Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: wildnphx on July 08, 2012, 10:25:34 AM
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Ok go ahead and blast me for started a dreaded oil thread but I want to know what others opinions are...
I have been using Mobil 1 syn and see people talk about Rotella or Delvac... Is this ok to use or am I putting my Motor at risk by trying to save a few bucks per oil change?
[/url]http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-Delvac-15W-40-Heavy-Duty-Diesel-Oil-1gal/17034368 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-Delvac-15W-40-Heavy-Duty-Diesel-Oil-1gal/17034368)[url]
I ride hard and Redline often so I don't want to sacrifice protection in the name of saving a few bucks so what do you think? Is it safe to run Rotella or Delvac or should I stay with Mobil 1?
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Do a bit of research on the subject, and if many many folks are running Rotella and Delvac in their bikes "me included", shouldn't that answer your question? ;)
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Yeah, right....
I'm using Kwak 10w40. Came off Mobil1. I won't be running Kwak again. Shifting isn't near as good as the Mobil1. Going back to Mobil1 next change.
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Although I have not yet changed the oil in my new Concours, for the last 12 years or so I have only used Delvac in our bikes and been very happy with it.
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Do a bit of research on the subject, and if many many folks are running Rotella and Delvac in their bikes "me included", shouldn't that answer your question? ;)
Well not really because it appears as though at least one out of the 3 responses thus far would prefer Mobil 1 and I am not aware how these people who run Rotella or Delvac use there bike... Do they ride like a a little old lady and shift always under 4k and never exceed posted speed limit? or do they take it to the track and run the quarter mile or do track days? Do they only ride when temp is between 60 degrees and 70 degrees or do they ride 256 days a year regardless of temps or ride when it is 115 degrees out like I do?
So thanks for your response but no just because many folks use it does not answer my question on if I should or should not use it.
So since you use it and swear by it please tell me what type of rider you are and what types of conditions your ride in? I'm not knocking anyones type of riding or preferences I would just like to know if the people who use this oil really are using 80% and up of the bikes potential and or riding in extreme conditions. That will help me to make my decision.
Thanks
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Why would anyone try to save money on 5 qts of oil??
I guess If you smoke your need to save money somewhere. :-\ ::) ::)
I've been a fan of Mobil 1 since 1977 .
I had a old 1990 350 Chevy 4x4 pick up that I kept around for a spare , hated to part with the old girl because it still ran great, it did not get much use, Well I put that cheap Sams oil in it for two changes , the third change I noticed SLUDGE build up inside the valve cover and it started ticking a little , Rotella , Marvel mystery oil and I sold it, never again save money on oil.
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Well not really because it appears as though at least one out of the 3 responses thus far would prefer Mobil 1 and I am not aware how these people who run Rotella or Delvac use there bike... Do they ride like a a little old lady and shift always under 4k and never exceed posted speed limit? or do they take it to the track and run the quarter mile or do track days? Do they only ride when temp is between 60 degrees and 70 degrees or do they ride 256 days a year regardless of temps or ride when it is 115 degrees out like I do?
Oh, I think Mr. Poke rides somewhere between little old lady and MotoGP rider.
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Rotella for me all the time (T6). I run 25 degrees to 108 degrees. I hit triple digits every ride atleast for a few minutes. It's my therapy. I put 44,000 miles on my first C-14 and 29,000 miles on my current C-14. Both have run flawlessly. TPS, Tires, Brakes, and Oil.
Go go go! I used Mobil 1 4T in my Triumph. And blew a lot of extra money on it.
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ST1300 guys swear by the Rotella over there on their board.
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My bikes dont shift right using rotella. I've tried it in a yz 250, sv650, kx125, c 14, cr85 and several others. Bad, notch shifting. It probably great oil, but I cannot use it.
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Not sure which Rotella you guys are talking about here- Rotella is a family of fleet oils from Shell oil co. The synthetic is 5W-40 weight and my C-14 does not shift or clutch well with that oil either but it performs very well with Rotella 15W-40 which is a mineral oil (not synthetic). There are also straight- weight oils in the Rotella brand although I have never tried them. Whatever Shell changed from the older type synthetic Rotella (5W-40 T5 (old) vs. 5W-40 T6 (new type)) made a big difference because the old formulation worked well but the new stuff just does not.
I am currently using Delvac 15W-40 mineral oil (Mobil fleet oil) with good success. The bike shifts and clutches well with it and it is just now getting a touch notchy shifting with about 3,800 miles on that batch of oil. I think with mixed with a quart of Pennzoil 10W-40 and an ounce of cam break- in lube (basically ZDDP suspended in an oil media) I think it might be a great oil for heavy road bikes like the C-14.
Brian
My bikes dont shift right using rotella. I've tried it in a yz 250, sv650, kx125, c 14, cr85 and several others. Bad, notch shifting. It probably great oil, but I cannot use it.
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Well not really because it appears as though at least one out of the 3 responses thus far would prefer Mobil 1 and I am not aware how these people who run Rotella or Delvac use there bike... Do they ride like a a little old lady and shift always under 4k and never exceed posted speed limit? or do they take it to the track and run the quarter mile or do track days? Do they only ride when temp is between 60 degrees and 70 degrees or do they ride 256 days a year regardless of temps or ride when it is 115 degrees out like I do?
So thanks for your response but no just because many folks use it does not answer my question on if I should or should not use it.
So since you use it and swear by it please tell me what type of rider you are and what types of conditions your ride in? I'm not knocking anyones type of riding or preferences I would just like to know if the people who use this oil really are using 80% and up of the bikes potential and or riding in extreme conditions. That will help me to make my decision.
Thanks
Motorcyclists have been running the diesel fleet oils for "years", and there is a TON of information and facts/results all over the web and forums. I have run the 5W40 Rotella and 15W40 in every bike I have ever owned, but like BDF mentioned I feel the good ole 15W40 dino gives the best results. I tend to mix oils allot, I run half Rotella and half Castrol RS4 20W50 all year round in the C14. I run 15W40 Rotella in my WR and I can tell you that probably the most popular oils for dirtbikes is the Rotella line. Keep paying for the Mobil 1 if ya need that peace of mind, but peace of mind is about the extent of it. ;) Think about this for a second.........do you think that a semi, tractor, bulldozer, crane etc....is going to have less engine stress than a motorcycle? Blah blah blah about special additives in motorcycle oils, the fleet oils are on par with the special additives for less money.
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Great oil thread.
Pokey! I thought you ONLY used Amsoil for all your auto, bikes, boats, and lawn product needs!?
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/behindsofa.gif)
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Great oil thread.
Pokey! I thought you ONLY used Amsoil for all your auto, bikes, boats, and lawn product needs!?
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/behindsofa.gif)
No Scamsoil for me my friend. 8)
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I also had notchy shifting when I used the 5w-40 T6, but since I have switched to 15w-40 Rotella I have had ZERO problems with how the shifter feels. $13 per gallon, I can't argue with it.
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I think with mixed with a quart of Pennzoil 10W-40 and an ounce of cam break- in lube (basically ZDDP suspended in an oil media) I think it might be a great oil for heavy road bikes like the C-14.
Brian
Hey Brain, what brand of cam break-in do you use and where do you find it? Beginning to think it might not be legal in PA since I haven't been able to find any.... :-\
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Hey Brain, what brand of cam break-in do you use and where do you find it? Beginning to think it might not be legal in PA since I haven't been able to find any.... :-\
If you have a high performance engine builder around they might have some in stock. Other than that it is hard to find unless you pick some up on the internet.
http://autoplicity.com/products/321243-Comp_Cams_159_comp_cams_engine_breakin_oil_additive.aspx?utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medium=CSE&utm_content=321243NOFITMENT&utm_campaign=GSNOFITMENT (http://autoplicity.com/products/321243-Comp_Cams_159_comp_cams_engine_breakin_oil_additive.aspx?utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medium=CSE&utm_content=321243NOFITMENT&utm_campaign=GSNOFITMENT)
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I don't want to mention a brand 'cause I don't want to have people think I am suggesting anyone use anything other than straight motor oil. If you want to increase the content of ZDDP in motor oil, the easiest way is to buy a flat tappet cam break in oil additive. Companies such as Summit Racing sell them and the shipping is very reasonable. I typically use break- in lube itself, not an actual oil, but I am careful to avoid any of the break- in pastes as they are mostly moly lube which <may> be hard on wet clutches.
ZDDP is not illegal in any quantity in motor oil, anywhere that I know of but motor oil suppliers have reduced the content of zinc in motor oil because it is thought that zinc may coat catalytic converters used behind badly worn engines (with excessive oil consumption). The zinc content used to be between 1,200 PPM and 1,800 PPM but the new target seems to be 800 PPM. It is difficult to find out how much of the various additives are in each motor oil as the mfg. does not normally let that information out. I was told the other day that of the fleet diesel oils (Rotella, Delvac and Delo), Delo still has more than 1,200 PPM zinc content but I do not know if that is correct or not. Of course anyone could have an oil analyzed but I find it easier and cheaper to increase the zinc content than it is to actually find out what the base oil starts out containing.
In the end I believe that the currently available motor oils are perfectly fine for any conventional engine use simply because we are not seeing a rash of seized engines or galled camshafts; if the oil really were not up to the task we should be hearing of more engine failures, a number that would seem to be seriously close to zero in reality.
Brian
Hey Brain, what brand of cam break-in do you use and where do you find it? Beginning to think it might not be legal in PA since I haven't been able to find any.... :-\
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gotta love a oil thread. im just not sure why you would want to run bulldozer oil in your motorcycle.whats wrong with a good quality motorcycle oil? mobile one , amsoil, kawi oil.i dont see the advantage of mixing oil either 10w40 with 20w 50 or 10w 30 whats up with that oil does not mix so who knows what you end up with.besides the different brands.why not run the weight of oil the factory calls for? and change it often.i dont think the money you save trying different oil is saving you that much money
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gotta love a oil thread. im just not sure why you would want to run bulldozer oil in your motorcycle.whats wrong with a good quality motorcycle oil?
What's wrong with quality motorcycle oil? Nothing but the generally outrageous price tag hung on the bottle if for no other reason than to extract more money out of your pocket and into the pockets of those hawking the "motorcycle" oil as vastly superior to automotive oil.
Why would you want to run bulldozer oil in your motorcycle? Because spec sheets don't lie.... Compare the spec sheet of Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil and you will find that they have more of the additives that keep oil cleaner longer just as they have more of the VI additives that keep the oil from breaking down due to shearing. And all this without having near the crazy price tag hung on motorcycle oils.
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I also had notchy shifting when I used the 5w-40 T6, but since I have switched to 15w-40 Rotella I have had ZERO problems with how the shifter feels. $13 per gallon, I can't argue with it.
Me too. I did nto try the 15-40 in my c14, btu it was awful in my yz250 and sv650. So what gives> How the hell can rated, high quality oil cause shifting notches..for lack of a better word. I know it sounds nuts, btu I tried this oil in each bike multiple times..nto believing what I found.
I run that rotella diesel rated in my work van..one gas, and one diesel. The gas engine van gets turned back this month due t it havign 307,000 miles on it. It runs well, and does not use oil, and several of us offered to buy it. Oil change intervals were 15,000 miles, or once per month...if the driver remembered, or was nto too busy.In a ford e350. I KNOW its good oil.
The diesel e350 is just broken in at 188,000. It is time up on that, but I'm keeping it another year just for fun. Damn thing needed an alternator at 160k and I want my moneys worth! LOL
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you are correct spec sheets dont lie.but are they comparing diesel oil ran in high performance bikes? i work in a diesel shop and diesel engines run at a very lower rpm range then most motorcycles. we send oil in for examination all the time most fleets require it. diesels dont have a wet clutch either and hold 10 gallons of oil compared to 1 gallon for a bike. im just saying for a couple bucks a gallon why change.i would say keeping your oil clean is the best thing you can do and use a high quality motorcycle oil of your choice is best.
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you are correct spec sheets dont lie.but are they comparing diesel oil ran in high performance bikes? i work in a diesel shop and diesel engines run at a very lower rpm range then most motorcycles. we send oil in for examination all the time most fleets require it. diesels dont have a wet clutch either and hold 10 gallons of oil compared to 1 gallon for a bike. im just saying for a couple bucks a gallon why change.i would say keeping your oil clean is the best thing you can do and use a high quality motorcycle oil of your choice is best.
Do as you wish, thousands of motorcyclists run the stuff with zero issues "me included". And the moto oil companies love guys like you, you need to look at oil analysis from bikes running the fleet oils before you poo poo it. ;)
And the answer to the question you asked is YES.
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you are correct spec sheets dont lie.but are they comparing diesel oil ran in high performance bikes? i work in a diesel shop and diesel engines run at a very lower rpm range then most motorcycles. we send oil in for examination all the time most fleets require it. diesels dont have a wet clutch either and hold 10 gallons of oil compared to 1 gallon for a bike. im just saying for a couple bucks a gallon why change.i would say keeping your oil clean is the best thing you can do and use a high quality motorcycle oil of your choice is best.
+1 Smart man.
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Do as you wish, thousands of motorcyclists run the stuff with zero issues "me included". And the moto oil companies love guys like you, you need to look at oil analysis from bikes running the fleet oils before you poo poo it. ;)
And the answer to the question you asked is YES.
Heck, some even run car tires ;)
Fear not naysayers, notchy shifting is THE ONLY thing KIPASS will not cure, thus, the need for monthly oil threads ;D
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Yeah, I have not found why some oils cause this bike to shift better than some others. It seems to be EP (extreme pressure lubricant) related but I don't know for sure. It also seems that different users have different experience with regard to which oil(s) their particular C-14 responds to best.
The best oils I have found for shifting are plain ole' Pennzoil or Valvoline 10W-40.... the plain auto, mineral oils. The good quality shifting does not last very long with those oils though and by 1,000 miles it is notchy again. Rotella 15W-40 retains its better shifting qualities for better than 3K miles, at least in my bike. With fresh oil the Rotella does not shift as well as Pennzoil but by the time the oil has a few hundred miles on it the Rotella is superior.
Somebody ought to do a study.... :-)
Brian
Me too. I did nto try the 15-40 in my c14, btu it was awful in my yz250 and sv650. So what gives> How the hell can rated, high quality oil cause shifting notches..for lack of a better word. I know it sounds nuts, btu I tried this oil in each bike multiple times..nto believing what I found.
<snip>
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Just to ensure everyone knows the op did not disappear but is reading each and every post and then re-reading them to pull out any pertinent information and I am finding some good info. I am very surprised at the lack of crap or jokes though... It is a level or two down from normal. :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot: lol
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Well, you just provided a chuckle or two by saying the words 'pertinent information' within the confines of an oil thread. The very definition of an oxymoron.
;D
In our defense though there have been a rash of oil and oil filter threads here and on the other site lately so we are probably worn down due to overexposure. We promise to try harder in the future.
Brian
Just to ensure everyone knows the op did not disappear but is reading each and every post and then re-reading them to pull out any pertinent information and I am finding some good info. I am very surprised at the lack of crap or jokes though... It is a level or two down from normal. :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot: lol
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+1 Smart man.
Really......explain?
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Yeah, I have not found why some oils cause this bike to shift better than some others. It seems to be EP (extreme pressure lubricant) related but I don't know for sure. It also seems that different users have different experience with regard to which oil(s) their particular C-14 responds to best.
The best oils I have found for shifting are plain ole' Pennzoil or Valvoline 10W-40.... the plain auto, mineral oils. The good quality shifting does not last very long with those oils though and by 1,000 miles it is notchy again. Rotella 15W-40 retains its better shifting qualities for better than 3K miles, at least in my bike. With fresh oil the Rotella does not shift as well as Pennzoil but by the time the oil has a few hundred miles on it the Rotella is superior.
Somebody ought to do a study.... :-)
Brian
I think that this boils down to the dino oils using more VI additives to make the summer grade in that a 10W40 needs more VI to make 40 than say a 15W40 does. It is long proven that the VI additives are the first thing to break down in an oil and thus the deterioration of shift quality as the oil ages. Then you have synthetic oils which by nature don't need any where near the VI to make or maintain grade when hot so some synthetic oils such as 5W40 may not really improve shift quality for some riders whereas an oil such as 15W50 will due to the base oil being a 15 over a 5 and much thicker.
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Really......explain?
When we have some very knowledgeable people like the S.A.E. and the designers, metallurgists etc.. doing our oil research for us.... why worry? Read the directions in your owners manual and save the verbal thrashing for something more appropriate like car tires on your bike.
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I have been puzzled for years about the reports of "notchy" shifting here; one because I had never experienced "notchy" shifting and two I don't understand the implied correlation between oil "quality" and shifting performance. Lubrication of the simple mechanical moving parts of the shifting mechanisms would seem to demand many many times less lubrication/oil quality than parts like cam lobes, crank bearings, pistons rings and cylindar walls. So it seems to me if your oil has broken down to the pint that it can't properly lubricate the shift mehanisms than you engine should be toast.
So what causes poor shift quality or "notchy" shifting? I think it can only be three things, misadjusted shift lever or clutch lever, inadequate hydraulic pressure or clutch drag due to excess oil viscosity Have you ever started a cold bike and noticed with the clutch pulled fully and in first gear the bike wants to creep forward? That is clutch drag. It usually goes away when the oil warms up.
So when a batch of oil starts to get old what is it that causes poor shifting. In my view it can't be loss of viscosity. Prove me wrong please.
Interestingly enough, other than hydraulic pressure problems or misadjusted levers I had never in 40+ years experienced poor shift quality in any motorcycle until I tried some Motul V300 15W50, considered an excellent synthetic motorcycle specific oil, in my C14. Very minor but it is noticeable. However, there is now no change after draining the Motul and going back to Rotell T6 5W40 so it could be that my nearly 5 year old, 83000 mile Concours is past her prime.
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+1 Smart man.
Really......explain?
When we have some very knowledgeable people like the S.A.E. and the designers, metallurgists etc.. doing our oil research for us.... why worry? Read the directions in your owners manual and save the verbal thrashing for something more appropriate like car tires on your bike.
Ah, now we have an oil thread. It really isn't an "oil thread" until we start snipping at each other.
Like most of motorcycling, it usually comes back to risk management. Whether debating gear, oil, tires, brands, or whatever, hard use and infrequent changes tend to the the hardest on the bike or rider. With gentle use and more frequent replacement, we can be happy with an even wider variety of choices most of the time.
The engineers and manufactures seem to have done well enough for us to be able to enjoy our off-spec deviations and still get good results. Most of our quibbling is about ideal vs optimal, rather than acceptable vs disastrous. I, for one, am grateful for that.
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I think that is a pretty good thought Tony. VI additives are basically plastic and shear fairly easily and quickly. They may also provide an intermediate surface for the shifting forks to ride on making shifting easier. ???
EP additives in the form of ZDDP also seem to be a big factor- adding them to the oil makes an immediate difference as well as improving the shifting quality after a lot of miles accumulate on the oil.
Brian
I think that this boils down to the dino oils using more VI additives to make the summer grade in that a 10W40 needs more VI to make 40 than say a 15W40 does. It is long proven that the VI additives are the first thing to break down in an oil and thus the deterioration of shift quality as the oil ages. Then you have synthetic oils which by nature don't need any where near the VI to make or maintain grade when hot so some synthetic oils such as 5W40 may not really improve shift quality for some riders whereas an oil such as 15W50 will due to the base oil being a 15 over a 5 and much thicker.
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Yep, that advice works too I think. Still, it is an interesting subject and who knows, we just might learn something by accident.
I would not count on S.A.E. members doing much- I've spent a bunch of time with some of those folks and their long suit seems to be alcohol consumption..... at least in my experience. :-) The field of study that encompasses motor oil and its use would be tribology. A fairly new field, it is gaining ground in quite a few engineering schools (falling under the mechanical engineering dept. 'cause the Che folks won't touch it :D ).
Brian
When we have some very knowledgeable people like the S.A.E. and the designers, metallurgists etc.. doing our oil research for us.... why worry? Read the directions in your owners manual and save the verbal thrashing for something more appropriate like car tires on your bike.
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Speaking only for myself, I use the word 'notchy' to describe shifting that takes more effort, can be felt dragging while moving between gears, and has definite resistance to the start of movement. The C-14 seems particularly sensitive and variable regarding shifting feel; sometimes it is almost like the shift lever is not connected to anything (little to no resistance, no resistance to starting the fork moving, and no real feel of anything until the fork hits an internal stop) and other times it feels very mechanical, takes noticeably more effort, and sometimes feels like it would like to stop moving a bit short of fully engaged.
Lubrication in an engine works in basically two different ways, one is hydrodynamic and the other is direct contact sliding. Of the two, hydrodynamic lubrication is far more critical and what motor oil is mostly designed to create. It is where there is enough motion to allow one part to 'water ski' against another part without ever actually touching that other part. Main bearings, cam lobes and bearings, con rod bearings (mostly) are lubricated this way.
Shifting does not involve that though- only static, direct- contact lubrication comes into play. The shifting drum, forks and everything else involved in shifting do not float on a film of oil but make actual mechanical contact with the mating parts. The lubrication used in those cases is contact lube and is addressed by the EP (extreme pressure) lubricant additives in motor oil. The two major groups of EP usually used in motor oil are ZDDP (a chemical combination of zinc and phosphorus) and moly disulfide (moly), both of which are actually dry lubricants in suspension in the motor oil. I do not know why C-14s, at least mine, are so sensitive to lubricants regarding shifting but I do know that increasing the ZDDP content makes the bike shift better, easier and for much longer as the miles pile up on the oil. I think it is also interesting that the ZDDP content has been reduced <more or less> by about half in the latest formulations of motor oil in the US due to environmental concerns (the zinc can coat a catalytic converter and render it unable to catalyze). But the static or EP lubes have absolutely no effect on any surface being lubed as a hydrostatic bearing so the shifting feel is not indicative of the quality of a motor oil, at least not in the way we really need it to lubricate. An oil that causes (or allows) lousy shifting may be a wonderful lubricant for the parts of the engine that really need to be protected from wear.
I doubt your bike is worn enough anywhere in the transmission to cause any change in shifting feel and it is certainly not worn out.
It is funny that you mention shifting quality was a bit down with Motul and did not improve going back to Rotella T6 because I have found, at least in my own C-14, that T6 causes about the worst shifting of any oil I have tried. I honestly do believe that T6 is a great motor oil (as are all the diesel fleet oils IMO) but this last formulation was terrible from a shifting point of view- T5 was much better, again at least in my bike and my experience.
And the differences I have noticed are definitely due to the oil being used because they change immediately when the oil is changed and nothing else done to the bike. Something like clutch hydraulics could not cause that unless the hydraulic system was changed in some way at the same time the oil was changed.
Just for chuckles, it would be interesting to see what you thought of Rotella 15W-40 and C-14 shifting. It works much, much better than T6 in my bike. Delvac 15W-40 seems to work even better (another diesel fleet oil). I am going to try Delo 15W-40 next. Another benefit of these oils is that they are all quite inexpensive; I do not use them because they are cheap, I use them because they are excellent oils but the cheap aspect is a great side- advantage.
What I do find amazing though is how some users find some oils to allow very nice shifting while others of us find those identical oils to cause notchy shifting. That just does not make any sense to me- I am sure it is true and I believe the information, I just cannot find any logical reason why different models of the same motorcycle would respond so differently to the same motor oil? By the way, the best shifting oil I ever used was Pennzoil 10W-40 which is also the least expensive oil I have ever used. Maybe using recycled oil would be the cat's pajamas? ;D
Brian
I have been puzzled for years about the reports of "notchy" shifting here; one because I had never experienced "notchy" shifting and two I don't understand the implied correlation between oil "quality" and shifting performance. Lubrication of the simple mechanical moving parts of the shifting mechanisms would seem to demand many many times less lubrication/oil quality than parts like cam lobes, crank bearings, pistons rings and cylindar walls. So it seems to me if your oil has broken down to the pint that it can't properly lubricate the shift mehanisms than you engine should be toast.
So what causes poor shift quality or "notchy" shifting? I think it can only be three things, misadjusted shift lever or clutch lever, inadequate hydraulic pressure or clutch drag due to excess oil viscosity Have you ever started a cold bike and noticed with the clutch pulled fully and in first gear the bike wants to creep forward? That is clutch drag. It usually goes away when the oil warms up.
So when a batch of oil starts to get old what is it that causes poor shifting. In my view it can't be loss of viscosity. Prove me wrong please.
Interestingly enough, other than hydraulic pressure problems or misadjusted levers I had never in 40+ years experienced poor shift quality in any motorcycle until I tried some Motul V300 15W50, considered an excellent synthetic motorcycle specific oil, in my C14. Very minor but it is noticeable. However, there is now no change after draining the Motul and going back to Rotell T6 5W40 so it could be that my nearly 5 year old, 83000 mile Concours is past her prime.
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When we have some very knowledgeable people like the S.A.E. and the designers, metallurgists etc.. doing our oil research for us.... why worry? Read the directions in your owners manual and save the verbal thrashing for something more appropriate like car tires on your bike.
Paranoia will destroy ya, and it all comes down to money and scare tactics. Who is "actually" an expert, who do we trust, who is not in it for themselves or the companies they work for? Oil analysis has been done on plenty of bikes running the fleet oils, some have even shown it to be superior to several high end "moto specific" oils. ;) Never had a bike that burned oil, never had a clutch slip, shifting and engine temps have been excellent.......this has all been with Rotella and Delvac in my crankcases. Do as you wish, I will keep on using the diesel oils "good stuff".
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there ya go. get all the information you can and decide for yourself, not what some one else thinks.its the bike owners decision let them run what ever oil they want.im not going to change the way i service my bike because of some ones opinion and neither should any one else.
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<snip...>
What I do find amazing though is how some users find some oils to allow very nice shifting while others of us find those identical oils to cause notchy shifting. That just does not make any sense to me- I am sure it is true and I believe the information, I just cannot find any logical reason why different models of the same motorcycle would respond so differently to the same motor oil? By the way, the best shifting oil I ever used was Pennzoil 10W-40 which is also the least expensive oil I have ever used. Maybe using recycled oil would be the cat's pajamas? ;D
Brian
Totally agree with this. After hearing from Pokey and Jim about how bad Amsoil worked for them, and knowing how well it has worked in my previous bikes, I tried some in my C14. It worked great w/ very smooth shifting right to the end, even though I left it in a little too long (7,654 miles), as I was waiting to do the valve adjustment before changing it.
After the valve adjust, I changed the oil and used the same exact oil from the same exact case as the first batch, and after the first couple hundred miles, very notchy shifting. :banghead:
So WTH?
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You should have listened to Pokey and Jim.... ::) ;)
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I race outboard boats and visit a website from the Texas / La area ( Byuboyz,com ) most of their racers work in the oil indusrty in one way or another, One of the guys that works in the packaging dept of a very large oil refinery said they package MOST brands there just different packaging , same oil, except for Rotella , then about a year year and a half ago he said they changed the formula for Rotella and he said be AFRAID , VERY AFRAID he did not explain? I own Eleven Diesels and I always use straight weight Rotella oil, I was told a long time ago straight weight will not break down as quick, plus it never gets below 32 degrees here , Naples Fl. I take that back I do used Mobil 1 truck oil in my Cummins diesel , bike and car, I like wasting my money on oil, one of my bad habits ::)
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You should have listened to Pokey and Jim.... ::) ;)
But that's so hard to do. :)
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It took me many years to come to this conclusion. I run whatever brand of oil the dealer I bought the vehicle from recommends, whether motorcycles or cars.
I have the dealer to do all my maintenance, including change the oil. And I use their filter. I am more than capable of doing my own maintenance. However, I also can afford for the dealer to do it for me. Crap, I even let them change the wiper blades!!! So I let them screw me. But it puts the liability on them.
Had a water pump go out at 42K miles on my Jeep Rubicon, just out of warranty. Dealer pulled the pump and started running on my ass about how corroded it was. Interestingy enough, they had flushed the engine and radiator and changed the antifreeze out at 36K miles. They ate the bill.
Same with brakes on my Honda CRV. Master cylinder went out just months after they had "flushed" the brake lines. They at the bill.
Clutch went out on my Suzuki Hayabusa (still in warranty). Shop manager was asking what kind of oil I used to tear the plates up. Told him I had no frigging idea as he had done 100% of the maintenance work and obviously used a crappy oil, if that's what caused the problem. New clutch at no cost.
VW replaced a motor in my 2001 Jetta VR6 when it was 40000 miles out of warranty. Same scenario. All of the maintenance was done by them, at their recommended schedule, etc. (this one took a little time to pull off_
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The very best shifting I have ever experienced is my 2006 Ducati 999R. Different brands of oil make no difference in shifting quality.
What do y'all think that could be? (hint: a traditional Ducati feature).
So.... if what I'm getting at here is true, then maybe that explains part of the reason some oils work better than others in our C-14 as regards to shifting feel.
(it's no fun if I just come out and say it).
NeFretka
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aggressive shifting at high rpm 8)
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The very best shifting I have ever experienced is my 2006 Ducati 999R. Different brands of oil make no difference in shifting quality.
What do y'all think that could be? (hint: a traditional Ducati feature).
So.... if what I'm getting at here is true, then maybe that explains part of the reason some oils work better than others in our C-14 as regards to shifting feel.
(it's no fun if I just come out and say it).
NeFretka
DRY CLUTCH. What I have been saying all along. Something about the old oil makes the wet cluctches drag.
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Yeah, I have noticed this too but didn't want to say anything because it makes an uncertain issue even more uncertain. Sometimes changing the oil makes the box shift like glass while at other times, using the identical oil, the bike shifts very well but not quite as smooth. Maybe it has something to do with the oil level? Maybe it depends on how quickly the new oil works its way into the spaces where the old oil is still hanging- the transmission is not force- lubed like the engine itself and so it could take a while for new oil to work around into all the spaces between the sliding parts.
Then there are a million other variables- sometimes when the oil is changed it is warmer than other days. Sometimes the bike runs longer before riding than other times. In the end there are just too many interactions to ever know what is really going on. I content myself with the fact that the major difference is still the specific oil and leave it at that. T6 always causes the bike to shift lousy while Pennzoil always leaves the bike shifting great and I ignore the much smaller variations with each one.
Brian
Totally agree with this. After hearing from Pokey and Jim about how bad Amsoil worked for them, and knowing how well it has worked in my previous bikes, I tried some in my C14. It worked great w/ very smooth shifting right to the end, even though I left it in a little too long (7,654 miles), as I was waiting to do the valve adjustment before changing it.
After the valve adjust, I changed the oil and used the same exact oil from the same exact case as the first batch, and after the first couple hundred miles, very notchy shifting. :banghead:
So WTH?
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Getting OFF track about the dealer can do it all...
Last year year I took my Ram truck to the dealer for the power steering pump , they called me , yeah you need a new pump they were going to put in a new and improved model
$ 1,700. I asked did someone slip up and add a zero, no he said I'll give you a DEAL and not charge you tax, what a swell guy , I bought a rebuilt one for $50.00 and installed it in a hour. :o
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Just did an oil change at 8500 miles, so bike is still has low miles. I've had this one for two months now and have put over 5000 miles on the bike. I used Mobil 1 Syn. and I have noticed a huge difference in shifting. It's as easy going as with a clutch when at the right RPM's. It's a 15,000 mile oil, although I don't believe that I will go that far. I will keep an eye on the sight glass as the miles go and when it looks dirty I will change the oil then and make sure that it's not guming up. Does anyone else use a synthetic oil, and what is your experience with it?
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Just did an oil change at 8500 miles, so bike is still has low miles. I've had this one for two months now and have put over 5000 miles on the bike. I used Mobil 1 Syn. and I have noticed a huge difference in shifting. It's as easy going as with a clutch when at the right RPM's. It's a 15,000 mile oil, although I don't believe that I will go that far. I will keep an eye on the sight glass as the miles go and when it looks dirty I will change the oil then and make sure that it's not gumming up. Does anyone else use a synthetic oil, and what is your experience with it?
Yes Mobil 1 Synthetic is claimed to be a 15,000 mile oil in cars but please don't expect it to last quite that long in a bike as the tranny and clutch share the same oil with the motor and that is simply not the case with car motors. The sight glass is meant for keeping an eye on the level only: oil is full of detergents that are designed to keep the inside of your motor clean so the oil is SUPPOSED to look dirty. Change your filter according the manual or sooner and pick an interval that coincides with filter change to do an oil change or whenever it makes you feel warm and fuzzy as you will not likely find any evidence of gumming unless to are grossly abusing the engine and/or oil.
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Yes Mobil 1 Synthetic is claimed to be a 15,000 mile oil in cars but please don't expect it to last quite that long in a bike as the tranny and clutch share the same oil with the motor and that is simply not the case with car motors. The sight glass is meant for keeping an eye on the level only: oil is full of detergents that are designed to keep the inside of your motor clean so the oil is SUPPOSED to look dirty. Change your filter according the manual or sooner and pick an interval that coincides with filter change to do an oil change or whenever it makes you feel warm and fuzzy as you will not likely find any evidence of gumming unless to are grossly abusing the engine and/or oil.
Thanks for the input Admin. . I also forgot to mention that it is a 15w-50, any pro's or con's to this. I'm thinking I may get 5-8k miles on an oil change, as you said I will have to keep an eye on the sight glass and make a decision as to a good interval to make oil changes. Thanks for any input.
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I've used 10w40 Mobil1 MC oil and it worked well, but expensive. I change my oil and filter at 5k regardless of the type or what it's spec'd at. T is right, I wouldn't go beyond the spec on the change interval for the bike which is 7500 miles, I think. That 15k spec is for autos. It's not on the MC oil.
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Thanks for the input Admin. . I also forgot to mention that it is a 15w-50, any pro's or con's to this. I'm thinking I may get 5-8k miles on an oil change, as you said I will have to keep an eye on the sight glass and make a decision as to a good interval to make oil changes. Thanks for any input.
I like your taste in oil as it is the same as mine for my bike.... :) Being an Engineer aboard ship for closest to 30 years I've grown to prefer oils with more body to support plain bearing equipment as the only thing between you and metal to metal contact is the hydrodynamic wedge of oil and it is my firm belief that heavier weight oil will resist squish better than lighter weight oils.
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I like your taste in oil as it is the same as mine for my bike.... :) Being an Engineer aboard ship for closest to 30 years I've grown to prefer oils with more body to support plain bearing equipment as the only thing between you and metal to metal contact is the hydrodynamic wedge of oil and it is my firm belief that heavier weight oil will resist squish better than lighter weight oils.
Squish? I just love it when you talk technical... ;)
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It took me many years to come to this conclusion. I run whatever brand of oil the dealer I bought the vehicle from recommends, whether motorcycles or cars.
I have the dealer to do all my maintenance, including change the oil. And I use their filter. I am more than capable of doing my own maintenance. However, I also can afford for the dealer to do it for me. Crap, I even let them change the wiper blades!!! So I let them screw me. But it puts the liability on them.
Had a water pump go out at 42K miles on my Jeep Rubicon, just out of warranty. Dealer pulled the pump and started running on my ass about how corroded it was. Interestingy enough, they had flushed the engine and radiator and changed the antifreeze out at 36K miles. They ate the bill.
Same with brakes on my Honda CRV. Master cylinder went out just months after they had "flushed" the brake lines. They at the bill.
Clutch went out on my Suzuki Hayabusa (still in warranty). Shop manager was asking what kind of oil I used to tear the plates up. Told him I had no frigging idea as he had done 100% of the maintenance work and obviously used a crappy oil, if that's what caused the problem. New clutch at no cost.
VW replaced a motor in my 2001 Jetta VR6 when it was 40000 miles out of warranty. Same scenario. All of the maintenance was done by them, at their recommended schedule, etc. (this one took a little time to pull off_
That is allot of BS to deal with... I hate Stealerships especially all the retarded service departments. You can't trust them to do the work they charge you for and when they do the work they screw up everything like over filling oil, replaced Radiator in truck and didn't tighten the clamps on transmission cooler lines, washed the vehicle with both rear windows down... I could go on and on but I tried different dealers and they all suck.
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Just to let you all know... I made the switch to the dark side and changed my oil from my normal Mobil 1 Syn motorcycle oil that was over $10 per quart to the Mobile Delvac and I have about 700 miles on it this far and I can say that I did noticed a improvement in shifting (but this is comparing worn out 5k mile Mobil syn to brand new Mobile Delvac)... I like the price and we shall see how long the smooth shifting last but so far so good and the price is great!!!
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Same with brakes on my Honda CRV. Master cylinder went out just months after they had "flushed" the brake lines. They at the bill.
Clutch went out on my Suzuki Hayabusa (still in warranty). Shop manager was asking what kind of oil I used to tear the plates up. Told him I had no frigging idea as he had done 100% of the maintenance work and obviously used a crappy oil, if that's what caused the problem. New clutch at no cost.
VW replaced a motor in my 2001 Jetta VR6 when it was 40000 miles out of warranty. Same scenario. All of the maintenance was done by them, at their recommended schedule, etc. (this one took a little time to pull off_
I had a '98 CRV, the auto tranny shuddered after I used M1 atf in it. Replaced it with Honda brand atf, all was good. Local dealer said that Suzuki fork fluid is crap, only carries it in case he needs to a warranty repair on a Suzuki motorcycle fork, otherwise he uses/sells different brands (like Belray).
With VW, they are frick'en scary when it comes to servicing. I have a TDI and have heard of numerous accounts of them using non spec oil (especially with the PD cars which needed a special oil). They were supposed to redo the wiring on my heated seat due to a recall. Went to dealer (who is 40 miles away), set up appointment, I drove car there a week later with wife following, dropped it off, three days later, went to pick it up and they said they couldn't fix it, they didn't have all the parts.. f them. A salesman asked me if I wanted to see a Routan, their rebadged Chrysler van and I told him "Chrysler quality combined with VW service? Sounds like a car from hell!".
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Ok...so I have done some searching and I am looking at using either Mobile 1 10w/40 synthetic or Texas Tea 10w/40 motorcycle synthetic. I saw in a post Texas Tea is on Amazon for $39.99 shipped and no tax. I confirmed. Not a bad price. The Texas Tea says it is a motorcycle oil and it appears you guys a using both the Mobile 1 10w/40 synthetic motor oil and/or motorcycle oil? Any recommendations on using any one of the three?
Gotta keep a good ole oil post going.
Peace!!!
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Never heard of Texas Tea oil.
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Here is the Texas Tea motorcycle oil from Amazon.
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Here are a couple links to the Texas Tea:
http://www.texastealubes.com/ (http://www.texastealubes.com/)
http://www.sears.com/search=TEXAS%20TEA%20Motorcycle%20Oil%2010W%2040%20100%20Synthetic?storeId=10153&yikes_prod=true&catalogId=12605&autoRedirect=false (http://www.sears.com/search=TEXAS%20TEA%20Motorcycle%20Oil%2010W%2040%20100%20Synthetic?storeId=10153&yikes_prod=true&catalogId=12605&autoRedirect=false)
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Here are a couple links to the Texas Tea:
http://www.texastealubes.com/ (http://www.texastealubes.com/)
http://www.sears.com/search=TEXAS%20TEA%20Motorcycle%20Oil%2010W%2040%20100%20Synthetic?storeId=10153&yikes_prod=true&catalogId=12605&autoRedirect=false (http://www.sears.com/search=TEXAS%20TEA%20Motorcycle%20Oil%2010W%2040%20100%20Synthetic?storeId=10153&yikes_prod=true&catalogId=12605&autoRedirect=false)
Have a HUGE Sears down the road, I need to go check this out.....thanks.
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Have a HUGE Sears down the road, I need to go check this out.....thanks.
I checked their site out. The product seems to be a good quality oil and it appears they have drivers/riders who they sponsor. Can't beat the price.
Additionally, They are listed on the COG Forum site as an oil that meets Kawa specs.
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From their site...specs sheet.
And from a 2007 first edition Concours Service Manual (which I assume from 2008-2012 C14s are the same engine/specs). Someone confirm?
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2008 through 2102 C14 eh? Aye, it was a good run.
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Dino to Mobile 1 4T 10W40 about 2 hours ago, capped with a Bosch 3323 filter.
Changed the final drive gear oil as well (again) - second time within the first 10K miles (just for the helluvit).
I have a ~2,500 mile trip next week, so we'll see how it performs over that time frame.