Author Topic: Clutch question  (Read 5242 times)

Offline wtaylorc14

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Clutch question
« on: January 18, 2019, 01:25:11 PM »
Hey folks!
I have a 2008 ABS thatI purchased back in August with 32k on it.. It's my daily driver.  Had zero issues with it.  Changed my coolant, brakes, tires, oil back in Nov and Dec.  Smoothest shifting bike that I have ever owned.  Rode cross town to drop off a birthday gift for my sister and halfway back, I just have half my clutch lever.  Not running or shifting right at all.  I get it home. Check clutch fluid.  Full, and looks good.  Take it around the block and runs like it always has.  Thoughts?  I appreciate it!
TG
2008 ABS C14

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2019, 01:35:02 PM »
When's the last time you changed the clutch fluid?
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2019, 01:35:29 PM »
That is typically caused by having air in the hydraulic lines.  Have you replaced the clutch fluid recently?
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2019, 01:36:25 PM »
Didn't I just say that?   :rotflmao:
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats/w/AC 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! Member in good standing with the Knights of MEH.

Offline wtaylorc14

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2019, 01:39:02 PM »
When's the last time you changed the clutch fluid?

I have not.  Bleeding anything stresses me out for some reason.  Probably because I don't quite get it.  It needs bleeding probably.  Gotta just suck it up I suppose!
Thanks!
2008 ABS C14

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2019, 01:52:47 PM »
Well don't drink the fluid that comes out.  It's not good for you.


The clutch can be troublesome to bleed and get all the air out assuming air is in it.  Some have success, some don't and have to use a pressure bleeder.


While you're at it do the brakes as well.
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats/w/AC 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! Member in good standing with the Knights of MEH.

Offline Texas Concours14

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2019, 01:57:32 PM »
The biggest hassle in bleeding the clutch is that to get good access to the bleeder valve you have to take off some plastic on the left side of the bike. Be sure to cover nearby paint and plastic parts when you do the job because a drop of misplaced brake/clutch fluid will stain them.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2019, 02:23:34 PM »
And don't forget the bleeder next to the clutch master.  Do that last.
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats/w/AC 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! Member in good standing with the Knights of MEH.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2019, 03:25:31 PM »
Didn't I just say that?   :rotflmao:

Yeah, too funny.  We were both typing at the same time and posted seconds apart.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2019, 03:30:14 PM »
The clutch can be troublesome to bleed and get all the air out assuming air is in it.  Some have success, some don't and have to use a pressure bleeder.

I was lucky... it seems when I changed it, I must have not gotten any air in and everything went fine.  I didn't use a power bleeder, just one of those "speed bleeder" valve things.  Motionpro.

Quote
While you're at it do the brakes as well.

Yes, here comes the irony in ME saying so as well (being it took me, what, 7 years to get to it).  But if you don't know when it was last changed, it would be a good thing to do.

The biggest hassle in bleeding the clutch is that to get good access to the bleeder valve you have to take off some plastic on the left side of the bike.

Agreed.  Seems like a stupid place to put the slave bleeder; a little change of angle/direction would have made it much easier.  I think I actually managed to get to it without removing the plastics, but it was very difficult.
 
Quote
Be sure to cover nearby paint and plastic parts when you do the job because a drop of misplaced brake/clutch fluid will stain them.

You should have seen mine- I covered everything with plastic and then towels :)
Brake fluid is nasty stuff on paint AND plastics.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline gPink

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2019, 03:39:12 PM »
The master is susceptible to the fluid return hole getting dirt in it and will act as yours did. Be sure to clean it, too.

Offline wtaylorc14

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2019, 09:20:14 AM »
It seems to be working OK now.. but I am sure its trash in the fluid.  Anyone know of a video online that shows the entire bleeding process on THIS bike, not a general video?  I have the manual and other printed directions but I generally cannot do things that way.. need to see it done.. reading about it doesn't click.  Hoping to get it done by Tuesday as I have to ride 70 miles each way to work and not looking forward to rolling the dice it won't happen again. Thanks
2008 ABS C14

Offline robertv

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2019, 09:59:00 AM »
I know Fred has DVD videos for sale which detail just about everything including brake/clutch fluid... http://www.angelridevideos.com/concours.html

Not sure if I've seen any YT video on this particular procedure on the C14 but the DVDs are super helpful and don't need to be online. :) 


It seems to be working OK now.. but I am sure its trash in the fluid.  Anyone know of a video online that shows the entire bleeding process on THIS bike, not a general video?  I have the manual and other printed directions but I generally cannot do things that way.. need to see it done.. reading about it doesn't click.  Hoping to get it done by Tuesday as I have to ride 70 miles each way to work and not looking forward to rolling the dice it won't happen again. Thanks

Offline wtaylorc14

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2019, 11:05:52 AM »
I know Fred has DVD videos for sale which detail just about everything including brake/clutch fluid... http://www.angelridevideos.com/concours.html

Not sure if I've seen any YT video on this particular procedure on the C14 but the DVDs are super helpful and don't need to be online. :)

Those look good!  May have to just pray it doesn't happen again and buy those the end of February.  Those would be definitely helpful.  Hopefully it won't happen again and I can get those and maybe do a full bleed and replace first of March. Thanks!
2008 ABS C14

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2019, 04:41:40 PM »
another good option, would be to fill out your information and location data on your profile, and then, canvass the forum for someone that may live near you, to assist you and guide you thru the process...you might find that someone with great knowledge lives 5 miles from you... much more gratifying, and effective, having someone that has done this procedure standing there explaining what/why/how, and able to answer your immediate questions during said process... not to mention you get to meet interesting people, who may or may not have specific tools used for making the job a simpler, and more affordable experience...

It's kind of a COG thing many of us do, and promote, just because we all been thru the pain before in making stuff work.

best of luck,

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Offline wtaylorc14

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2019, 06:12:54 PM »
Well, having more issues and wanted to spell out what's happening to get input here from some of you.  So, I had this random issue come up end of January as I said.  I ended up taking it the one real dealer here the end of February and they checked the clutch and vacuumed (said they did) the system, not just bled it, while I waited several hours.  Bike did great. 

Last Tuesday, May 7, I was running errands at peak traffic time here on the busiest road... lots of stop and start, miles of 50-100 yards and a light.  After a few miles, noticed clutch lever is floppy at the top half of the pull, and not tight as before.  After another few lights, I have lever pulled in and bike still wanting to go forward, had to say "screw traffic and lights" and run through traffic and lights to get onto open road... ran lights and around lines of cars for few miles and built up pressure.  Took to dealer and of course it's fine by the time I get there.  Left the bike as they made it sound like they would get to it tomorrow.  After a week and $$$$$ of Uber, I said I gotta have it back.  They were going to vacuum the system again(or the first time, who knows?) Said they couldnt duplicate my problem. 

So, picked up yesterday.  Rode fine.  Decided to do that original errand again today... and literally took same route and SAME thing happened at same locations and same red lights... lost lever then lost clutch and ran traffic and got on open side roads.  Took back to dealer to see if it would duplicate but had full clutch by the time I got back.  So, they are saying either master or slave cylinder and no way to know till getting in there.. if master... $350 for parts and probably $350 labor, and if slave, probably $150 parts and $500 labor. 

Right now, no way I can have that done and doing it myself isn't an option. Any thoughts what exactly it might be?  I was supposed to ride it to West Palm on Saturday for an interview but I'm not risking it.
Thanks
2008 ABS C14

Offline connie14boy

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2019, 08:02:14 PM »
Well, having more issues and wanted to spell out what's happening to get input here from some of you.  So, I had this random issue come up end of January as I said.  I ended up taking it the one real dealer here the end of February and they checked the clutch and vacuumed (said they did) the system, not just bled it, while I waited several hours.  Bike did great. 

Last Tuesday, May 7, I was running errands at peak traffic time here on the busiest road... lots of stop and start, miles of 50-100 yards and a light.  After a few miles, noticed clutch lever is floppy at the top half of the pull, and not tight as before.  After another few lights, I have lever pulled in and bike still wanting to go forward, had to say "screw traffic and lights" and run through traffic and lights to get onto open road... ran lights and around lines of cars for few miles and built up pressure.  Took to dealer and of course it's fine by the time I get there.  Left the bike as they made it sound like they would get to it tomorrow.  After a week and $$$$$ of Uber, I said I gotta have it back.  They were going to vacuum the system again(or the first time, who knows?) Said they couldnt duplicate my problem. 

So, picked up yesterday.  Rode fine.  Decided to do that original errand again today... and literally took same route and SAME thing happened at same locations and same red lights... lost lever then lost clutch and ran traffic and got on open side roads.  Took back to dealer to see if it would duplicate but had full clutch by the time I got back.  So, they are saying either master or slave cylinder and no way to know till getting in there.. if master... $350 for parts and probably $350 labor, and if slave, probably $150 parts and $500 labor. 

Right now, no way I can have that done and doing it myself isn't an option. Any thoughts what exactly it might be?  I was supposed to ride it to West Palm on Saturday for an interview but I'm not risking it.
Thanks

The hydraulic clutch is very sensitive to any bubbles of air-even really tiny ones that are at first hard to see. When I first bled mine, it took 2 trips to Autozoo and 2 quarts of DOT 4 to get any clutch reaction. Get a quality speed bleeder like a MityVac and lots of DOT 4, and bleed it from the master cylinder. Ask for your money back from the stealer- they obviously are not capable of good results, and may even damage something in the process. Learn the basic maintenance items so you are not at anyone's mercy, and it's healthy for your pocketbook and head.

Offline gPink

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2019, 08:17:36 PM »
Might be blockage in the master cylinder fluid return hole in the bottom of the master. Just pulling fluid through the system from the bottom bleeder will not clean this area.

Offline wtaylorc14

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2019, 09:01:33 PM »
Might be blockage in the master cylinder fluid return hole in the bottom of the master. Just pulling fluid through the system from the bottom bleeder will not clean this area.

I've paid them $106 the end of Feb and another $106 on Tuesday to vacuum out the system and replace the fluid.  Of course, I have no way to know.  Would it not take care of trash in there?  The thing that gets me is that it doesn't seem to act up in normal traffic.  Both times it was in the heaviest traffic in lunch rush on the worst road... drive 100 yards and stop, over and over for miles and miles. Does that have any bearing here or was it just coincidence?
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Offline Boomer

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Re: Clutch question
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2019, 04:53:00 AM »
2 things happen in heavy traffic.
1- The motor gets hot.
2- The clutch gets a workout.

Chances are the problem is being caused by small amounts of air expanding when they get hot and making the clutch feel spongier.
The ONLY way to get rid of that air is to push DOT4 into the system from the slave cylinder end.
I use a syringe and am very careful to make certain that no air gets in the system.
Once you have pushed enough in, you need to bleed the master cylinder in the normal way.
It is a beyotch of a system to bleed all the air out of.
George "Boomer" Garratt
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