trained him to "tap the level a few times" as a warning or he is going to get rear-ended by a car one day, for sure.  This is something I have ALWAYS done, even when planning to manually brake.  I am a fan of those "G" sensor brake lights, although I don't really need one, since I am already "programmed" to give warnings manually.

[Rhino]

Hmmm... This is good advice. I'm going to look into it.

Is this what you have?

https://www.amazon.com/Smart-Brake-Module-modulator-System/dp/B079NN72MK

[katata1100]

That’s it
But I think if you go to their website, they might have a special on this when purchased with the auto turn signals and those really rock.
The install time for the brake module should be under 30min.

[maxtog]

There are also products such as the Vololights  https://www.amazon.com/Vololights-Motorcycle-Downshifting-Installation-Waterproof/dp/B00MEQ25X8  and GearBrake https://www.amazon.com/GearBrake-GB-1-Smart-Brake-Module/dp/B00ODR69QK

[This is a good thread, although the "subject" line isn't great/relevant.  Thus, it will be harder to find, later...]

[kzz1king]

[Does the smart turn turn on and cancel the signal or just cancel the signal? Thanks.
Wayne

uote author=katata1100 link=topic=23669.msg295732#msg295732 date=1535302872]
That’s it
But I think if you go to their website, they might have a special on this when purchased with the auto turn signals and those really rock.
The install time for the brake module should be under 30min.
[/quote]

[katata1100]

It just turns them off. Uses sensors to determine when and it probably works better than any stock system.
I discovered that my mccruise doesn’t work with the stop module. When Cruise tells bike to slow down, the module notices it and flashes the brake lights. That then turns off cruise ( its same as tapping a brake)
I think a work around would be to set up relay between module and mccruise switch. Turning on cruise control would then turn off this brake module.

[just gone]

It just turns them off. Uses sensors to determine when and it probably works better than any stock system.
I discovered that my mccruise doesn’t work with the stop module. When Cruise tells bike to slow down, the module notices it and flashes the brake lights. That then turns off cruise ( its same as tapping a brake)
I think a work around would be to set up relay between module and mccruise switch. Turning on cruise control would then turn off this brake module.

I wish I knew more about how this is wired, but just off the top of my head perhaps a diode inserted someplace might allow it all to work correctly. That is if the brake light switches supply power to the brake light in parallel with the module but the diode would prevent back powering of the switch circuit (and thus prevent  the relay coil being powered) when the module activated the brake light. Your solution should work too if you don't want the brake light to come on when the cruise is on.

[B.D.F.]

Yes, that would work to allow the CC to work but as you stated, it would not allow the CC to flash the brake light when the vehicle was slowing down while the CC was engaged.

You could use the same relay to wire in series with the brake light and the McCruise so that the brake light circuit to the CC was open whenever the cruise was turned on. That way the brake light would get power and flash / illuminate as needed but the CC would not sense the brake light until you manually engaged one or both brakes.

Brian

It just turns them off. Uses sensors to determine when and it probably works better than any stock system.
I discovered that my mccruise doesn’t work with the stop module. When Cruise tells bike to slow down, the module notices it and flashes the brake lights. That then turns off cruise ( its same as tapping a brake)
I think a work around would be to set up relay between module and mccruise switch. Turning on cruise control would then turn off this brake module.

[katata1100]

The cc is turned off when the brake light is lit.
The only way I see it to work is to have a always closed relay hooked up
To the brake module. When I turn on cc, brake module is turned off.Turn off cc, brake module
works.
When you think about it, cc operation is the time I’ll need the flashing brake the least. City driving
is where I need it the most and where I’ll use cc the least.
I ordered a relay off of amazon,I’ll dig up the manual for my mccruise,
Sounds like Labor Day weekend work for me.

[B.D.F.]

The alternative I suggested would be to use a N.C. relay in the circuit that goes from the brake light (relay in the case of a C-14) to the CC. When the CC is engaged, the relay would be energized so that it would be open, and the CC would not sense the brake light being applied by the CC. When you manually engage the brake lights via either front or back brake, the CC would disengage, the [brake light relay for the CC] would drop out and the N.C. [brake light relay for the CC] would again close.

This way you would still have functioning brake lights reacting to the vehicle slowing down via the CC but without the usual disengagement of the CC.

What you are suggesting would also work fine but at the expense of losing the function of the new brake light function while using the CC. In the way I describe, you could have both a fully functioning CC plus the benefit of the brake light module even when the CC is being used.

Brian

The cc is turned off when the brake light is lit.
The only way I see it to work is to have a always closed relay hooked up
To the brake module. When I turn on cc, brake module is turned off.Turn off cc, brake module
works.
When you think about it, cc operation is the time I’ll need the flashing brake the least. City driving
is where I need it the most and where I’ll use cc the least.
I ordered a relay off of amazon,I’ll dig up the manual for my mccruise,
Sounds like Labor Day weekend work for me.

[Rubber_Snake]

[Does the smart turn turn on and cancel the signal or just cancel the signal? Thanks.
Wayne

uote author=katata1100 link=topic=23669.msg295732#msg295732 date=1535302872]
That’s it
But I think if you go to their website, they might have a special on this when purchased with the auto turn signals and those really rock.
The install time for the brake module should be under 30min.

I saw an install video for the turn signals and you have to put tiny pads in the turn signal switch mech to keep the lever from sticking left or right.  Basically, you push the lever to activate the light and it returns to center.  After that, the system will automatically cancel the signal after you’ve made your turn, changed lanes etc.  It may be possible that pushing the lever inward would cancel the system, but I’m not sure.  Personally, I like having physical control of the signal.  I’m one of those rare people who try to use their signal for every lane change and turn.

[katata1100]

The alternative I suggested would be to use a N.C. relay in the circuit that goes from the brake light (relay in the case of a C-14) to the CC. When the CC is engaged, the relay would be energized so that it would be open, and the CC would not sense the brake light being applied by the CC. When you manually engage the brake lights via either front or back brake, the CC would disengage, the [brake light relay for the CC] would drop out and the N.C. [brake light relay for the CC] would again close.

This way you would still have functioning brake lights reacting to the vehicle slowing down via the CC but without the usual disengagement of the CC.

What you are suggesting would also work fine but at the expense of losing the function of the new brake light function while using the CC. In the way I describe, you could have both a fully functioning CC plus the benefit of the brake light module even when the CC is being used.

Brian

After reading your post three times, I got it. I guess I need a schematic to try it out. I've got some scrap electronics in the garage, I'll look for a diode (bet there is one in an old wall wart), splice that in front of where the module is and see how that works.
 If that doesn't work, I'lll try what you said.

[katata1100]

I saw an install video for the turn signals and you have to put tiny pads in the turn signal switch mech to keep the lever from sticking left or right.  Basically, you push the lever to activate the light and it returns to center.  After that, the system will automatically cancel the signal after you’ve made your turn, changed lanes etc.  It may be possible that pushing the lever inward would cancel the system, but I’m not sure.  Personally, I like having physical control of the signal.  I’m one of those rare people who try to use their signal for every lane change and turn.

The push in to cancel function doesn't function after the mod. If you want to cancel, just push the switch in the direction that activated the light and it will turn off. You do have control over it. It won't always turn off if you do a very gradual lane change (where your angle to the ground doesn't change).
I've noticed that it is correct most of the time and works much better than the ones that came stock with my '86 Madura 1200. I wished the c14 came with them to begin with. After driving with these, I can't imagine a stock system working any better. Most turns see the lights turned off a couple of seconds after the turn is completed. If you are on freeway and turn the signal on but not turn, it will go off on its own after about 14 seconds.

[kzz1king]

The turn signal canceler could be a safety feature if you are like me. I had a gal do a left in front of me. After giving her a dirty look I discovered my turn signal was on.
Wayne

[B.D.F.]

Yeah, I had to turn that over in my own mind a couple of times before I posted it too.

The basic difference is that what I am suggesting would use the new relay not to isolate the brake light or brake light module, but instead basically 'shield' the cruise control from sensing the output of the brake light module while still allowing it to sense a manual application of the brake lights. If used that way the relay- circuit would also need a diode to separate the two sides of the same circuit.

Diodes are inexpensive but unfortunately, now that Radio Shack is mostly gone (I believe a few stores are still open), you have to mail order them usually. Not a problem if you buy them in quantity along with other components but a real pain when you need a $0.01 diode and it is $7.95 for shipping. :-(

Brian

After reading your post three times, I got it. I guess I need a schematic to try it out. I've got some scrap electronics in the garage, I'll look for a diode (bet there is one in an old wall wart), splice that in front of where the module is and see how that works.
 If that doesn't work, I'lll try what you said.

[The Pope]

For the issue in regards to the CC being disengaged by the module ....

...... just add some of those LED Brake Lights and connect this module to them only. (aka.... a seperate brake light system....)   

Sometimes you guys just try to over engineer things. Remember..... K.I.S.S.   

[B.D.F.]

Yep, that would certainly work also. Good idea.

Brian

For the issue in regards to the CC being disengaged by the module ....

...... just add some of those LED Brake Lights and connect this module to them only. (aka.... a seperate brake light system....)   

Sometimes you guys just try to over engineer things. Remember..... K.I.S.S.   

[lather]

The thing I dislike about decelerometer activated brakelights is they activate on upshifts. At least the one I have does. Mine flashes on each shift as I accelerate from a stop. I have the HUB, Heads Up Brake with the helmetmounted LED. It is designed to integrate with the brake system but I opted to just activate the helmet light. Since I also have Hyperlights installed I really don't want to have a full blown light show every time I shift.

[Rhino]

My Multistrada has CC built into the ECM. I now wonder how a module like this will effect it.
I'm assuming this is how you would use diodes to isolate the module from the brake light circuit.
Also wonder how the .7 voltage drop across the diode will effect the light.

Wire to lights -------I>i------0---------Brake Lights
                                          |
ST5 module-------I>i---------|