Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Tree on April 29, 2017, 07:40:03 PM
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The rear rim has a different style of sensor than the front. See photo. How do I remove it so as to replace the battery? Do I just dig into it while it is on the rim instead?
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This is the new style of TPMS modules. The unit is potted with epoxy and it's not possible to get it open and replace the battery. At least I've not seen anyone do this.
If the bike is under warranty, you should be able to get it replaced by the dealer. If not, you really have nothing to lose by digging into it and seeing if you can locate the battery. Chances are you'll wreck it but it might help someone else. Bottom line is that you're going to need a new module.
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They are epoxy potted and that makes it very difficult.
Usually you will need one or two sacrificial units to locate the battery, any components close to the battery, and the wires that attach the battery. Then you can dig out the epoxy over the battery, remove it WITHOUT destroying the wires, solder new wires to the originals and install a new battery. Most people give up long before this though.
A video showing how it is done on a similar sensor of the same brand, Schrader. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjrT7WBG6U8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjrT7WBG6U8)
Brian
The rear rim has a different style of sensor than the front. See photo. How do I remove it so as to replace the battery? Do I just dig into it while it is on the rim instead?
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I bought the bike used a few years ago and this is the first time I've replaced a rear tire myself. I knew as soon as I saw the sensor that I was in for a fight. The battery has been dead for a while. I Love the TPMS and would like to get it back.
Does anybody know how to get it off of the rim? Do I have to put another valve stem on while I dick around with the sensor?
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I bought the bike used a few years ago and this is the first time I've replaced a rear tire myself. I knew as soon as I saw the sensor that I was in for a fight. The battery has been dead for a while. I Love the TPMS and would like to get it back.
Does anybody know how to get it off of the rim? Do I have to put another valve stem on while I dick around with the sensor?
Yes, you use a hex driver, I believe it's 4mm but I may remember incorrectly, and you unscrew it from the inside of the rim. If needed there are wrench flats on the outside portion, hold that with a wrench if needed.
I think now on this style you simply hold the module with one hand and use a wrench on the flats of the valve stem to unscrew it. Once you have that part off you can pull the module out of the hole for replacement.
You can buy a new one from Kawasaki but, unfortunately, they are proprietary and fairly expensive. Plus you need a KDS3 unit to program the bike to the new TPMS module's ID. Dealers should have them, some COG members have them too. Ask around if you decide to go that route.
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They are epoxy potted and that makes it very difficult.
Usually you will need one or two sacrificial units to locate the battery, any components close to the battery, and the wires that attach the battery. Then you can dig out the epoxy over the battery, remove it WITHOUT destroying the wires, solder new wires to the originals and install a new battery. Most people give up long before this though.
A video showing how it is done on a similar sensor of the same brand, Schrader. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjrT7WBG6U8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjrT7WBG6U8)
Brian
While it is the same manufacturer, it appears to be a different configuration sensor. I'm sure it can be done with the Kawasaki module but knowing where the battery is would really help as you start "digging" into the epoxy. I've done a bit of this sort of work in past lives but we had access to X-ray machines that could give us a view of what is where. There are also special tools that will mill out different areas once you identify what is where and how deep it is.
Eventually someone will have a case like this one where the new-style sensor is NOT covered under warranty and will be willing to let it be used as a guinea-pig. I'm sure the batteries in the new-style can be replaced, but knowing where to dig into the thing is important!
I'm keeping my old style sensors for the duration even though my warranty would have replaced them. Takes maybe 10-15 minutes to replace the battery and they are good as new!
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Thanks for the replies. Much appreciated.
OK. Here is the list of "to do" that I had in mind for today this week.
Replace the tires.
Replace the TPS batteries (easy).
Replace the air filter.
Fix my stupid windscreen that won't raise any more.
Not so. As it often happens when I start removing stuff to get at other stuff I find more stuff that needs attention. I have to add to that list seals on the forks - the goo that was inside is on the outside.
So I am gooing to take my time and not rush. As far as TPS batteries are concerned I did manage to coax out the potting material and found that the battery can be replaced (3VDC, CR2050HR). I had to perform some selective demolition as the pics show but I think I can salvage it with some Plasti-Coat and a little luck. I will endeavor to update this thread if anyone is interested.
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Tree, nice work on the tps so far. Please keep us informed on how it goes. :thumbs:
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Tree, nice work on the tps so far. Please keep us informed on how it goes. :thumbs:
10-4.
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I think now on this style you simply hold the module with one hand and use a wrench on the flats of the valve stem to unscrew it. Once you have that part off you can pull the module out of the hole for replacement.
That was it. Thanks.
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I see the battery is a CR2050 TABBED cell. The older style used CR2032 which has about 2/3 of the capacity (32/50 to be exact) so that explains why these last longer. Looks to be pretty easy to service though. Get a tabbed cell and solder it there in place of the old one.
Don't try to solder tabs or wires to an untabbed cell! At best you'll ruin the cell. At worst it will burst in your face.
Alternatively, solder a battery holder in place of the cell and then you can just slip the battery in. You'll probably want to restrain the battery in this case to keep it from popping out, however. I'd probably use some electrical tape around the entire sensor.
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:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Outstanding- this is the first time I have see a new Schrader TPS for a C-14 that had the battery cavity (Easy Boys!) open. Nice job on not destroying anything around the batter although it does look like the battery compartment is pretty isolated. They are tougher when the battery is against the active PCB and wired with 30 ga. solid copper wires.... >:(
Thanks for posting that photo of the TPS. Gives me the courage to dig into one on a tech. day with the understanding that 1) it is my first one and 2) I may well butcher it on the way in.
Brian
Thanks for the replies. Much appreciated.
OK. Here is the list of "to do" that I had in mind for today this week.
Replace the tires.
Replace the TPS batteries (easy).
Replace the air filter.
Fix my stupid windscreen that won't raise any more.
Not so. As it often happens when I start removing stuff to get at other stuff I find more stuff that needs attention. I have to add to that list seals on the forks - the goo that was inside is on the outside.
So I am gooing to take my time and not rush. As far as TPS batteries are concerned I did manage to coax out the potting material and found that the battery can be replaced (3VDC, CR2050HR). I had to perform some selective demolition as the pics show but I think I can salvage it with some Plasti-Coat and a little luck. I will endeavor to update this thread if anyone is interested.
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I bought the bike used a few years ago and this is the first time I've replaced a rear tire myself. I knew as soon as I saw the sensor that I was in for a fight. The battery has been dead for a while.
That is disappointing. The "new" version of the sensor has not been out all that long. 3 years? Hearing that it has gone dead already is not what we want to hear (and yours is the first posting of such for the new version, that I know of). This non-serviceable "improved" model with larger battery was supposed to have a much longer battery life (I was hoping for 5 or more years). Maybe yours just failed for another reason?
Keep in mind, the version used on my G37 is now 8 years old and still working. This is why it is so irritating that these die so soon in the Concours.
Anyway, cool work on digging it out!
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That is disappointing. The "new" version of the sensor has not been out all that long. 3 years? Hearing that it has gone dead already is not what we want to hear (and yours is the first posting of such for the new version, that I know of). This non-serviceable "improved" model with larger battery was supposed to have a much longer battery life (I was hoping for 5 or more years). Maybe yours just failed for another reason?
Keep in mind, the version used on my G37 is now 8 years old and still working. This is why it is so irritating that these die so soon in the Concours.
Anyway, cool work on digging it out!
No need to discount the new type just yet. As I said I bought the bike used 3 years ago so I don't know how long it"s been in there. It did have a beefier battery tho. So who knows?
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No need to discount the new type just yet. As I said I bought the bike used 3 years ago so I don't know how long it"s been in there.
What I was saying is that I don't think the new sensor model has been available/used/seen/in-production for more than 3 or so years...
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What I was saying is that I don't think the new sensor model has been available/used/seen/in-production for more than 3 or so years...
Got it. Silly human me.
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No telling how long the 'new to the concours' sensor has been in existence...might be ten years old and from another application. Do these button batteries have a service date on them?
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The batteries are replaced. The front TPS housing was all jacked up from previous attempts to replace the battery by previous owner(s). I Plasti-Dipped it while holding it together with tie wraps. I didn't want to add too much weight so I took the wraps off after it dried. It looks just fine with the tire installed. :)
I replaced the battery in the rear unit with a CR2025 3V because that's what I had. If it lasts a few years I'll be happy.
Hell, if either one of them work after what I did to them I'll be ecstatic! I know about the tie-a-string-to-it-and-spin-it test but the bike is in several pieces right now with the battery disconnected. We will have to wait and see. I'm waiting on fork seals and don't expect them until late this week. With any luck I'll be back on two wheels this weekend.
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so they're going back in with no covers?
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Nice! Looks like a serviceable repair. The 2025 will probably last a couple of years, it's 50% the capacity of the 2050. Next time you change the tires, plan on changing the battery again.
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so they're going back in with no covers?
What do you mean by covers? Both sensor assemblies (battery and circuit board) are in the original plastic housings.
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Nice! Looks like a serviceable repair. The 2025 will probably last a couple of years, it's 50% the capacity of the 2050. Next time you change the tires, plan on changing the battery again.
Hah! I go through 2 sets of tires a year. :)
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What do you mean by covers? Both sensor assemblies (battery and circuit board) are in the original plastic housings.
Yes, but in the pics above there's a big bit of the housing/cover missing from where you cut them open.
Just curious if they're going back in as they appear in your last pictures
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Yes, but in the pics above there's a big bit of the housing/cover missing from where you cut them open.
Just curious if they're going back in as they appear in your last pictures
I see what you're saying. I did remove the side walls of the rear TPS to get at the underside of the battery and make replacement easier. So, no, I'm not going to replace that plastic. What I have attempted to do is basically create a tub and poured Plasti-Dip over everything to fill in the hole. A close look at the last photo shows the clear tape I used as temporary side walls. I am relying on the property of the liquid plastic to flow into any cracks/crevices and act as an anchor of sorts. There really was no cover on this TPS when I started working it. The circuit board and battery were originally placed in the bottom with 2 screws and then potted. So, I kind of did the same thing when I put it back together.
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I see what you're saying. I did remove the side walls of the rear TPS to get at the underside of the battery and make replacement easier. So, no, I'm not going to replace that plastic. What I have attempted to do is basically create a tub and poured Plasti-Dip over everything to fill in the hole. A close look at the last photo shows the clear tape I used as temporary side walls. I am relying on the property of the liquid plastic to flow into any cracks/crevices and act as an anchor of sorts. There really was no cover on this TPS when I started working it. The circuit board and battery were originally placed in the bottom with 2 screws and then potted. So, I kind of did the same thing when I put it back together.
there's always gaffer tape ;D
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No joy. Neither TPS displayed pressure when I got back on the road. I was hoping that the front would come back since it was working prior to battery replacement. I don't know what else to about the TPMS for now. I have to get the fork seals replaced so any further troubleshooting will have to wait. Kind of a bummer, I know.
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I was thinking about this (my first mistake, I know!). I made an assumption when I got new batteries. I assumed that they were good and I didn't check them before I installed them. I have replaced similar batteries in other remote devices with no issues. But, what if?
I guess that's why I bumped this thread. If you are going to replace the TPS battery check the new one. This will haunt me until the next tire change.
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It's possible to remove the sensor with the tire on the wheel on the bike.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=16850.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=16850.0)
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It's possible to remove the sensor with the tire on the wheel on the bike.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=16850.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=16850.0)
I have seen that post too. Just my luck I'd knock the bike off the center stand while pushing on the tire. :doh: I do have time tho. My voltage regulator crapped out and I'm waiting for Amazon to ship...
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I have seen that post too. Just my luck I'd knock the bike off the center stand while pushing on the tire. :doh: I do have time tho. My voltage regulator crapped out and I'm waiting for Amazon to ship...
Strap the center stand.
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Not a problem- you do not have to use much of any force to push the tire away from one rim of the wheel. And what force you do have to use is between the tire and the rim, not between you and the bike.
Brian
I have seen that post too. Just my luck I'd knock the bike off the center stand while pushing on the tire. :doh: I do have time tho. My voltage regulator crapped out and I'm waiting for Amazon to ship...
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I just replaced my batteries on my 2008. They actually worked up until about February of this year on the original batteries! It was relatively easy to do, and while I did not test my batteries before the tires were mounted both of mine worked although they seemed to take a little longer to display pressure than they used to. Good luck getting your new style sensors to work!