Ebola victim in the U.S.

[Racer Boy]

Yet what?

As stated earlier, the Ebola virus only seems to survive in a narrow longitudinal band found in Africa and some parts of Asia. Also, the virus is transmitted via body fluids, just like HIV or SARS, and our hospitals here are very familiar with dealing with the protocols used in treatments for those patients.

It's extremely unlikely that any of us here in the US are at risk.

[VirginiaJim]

All it would take would be someone coming from Africa via other destinations or stowing away as an illegal immigrant or crossing the border illegally.  It's only a matter of time before it gets here unaccompanied by any sort of protections.  We're wide open.

[B.D.F.]

Wow, too bad someone didn't mention that earlier in the thread..... oh wait, I did! :-)

Ebola is found only in a very narrow climate range. It would either not do well here or more likely, just not survive at all.

Oil threads have proven to be far more of a problem here in the US.

Brian

Here is a link to a very good article on the whole Ebola-in-the-US hysteria thing. It's a science-based article, and if you have don't have time to read it, you can rest easy, Ebola isn't a big threat to us in the US of A.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ebola-outbreaks-science-versus-fear-mongering-and-quackery/

[B.D.F.]

I think you are missing the how that would play out, Jim.

Someone from Africa gets to the US and is infected with Ebola. Before said human gets too ill to function, he / she walks around, shaking hands, buying and drinking coffee, eating in restaurants..... So what? He / She will not transmit the disease without some type of bodily fluid contact. But let's think the worst: this fellow is dashingly handsome and likes to visit.... 'houses of ill repute'. How many people can he infect? 10, 20, 30? How many people can they in turn infect? A few hundred? No matter- the virus is self limiting in its spread because of the transmission mechanism. This is exactly why AIDS and Hepatitis C have not cut down hundreds of millions of people; the disease simply cannot spread among enough people to cause a pandemic. And those diseases allow the victim to live for YEARS, not weeks, so they can infect a lot more other people and still they have no entered mainstream populations on any significant basis.

Let me put it this way: are you afraid of getting AIDS Jim? Hepatitis C? And we know both of those diseases are all over the place in the US. But old, boring, sport touring riding grunts like us are simply not at risk (OK, some ridiculously low risk but really....) for those diseases. You are at far less risk of getting Ebola. We are more in the "I've fallen and I can't get up" while drunk circles. The media is making a big deal out of this- don't let them lead you down the terror path by the brass ring they expect to find in you nose.

Brian

All it would take would be someone coming from Africa via other destinations or stowing away as an illegal immigrant or crossing the border illegally.  It's only a matter of time before it gets here unaccompanied by any sort of protections.  We're wide open.

[VirginiaJim]

Convincing arguments but I'm not convinced.... color me skeptical.   I truly hope that you are right, though.

[Strawboss]

 If I'm hysterical about the Ebola virus coming to the U.S. via an infected doctor simply because of an opinion formed by someone who has read that article, a scientifically based one at that, that says we have nothing to worry about, well, as I said, being a paramedic and being somewhat paranoid about being exposed to everything has kept me in good stead these 28 years, call me hysterical, I've been called worse, but don't call me late for dinner.   It will be years before we even know if this was a sound decision, by then it will be too late.

[B.D.F.]

Well, if we can discuss this rationally, let's look at this: AIDS has been in the US since 1980, right? It is absolutely a risk for anyone in the medical community, including you being an emergency services provider, but IT IS NOT a threat to the GENERAL PUBLIC. Now I think we can all agree on that one. AIDS simply does not get into the general population and spread there. Sure there have been a few cases but it just has not gotten to be anything even close to an epidemic and has even become less of a threat over the years due to education, very simple medical procedural changes (dentists now wear gloves, etc.).

But if you folks remember, the media made a big deal out of AIDS back in the olden' days too- it sounded like we were all going to have it before the next weekend, remember?

But when the 'Flu' hits a modern country, it spreads through the population like wildfire. That is because it is spread by airborne transmission, not direct contact with bodily fluids (easy boys!). But the lethality rate of Influenza (most strains) is low so not a huge number of people die as a result.

The one that is scary, from a general society point of view, is the virus that is spread via airborne transmission AND has a high lethality rate such as the "Spanish Flu" of 1918 (which was not in any way Spanish).

Ebola, AIDS, Hepatitis C and similar viruses are very delicate and are not easily transmitted. Therefore they are simply not much of a threat to the population as a whole.

Hey, I am all for worrying one's little socks off like Mary Jane Tinklepants but let's at least pick something worth worrying about. I mean honestly, this is a motorcycle forum where virtually all of us ride motorcycles..... Ebola ain't the thing posing the big hazard to us methinks.

Brian

If I'm hysterical about the Ebola virus coming to the U.S. via an infected doctor simply because of an opinion formed by someone who has read that article, a scientifically based one at that, that says we have nothing to worry about, well, as I said, being a paramedic and being somewhat paranoid about being exposed to everything has kept me in good stead these 28 years, call me hysterical, I've been called worse, but don't call me late for dinner.   It will be years before we even know if this was a sound decision, by then it will be too late.

[B.D.F.]

And besides everything else, aren't you at least the littlest bit happy that maybe, just maybe, your idiot- brother- in- law has to worry about Ebola when he is handcuffing / searching people too?

 

Brian

If I'm hysterical about the Ebola virus coming to the U.S. via an infected doctor simply because of an opinion formed by someone who has read that article, a scientifically based one at that, that says we have nothing to worry about, well, as I said, being a paramedic and being somewhat paranoid about being exposed to everything has kept me in good stead these 28 years, call me hysterical, I've been called worse, but don't call me late for dinner.   It will be years before we even know if this was a sound decision, by then it will be too late.

[gPink]

We could all just take up a tobacco habit.

[VirginiaJim]

Can't do tobacco....will just drink myself more senseless than usual.

[B.D.F.]

And you're scared of Ebola? ?? Really??

 

Brian

<snip>

....will just drink myself more senseless than usual.

[Racer Boy]

Convincing arguments but I'm not convinced.... color me skeptical.   I truly hope that you are right, though.

Brian and I hope we are right, too!

[VirginiaJim]

And you're scared of Ebola? ?? Really??

 

Brian

 

[Strawboss]

AIDS, Ebola, and Hep C is and does pose a threat to the general public, and to say they are not airborne is misleading because if they weren't why the total encapsulation suits worn by the victim and the health workers. Care to sit next to someone with Ebola who's coughing and hacking all over the place next to you? AIDS is a bit different as its mostly spread by sexual contact, mostly. Ebola is direct contact, meaning hands, feet, spittle, splashes, rags soaked in fluids, toilets, handles, etc... Think of the number of health care workers and providers and first responders there are in this country alone, that includes all police, guards, highway patrol, jail guards and all workers there, CERT teams, firefighters, paramedics, RN's, LPN's, all workers in all hospitals, full time, part time, auxillary, volunteers, all their families and all the people they come in contact with, that's not even including any secondary medical workers that include dentists, therapists, social workers, etc.... Still think it doesn't pose a threat to the general public just because its only located in a small strip of land in another continent? Well, the disease may be locally to there but we now have victims infected right here in the U.S. If you think that all the people I listed above are NOT part of the general public then you must live in a very isolated area.

[B.D.F.]

First to answer your question: yes I would sit next to or in some other reasonable way (NOT CPR, transfusion, etc.) try to render aid to a human I knew had any of those three diseases. I do not believe I would render such close aid to a person I knew to be infected with TB for example, and would insist on a complete barrier between us.

And I agree that AIDS and Hepatitis C are spread exclusively through bodily fluid and that very simple, reasonable precautions are entirely effective in controlling the risk of transferring either one barring the obvious problem of being wounded, bitten, etc. by one who is infected with either / both of those two.

And I further agree that less is known about Ebola transmission. It is <believed> to also be spread ONLY by the same bodily fluids as the first two mentioned but there are doubts, especially with specific strains that medical personal contracted (by a nurse back in the '70's I believe) without any known transmission path. That leaves the question that the hemorrhagic fevers, or at least some specific strains ARE transmitted without exchanging bodily fluids. That said, to the best of my knowledge, Ebola is NOT transmitted through casual contact with other people. If I were a medico (and I am not) I would insist on full spacial separation (the 'space suit') before coming into contact with any Ebola victims, including the bodies of them.

But this is an awfully specific circumstance and not representative of any real risk to the population of the US IMO. For all the reasons discussed already, Ebola will not become an epidemic or even a statistical problem in the US, again in my opinion. I am not dismissing any fear of contagion, I simply do not think Ebola is one to be worried about; I think MDR T.B. is a much, much bigger threat in the US, as well as everywhere else.

No, I do not think Ebola can "get loose" in a medical setting and become an epidemic in the US or any other first- world nation. As I have already mentioned, it is too difficult to transmit, it causes illness far too quickly (compare this to AIDS where a victim may have it for months / years without knowing it) and is just too delicate a disease for that to happen. There are simply some communicable diseases that can reach epidemic proportions (or even pandemic) and some that cannot. Ebola is one of the 'cannots'.

I do sympathize with you and what your job exposes you to and I am not brushing that risk off at all whatsoever. I just do not think you are ever going to have an Ebola patient that you do not already know is carrying that disease anywhere near you, never mind inside an ambulance. T.B. on the other hand, is a real possibility. And while T.B. does not carry the lethality of Ebola, it is still a deadly disease that is becoming less and less treatable every day.

Brian

AIDS, Ebola, and Hep C is and does pose a threat to the general public, and to say they are not airborne is misleading because if they weren't why the total encapsulation suits worn by the victim and the health workers. Care to sit next to someone with Ebola who's coughing and hacking all over the place next to you? AIDS is a bit different as its mostly spread by sexual contact, mostly. Ebola is direct contact, meaning hands, feet, spittle, splashes, rags soaked in fluids, toilets, handles, etc... Think of the number of health care workers and providers and first responders there are in this country alone, that includes all police, guards, highway patrol, jail guards and all workers there, CERT teams, firefighters, paramedics, RN's, LPN's, all workers in all hospitals, full time, part time, auxillary, volunteers, all their families and all the people they come in contact with, that's not even including any secondary medical workers that include dentists, therapists, social workers, etc.... Still think it doesn't pose a threat to the general public just because its only located in a small strip of land in another continent? Well, the disease may be locally to there but we now have victims infected right here in the U.S. If you think that all the people I listed above are NOT part of the general public then you must live in a very isolated area.

[Strawboss]

I'm confused, you'd want a space suit to treat someone but then you say you don't have a problem with someone having it near you then you say you aren't worried about it spreading to anybody cause its just too hard to spread all the while professing no knowledge of medical practices. Well ok, you do that. The problem with your comments are they are not rooted in the real world. You can't have it both ways. As I said, this is not something that will spread in two weeks. This will take years to come about and we will hear stories about tissue samples disappearing, and chain of custody policies and rules not being followed, sloppy record keeping etc....We obviously disagree about transfer of infectious diseases and treatment of people with those diseases so I'll close here and allow you to have the last word as I really don't care anymore what you think concerning this subject. Bye.

[VirginiaJim]

And it was getting so very interesting...

[B.D.F.]

Wow Dave, and I thought we were having a discussion. ?? I guess maybe I was having a discussion and you were.... whatever you were doing.

For whatever this is worth, I still am not dismissing your concern for your own personal safety and wish you all the best in your job and sincerely do hope that you never have any health problems associated with being an EMT.

Brian

I'm confused, you'd want a space suit to treat someone but then you say you don't have a problem with someone having it near you then you say you aren't worried about it spreading to anybody cause its just too hard to spread all the while professing no knowledge of medical practices. Well ok, you do that. The problem with your comments are they are not rooted in the real world. You can't have it both ways. As I said, this is not something that will spread in two weeks. This will take years to come about and we will hear stories about tissue samples disappearing, and chain of custody policies and rules not being followed, sloppy record keeping etc....We obviously disagree about transfer of infectious diseases and treatment of people with those diseases so I'll close here and allow you to have the last word as I really don't care anymore what you think concerning this subject. Bye.

[B.D.F.]

Hey, we can still discuss it Jim.... I mean you're still a little scared, right?

 

I guess I am just looking at this issue in a very remote and logical way while Dave has a very significant vested interest. And of course I understand his concern for his personal safety. I do not work in the medical or emergency areas and so in that in mind I will absolutely say that I can have any opinion on this matter without any personal risk, while Dave cannot.

Still, I believe this issue is a little bit broader than what might be best for any / all health care professionals. Sorta' like speeding- I don't like getting the tickets but have to admit that society would be worse off if there were no speed limits. The absolute safest way to proceed for any health care professional is to move them away from any and all sick or possibly sick people. That may not be the best course for the society as a whole though.

Brian

And it was getting so very interesting...

[VirginiaJim]

I used to be an EMT and one of the reasons I got out of it was the fear of catching something I didn't want to have.....that and my fear of needles.