Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: katata1100 on December 24, 2011, 11:05:41 AM
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Doesn't matter whether it is 8 degrees or 30 degrees- get the flashing low battery sing on my computer. Yesterday morning, got both when it was 8 degrees, otherwise I get just the back tire when it is 30 degrees. Riding for about 5-10 minutes makes it go off. Is this normal or should I take to the dealer.And, if I take to dealer, is this a good time for new tires (both are worn but serviceable). My bike is a '11 with 6k miles.
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It is common and it <may> be normal but it is not correct, at least in my opinion. The batteries inside the sensors drop a little in voltage when it is cold and that trips the "low battery" aspect of the control chip on the TPS sensor itself. The sensors still read the tire's pressure, and when they warm a bit the warning will clear itself but I found it quite annoying on my bike and had both sensors replaced under warranty.
You can also clear the warning (and any other warning such as low fuel but not outright errors) by pushing and holding the top button while pressing and releasing the bottom button on the dash. The warning will clear the screen and then the red warning LED on the left side of the display will be lit. Unfortunately this resets itself each time the ignition is turned off so in the case of the tire sensor warnings it can display multiple times per day. Also, you have to clear each error individually so it has to be done one time for both the front and rear warnings.
Some dealers have mounted new tires at little or no charge if they are replacing the sensors under warranty anyway. You could ask about it and see how it goes.
Brian
Doesn't matter whether it is 8 degrees or 30 degrees- get the flashing low battery sing on my computer. Yesterday morning, got both when it was 8 degrees, otherwise I get just the back tire when it is 30 degrees. Riding for about 5-10 minutes makes it go off. Is this normal or should I take to the dealer.And, if I take to dealer, is this a good time for new tires (both are worn but serviceable). My bike is a '11 with 6k miles.
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If it clears up after a few miles it is normal. Taking it to the dealer will do nothing.By the time you get there it will be off anyway
Even if you can get them to replace the unit the new one will do the same in cold weather.
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The new TPS sensors in my bike have not given the warning in the cold since they have been installed. The warning usually starts after a couple of years of use, not when they are brand new. I routinely use my bike down into and below the 20F range and again, new sensors (more precisely, new batteries) will not show the warning even in the cold.
Brian
If it clears up after a few miles it is normal. Taking it to the dealer will do nothing.By the time you get there it will be off anyway
Even if you can get them to replace the unit the new one will do the same in cold weather.
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Why can't Kawasaki come up with decent and reasonably priced TPS sensors? What so special about them being on a motorcycle? These types of sensors are being used on millions of cars and they do not fail after a year or two.
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Why can't Kawasaki come up with decent and reasonably priced TPS sensors? What so special about them being on a motorcycle? These types of sensors are being used on millions of cars and they do not fail after a year or two.
That's not completely accurate. I believe the Scions, and at least one other brand have been having similar issues at one point. Mine are doing it too, I had them replaced last winter. It seems NOW they need to mess up again. I'm going to take it in again, see what they say. Temps here have been in the 30s. NO SNOW, but 30s just the same.
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If it clears up after a few miles it is normal. Taking it to the dealer will do nothing.By the time you get there it will be off anyway
Even if you can get them to replace the unit the new one will do the same in cold weather.
I disagree on both counts. Mine started doing the same thing at a year old. It would come and go on cool days, and go progressively worse over a few months. It always stopped while I was riding, but I was tired of having to screw with it. So on one ride I took a picture of the message with the odometer reading showing. Then a weak or so later I took another picture of it. Then I went to the dealer and showed them the picture. They replaced it under warranty. It has never done it again, so obviously replacing it with a new one fixed it.
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Mine did not do it the first year. It does it consistently every time the weather is cold. And goes away after the tires warm up. It might be a good idea to take some pictures and bring it in for replacement if you are getting close to the end of you warranty. That way you have fresh TPS's for a while!
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I disagree on both counts. Mine started doing the same thing at a year old. It would come and go on cool days, and go progressively worse over a few months. It always stopped while I was riding, but I was tired of having to screw with it. So on one ride I took a picture of the message with the odometer reading showing. Then a weak or so later I took another picture of it. Then I went to the dealer and showed them the picture. They replaced it under warranty. It has never done it again, so obviously replacing it with a new one fixed it.
I have to disagree with you. , I had the front unit replaced July 8th, than November I got the low battery warning again, they replaced the unit again on November 17th and the other morning when I lift in about 27 degrees it showed LOW BATYTERY for a few miles then cleared up. I have had 2 new units in 1 year.
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It's the passivation layer and it is a compromise: we could not have 5 year batteries without it. The same electrochemistry that makes the batteries last longer than other technologies causes the temporary voltage diip that triggers the warning. The way I see it the ecu should have been programmed to wait longer before triggering the warning. That would mean looking at psi --- for maybe 2 to five minutes when it's cold out but I think that would be preferable to having to perform the double button reset with winter gloves on..
Here is some info on lithium ion and passivation. It is about rechargeable camcoder batts but I think the basic info is applicable to our TPS.
http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/battery/lithium.html (http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/battery/lithium.html)
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Here is an interesting quote about passivation in LI/SO2 (sulpher dioxide) I think the TPS batts are LI/MN02 (manganese dioxide) but I suspect the finding is still applicable.
"Voltage delay characteristics in LI/SO2 cells were tabulated by Bro
(1). Discharge at low temperatures following high temperature storage
exacerbates the delay. High temperature storage increases the rate of the
lithium passivation layer formation and the low temperatures limit diffusion
processes, thereby increasing the polarization of the passivation layer."
What this means is that some typical riding and storage habits work against us. Heading out on a cold morning then parking it in the warmer afternoon or even worse, a warm garage.
The quote was from http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA193243 (http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA193243)
it is a PDF
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Yep, all good info. but I don't think the problem is in the ECU, it is in the controller inside the TPS itself. The sensor just reports the low battery fault, not what the battery voltage is.
The tire pressure is still sent and displayed even during the 'low sensor battery' warning- clear the warning and the current tire pressure is shown in the pressure display.
Kawasaki could work around the problem by not displaying the low voltage warning until something like 10 minutes after starting- that would be enough time to clear the great majority of false errors that we seem to be suffering through though.
Brian
It's the passivation layer and it is a compromise: we could not have 5 year batteries without it. The same electrochemistry that makes the batteries last longer than other technologies causes the temporary voltage diip that triggers the warning. The way I see it the ecu should have been programmed to wait longer before triggering the warning. That would mean looking at psi --- for maybe 2 to five minutes when it's cold out but I think that would be preferable to having to perform the double button reset with winter gloves on..
Here is some info on lithium ion and passivation. It is about rechargeable camcoder batts but I think the basic info is applicable to our TPS.
http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/battery/lithium.html (http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/battery/lithium.html)
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I have to disagree with you. , I had the front unit replaced July 8th, than November I got the low battery warning again, they replaced the unit again on November 17th and the other morning when I lift in about 27 degrees it showed LOW BATYTERY for a few miles then cleared up. I have had 2 new units in 1 year.
Okay, maybe we should not have disagreed with each other. Let's put it another way. for most of us, when we got a new one installed, the problem went away. For you it did not. I had the same thing happen on my Goldwing at just over two years old. They put in a new one and the problem is gone also.
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I don't really care what the problem is, it is a pain. After discussions with the dealer, it became clear that the TPS is an ongoing challenge. Fixing it now is fine, but in a couple years you will probably be repeating the process, only this time on your tab. I just had them turn the thing off for good, and use a $2 tire gauge to check the pressure. Done. Now if they could come up with a way to turn off KIPASS... ::)
Ride safe...
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I don't really care what the problem is, it is a pain. After discussions with the dealer, it became clear that the TPS is an ongoing challenge. Fixing it now is fine, but in a couple years you will probably be repeating the process, only this time on your tab. I just had them turn the thing off for good, and use a $2 tire gauge to check the pressure. Done. Now if they could come up with a way to turn off KIPASS... ::)
Ride safe...
Now if they could come up with a way to turn off KIPASS........
Easy Kirby.......down boy!
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I don't really care what the problem is, it is a pain. After discussions with the dealer, it became clear that the TPS is an ongoing challenge. Fixing it now is fine, but in a couple years you will probably be repeating the process, only this time on your tab. I just had them turn the thing off for good, and use a $2 tire gauge to check the pressure. Done. Now if they could come up with a way to turn off KIPASS... ::)
Ride safe...
I get your frustration, but if you have a flat tire just before entering a series of really nice curves, that tire gauge sitting on your workbench at home won't give you much warning.
BTW, I'd be willing on betting that replacing a sensor is no more than putting a new rear tire on the bike - and I don't know about you, but I do that a couple of times a year. Do you think Kawasaki should be covering that?
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If it clears up after a few miles it is normal. Taking it to the dealer will do nothing.By the time you get there it will be off anyway
Even if you can get them to replace the unit the new one will do the same in cold weather.
I understand that it might do it in cold weather however my 09 came on in the mornings in SUMMER. I finally got it in to be replaced and even in the cold winter weather they don't come on. Never had an issue with the rear one since it was replaced a week after I bought the bike (never worked). Not all of them should do it in cold weather, and I would understand if it was REALLY cold but c'mon, ive had them come on at 50+ degrees, which tells me its an issue that will vary sensor to sensor.
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Dont think has ben asked! Can we change the battery in it then? I have an 08 thats recently doing it, but goes off when the tires warm up...
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Dont think has ben asked! Can we change the battery in it then? I have an 08 thats recently doing it, but goes off when the tires warm up...
The battery can be changed but it takes a bit of skill. The sensor wasn't designed with battery changing in mind. It was designed for the whole unit to be replaced.
To change the battery you have to open up the sensor, desolder the old battery and solder a new one in.
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BTW, I'd be willing on betting that replacing a sensor is no more than putting a new rear tire on the bike - and I don't know about you, but I do that a couple of times a year. Do you think Kawasaki should be covering that?
Uninstalling the rear wheel, demounting the tire, removing a sensor, installing a sensor, syncing the sensor, remounting a tire, testing the sensor, re-balancing the wheel, and remounting the wheel is a pretty major operation.... and impossible without all the right tools, most of which are far outside the reach of normal people (Tire balancer? ECU programming?).
I certainly do not have to replace MY rear tire every rear, much less multiple times a year. Personally, I think the design is a bit insane. I keep thinking that, certainly, something could have been designed to charge the batteries (or use no batteries) from the available kinetic energy.
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I understand that it might do it in cold weather however my 09 came on in the mornings in SUMMER. I finally got it in to be replaced and even in the cold winter weather they don't come on. Never had an issue with the rear one since it was replaced a week after I bought the bike (never worked). Not all of them should do it in cold weather, and I would understand if it was REALLY cold but c'mon, ive had them come on at 50+ degrees, which tells me its an issue that will vary sensor to sensor.
It varies with your riding habits: frequency and duration and with your parking location (heated vs non heated garage, etc. At 60,000 miles mine have stopped doing it. It could be because the batteries have aged but it could also be because I am now riding more.
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Previous discussion on the Tire Pressure Monitoring System...
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=680.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=680.0)
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Uninstalling the rear wheel, demounting the tire, removing a sensor, installing a sensor, syncing the sensor, remounting a tire, testing the sensor, re-balancing the wheel, and remounting the wheel is a pretty major operation.... and impossible without all the right tools, most of which are far outside the reach of normal people (Tire balancer? ECU programming?).
I certainly do not have to replace MY rear tire every rear, much less multiple times a year. Personally, I think the design is a bit insane. I keep thinking that, certainly, something could have been designed to charge the batteries (or use no batteries) from the available kinetic energy.
I have heard that the TPS device is the same one as used in Goldwings. They may also have the problem but if they did I think we would have heard about it. I think Honda probably just came up with a better way of handling the voltage info transmitted by the TPS.
It seems foolish to display "low Battery" info if the battery is not user replaceable anyway. But it is even worse to display false info.
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It seems foolish to display "low Battery" info if the battery is not user replaceable anyway. But it is even worse to display false info.
Well, not really. It indicates what the problem actually is. Far better than displaying something like "TPS Fault". They have to display SOMETHING to let the user know why there is no reading. Like others, I think they least they should do would be to program a delay so the warning is deferred a bit until it is sure it is not just temporary. Hell, the bike KNOWS what the ambient temp is, it could even use that in the decision making process.
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Arrrrgh, it just happened to me this morning on the way in to work. Temperature was 28 degrees. Reset itself after the tires warmed up (10 minutes or so.)
I don't really have a problem with a warning being displayed, but just like the low fuel warning, it completely takes over the display, to the exclusion of other useful information. I wish they would just tone it down.
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Uninstalling the rear wheel, demounting the tire, removing a sensor, installing a sensor, syncing the sensor, remounting a tire, testing the sensor, re-balancing the wheel, and remounting the wheel is a pretty major operation.... and impossible without all the right tools, most of which are far outside the reach of normal people (Tire balancer? ECU programming?).
Well, you've just described the process for putting a new tire on a bike. Once you have done that, taking the sensor out is a piece of cake. I do understand the programming issue.
I certainly do not have to replace MY rear tire every rear, much less multiple times a year. Personally, I think the design is a bit insane. I keep thinking that, certainly, something could have been designed to charge the batteries (or use no batteries) from the available kinetic energy.
Okay, I can't argue that you don't have to replace your tire every year except to give you a good natured hard time about not riding the bike enough.
I'm not sure how you can say that the design is insane. The design itself is no different than what is being used in many, many millions of vehicles. The difference is that Kawasaki is obviously using an inferior battery. I've owned many cars with TPMS that use a similar design but have never had to be replaced. I also seldom see people post about them being a problem in the Goldwing forum, even though mine did require a replacement at a little over 2 years (replaced under warranty).
While I don't like the idea of replacing them, I understand that they are a "wear" component of the vehicle much like many other components are. Yes, it should last longer, but then again it does fall under the three year warranty.
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I'm not sure how you can say that the design is insane. The design itself is no different than what is being used in many, many millions of vehicles. The difference is that Kawasaki is obviously using an inferior battery. I've owned many cars with TPMS that use a similar design but have never had to be replaced.
Yeah, I suppose the battery just not lasting is the biggest design flaw. Shouldn't be too much of a stretch to have a lithium battery design last for 7+ years.
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Yeah, I suppose the battery just not lasting is the biggest design flaw. Shouldn't be too much of a stretch to have a lithium battery design last for 7+ years.
We can both agree on that. I think they went low-bid on the batteries.
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:banghead:
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I just deal with it. Mine's been doing it since the first winter I had the bike. Always goes away in summer and always comes back when the temps get below 40.
I personally don't see the need for the warning. Since the batteries weren't designed to be user replaceable anyway, why not just let them go until they won't transmit any longer. So as soon as you see the "--" instead of tire pressure, you know it's time to get them replaced (with a statement in the manual directing as such). Then you can hash out with your dealer whether you think it pooped out too soon and should be replaced under warranty.
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I just deal with it. Mine's been doing it since the first winter I had the bike. Always goes away in summer and always comes back when the temps get below 40.
I personally don't see the need for the warning. Since the batteries weren't designed to be user replaceable anyway, why not just let them go until they won't transmit any longer. So as soon as you see the "--" instead of tire pressure, you know it's time to get them replaced (with a statement in the manual directing as such). Then you can hash out with your dealer whether you think it pooped out too soon and should be replaced under warranty.
Exactly. No warning at all is better than a false warning. If it took longer to see numbers instead of -- whenever it was cold we would just get used to it and think nothing of it. Most of us anyway
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My 08 gave the warning this morning at 30 degrees. The rear was replaced when I bought the bike in May. I'll take a picture and we'll see how this warranty thing works.
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I bought my 09' inn Feb 11. My dealer would not replace the TPS until it completely stopped working; which was a couple of months later. Now my front one is starting the warning. Hopefully it will be completely dead before too long. ;)
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I get your frustration, but if you have a flat tire just before entering a series of really nice curves, that tire gauge sitting on your workbench at home won't give you much warning.
BTW, I'd be willing on betting that replacing a sensor is no more than putting a new rear tire on the bike - and I don't know about you, but I do that a couple of times a year. Do you think Kawasaki should be covering that?
I honestly don't get the benefit here, especially for the cost/hassle factor. The only times I have had road bike flats, I knew it immediately. The TPS would not have been any help at all, kind of like the tornado warning siren after the tornado has already been through. While my TPS was working, I never had a warning until the unit started to go bad. I have now ridden thousands of miles without it, including both daily commutes and long tours, and do not miss it. Have you priced new units? Crazy! I wish they had put the money they wasted on TPS into a better seat, better windscreen, or even heated grips.
BTW - My tire gauge always rides with me, and does not sit on the bench.
Ride safe ... 8)
Dave
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I honestly don't get the benefit here, especially for the cost/hassle factor. The only times I have had road bike flats, I knew it immediately. The TPS would not have been any help at all, kind of like the tornado warning siren after the tornado has already been through. While my TPS was working, I never had a warning until the unit started to go bad. I have now ridden thousands of miles without it, including both daily commutes and long tours, and do not miss it.
I will explain where he was going. You are correct that the TPS is not going to help with a fast leak. But many leaks are not the fast kind.... He is saying, by being able to monitor your pressure while riding, you can catch a low/slow leak and be warned before it becomes dangerous. I have ridden bikes for many thousands of miles for over a decade and I have never had a leak or flat of any kind (knock on wood), but that doesn't mean it isn't nice to know the feature is there and working :)
It is also convenient to be able to look at your pressures at the start of a trip, without having to spend a lot of time checking them manually, to make sure you will get the best gas mileage, performance, and prevent tire damage. Would be nice if we could do that BEFORE moving, but at least I know quickly enough that I am still on my block and can go right back home to fix the issue.
It is a shame that Kawasaki didn't spec the unit to use a battery that would last much longer. That is where most of the hassle and expense come into play. $1 or $2 more lithium probably could have doubled the service life.
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I will explain where he was going. You are correct that the TPS is not going to help with a fast leak. But many leaks are not the fast kind.... He is saying, by being able to monitor your pressure while riding, you can catch a low/slow leak and be warned before it becomes dangerous. I have ridden bikes for many thousands of miles for over a decade and I have never had a leak or flat of any kind (knock on wood), but that doesn't mean it isn't nice to know the feature is there and working :)
It is also convenient to be able to look at your pressures at the start of a trip, without having to spend a lot of time checking them manually, to make sure you will get the best gas mileage, performance, and prevent tire damage. Would be nice if we could do that BEFORE moving, but at least I know quickly enough that I am still on my block and can go right back home to fix the issue.
It is a shame that Kawasaki didn't spec the unit to use a battery that would last much longer. That is where most of the hassle and expense come into play. $1 or $2 more lithium probably could have doubled the service life.
This will make about 10 times I have posted this. I guess everbody thinks I am a dolt and ignores me. There is nothing wrong with the battery. It is the computer programming that falsely gives a low battery warning that is the problem. The battery is designed to go dormant when the bike is parked and wake up when it is in motion. Mine continues to do just that after 4.5 years and 65,000 miles. Where else will you find a coin size, non rechaheable battery that will last for 5 years of 2 to 8 hours of daily, constant use?.
As for the TPS concept itself, I have been save from being stranded twice, once while 400 miles from home on a trip in the middle of nowhere. Both times I got the alert in time to get to a service station where repairs could be safely and easily made. A third time I was 5 miles from home and knew the leak was slow enough I could ride home safely. A great featue in my opinion. When I ride my other bikes I miss the TPS.
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This will make about 10 times I have posted this. I guess everbody thinks I am a dolt and ignores me...
Really? ;)
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Lather, I did read where tps sensors do go dormant and "wake up" only when a reading is due. My question would be why is it only oen sensor that shows a battery warning? I know you cannot answer this exactly, but it woudl feel better if both were giving low readings.
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This will make about 10 times I have posted this. I guess everbody thinks I am a dolt and ignores me. There is nothing wrong with the battery. It is the computer programming that falsely gives a low battery warning that is the problem. The battery is designed to go dormant when the bike is parked and wake up when it is in motion. Mine continues to do just that after 4.5 years and 65,000 miles. Where else will you find a coin size, non rechaheable battery that will last for 5 years of 2 to 8 hours of daily, constant use?.
As for the TPS concept itself, I have been save from being stranded twice, once while 400 miles from home on a trip in the middle of nowhere. Both times I got the alert in time to get to a service station where repairs could be safely and easily made. A third time I was 5 miles from home and knew the leak was slow enough I could ride home safely. A great featue in my opinion. When I ride my other bikes I miss the TPS.
Dude - you don't have to explain anything to me, and I really don't need a lecture. I get it , I just disagree. The feature is not worth the cost, as designed is unreliable, and clearly not worth the hassle.
Dave
Ride safe
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Lather, I did read where tps sensors do go dormant and "wake up" only when a reading is due. My question would be why is it only oen sensor that shows a battery warning? I know you cannot answer this exactly, but it woudl feel better if both were giving low readings.
That IS a good question and I don't have an answer or even a guess. For one winter both of mine gave the warning. The next winter only the front. I
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Dude - you don't have to explain anything to me, and I really don't need a lecture. I get it , I just disagree. The feature is not worth the cost, as designed is unreliable, and clearly not worth the hassle.
Dave
Ride safe
I apologize if my post came across the wrong way. I agree the system has its flaws but do not agree that it is not worth the hassle.
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I must just disagree with you Dave,sorry. I had a incident where if I bet my life-maybe front wheel damage,if anything and though the years it wouldn't amounted to "a hill of beans"....but this time it was a problem-TPS told me it was my new rear r-Pilot 2 with a medium leak-enough info not to push it and get to safety. I'm a fan.
Mike
Ride safe
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This will make about 10 times I have posted this. I guess everbody thinks I am a dolt and ignores me. There is nothing wrong with the battery. It is the computer programming that falsely gives a low battery warning that is the problem. The battery is designed to go dormant when the bike is parked and wake up when it is in motion. Mine continues to do just that after 4.5 years and 65,000 miles. Where else will you find a coin size, non rechaheable battery that will last for 5 years of 2 to 8 hours of daily, constant use?.
I don't think you are being ignored, nor do I think you are a dolt :) However, I don't totally agree with your assessment (I just partially agree with it). I don't think it is a programming error- I believe at cold temperatures, when the circuit is first awakened, the battery voltage *is* probably low enough to fall below spec. Being low when cold and first used is typical for older batteries. Also, people have reported total battery rundown after just a few years or less which probably is a problem with battery size/capacity. So the battery low messages are not really "false", they are just too sensitive and perhaps not necessary at that point in the battery's life. I do believe a programming change to give the sensor another moment to "warm up" (actually, voltage up) would help suppress unnecessary messages when the battery is near the tail end of its service life (regardless of how large the battery is).
As for your question- battery service life is a function of capacity (amp hours), how much power is pulled and how often, and some environmental factors. A larger battery will last longer, it is just that simple. Lithium batteries can easily be made to last 10 years in any application, as long as you are free to increase the size/capacity of the battery pack. In this example, had they used TWO coin cells in parallel, it would last exactly twice as long. There is some magic formula the designers used for how large a battery they wanted in the sensor, and I just think they picked a bit too small. A larger battery might cost a bit more and will have a bit more volume and mass. Considering what a PITA it is to replace such a device, it seems to me it would be worth the extra cost/volume/mass... but I don't know exactly what constraints they were working with at the time. I can't image cost would be THAT important, since I estimate that the cost of doubling the cell capacity in the sensor would be less than $1.
As for the TPS concept itself, I have been save from being stranded twice, once while 400 miles from home on a trip in the middle of nowhere. Both times I got the alert in time to get to a service station where repairs could be safely and easily made. A third time I was 5 miles from home and knew the leak was slow enough I could ride home safely. A great featue in my opinion. When I ride my other bikes I miss the TPS.
Couldn't agree more, of course.
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I don't think it is a programming error- .................................... I do believe a programming change to give the sensor another moment to "warm up" (actually, voltage up) would help suppress unnecessary messages
??? ??? :banghead: ??? ???
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I love TPS; it has saved me from probable bad things a couple of times. I just think the low battery warning is useless. When you get it, your options are to ignore it until it goes away or hassle your dealer until he changes out the unit. Why warn you about something that you can't fix yourself when the alternative (the unit stops reading) is just as effective as a warning? Particularly when the system is so prone to false errors?
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I appreciate this thread. Taking a closer look at my warning message on Sat, heres exactly what happened. I started riding int he morning. Temp was 40 degrees. Warmer in my garage though, and it was closer to 55.
The front tps showed "low battery". The rear displayed correct pressure. After 5 or so miles the front warning disappeared and showed 40 psi. The interesting part was this. I ended up near the mountains, so it was colder ....closer to 35 degrees. We stopped and had dinner before going home. Maybe the tire stayed above 55 degrees for the hour we were in the restaurant, but I felt it was cold enough to show another warning, and it did not.
I'll check infrared temps tomorrow and see if I can get some idea of tire temps...at least the outside of the tire.
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My TPMS has been acting a bit different this cold weather season. In the past I've always seen the low bat warnings when it was cold out, both front and rear, and as I rode and the system warmed, it went away. The front is still acting this way but the rear is different. I won't get the warning initially, just the correct pressure reading, but about the time my front warning goes away the rear comes on but goes away after about 10 more mins of riding. :o
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Mine is doing the exact same thing...
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Mine is doing the exact same thing...
Copy cat.
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:)
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I checked the temp this morning on my front rim. It was 42 degrees. Within a quarter mile, both sensors showed a pressure reading, but it took a minute to do so. The rear displayed 42, but the front showed low battery. Within a 2 mile ride the front tps sensor stopped giving the low battery warning. The front rim still showed 42 degrees right against the tps sensor. Obviously it may have warmed slightly from the short ride, but the alloy rim should have been able to show any significant change.
In the name of science I was forced to ride across town and eat. I stayed there for a hour and a half. I checked the rim temp before I left and it was 40 degrees. No low battery warning. I'm starting to believe this hibernation thing. I believe my front sensor is just more sleepy than the rear.
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I checked the temp this morning on my front rim. It was 42 degrees. Within a quarter mile, both sensors showed a pressure reading, but it took a minute to do so. The rear displayed 42, but the front showed low battery. Within a 2 mile ride the front tps sensor stopped giving the low battery warning. The front rim still showed 42 degrees right against the tps sensor. Obviously it may have warmed slightly from the short ride, but the alloy rim should have been able to show any significant change.
In the name of science I was forced to ride across town and eat. I stayed there for a hour and a half. I checked the rim temp before I left and it was 40 degrees. No low battery warning. I'm starting to believe this hibernation thing. I believe my front sensor is just more sleepy than the rear.
There is a lot more to it than just temperature. See reply #10 pf this thread.
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There is a lot more to it than just temperature. See reply #10 pf this thread.
Yes, for sure. It appears the rotation of the tire turns it on???? or ends the hibernation? And thanks for acting as if I would be smart enough to understand that document. Its the nicest thing anyone has done for me this year.
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I think it will work better if you turn a light on in the basement.... ;D
Not sure where this thread went to but our tire pressure sensors are turned on by the wheel rotating (centripetal force); once it hits something like 12 MPH, the sensors turn on and broadcast the pressure about every 20 seconds or so. They have no hibernation mode that I know of. The sensors stay on for something like a minute or two after the bike stops and then turn themselves off; this is done simply to save battery power.
The low battery warning when the sensors are cold is a function of the controller chip used in the sensor: it is a SP 30 from Infineon and the information on how it works is readily available if you want to look. The 'trip point' of the low battery warning is a function of the firmware supplied by Infineon and not part of the programming on the C-14 in any way. The sensors themselves are made by LDL in France, using Infineon's controllers, and supplied to Kawasaki. The last generation sensors seem to be using a later SP 35 controller but I do not know if the battery voltage threshold was changed on the later controller or not.
Brian
Yes, for sure. It appears the rotation of the tire turns it on???? or ends the hibernation? And thanks for acting as if I would be smart enough to understand that document. Its the nicest thing anyone has done for me this year.
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Yes, for sure. It appears the rotation of the tire turns it on???? or ends the hibernation? And thanks for acting as if I would be smart enough to understand that document. Its the nicest thing anyone has done for me this year.
Maybe once you get all those lights in your basement turned on forever you should start with the garage? At least it might warm Connie up a bit.
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Maybe once you get all those lights in your basement turned on forever you should start with the garage? At least it might warm Connie up a bit.
CFL's will save him money if he leaves them on forever but they won't heat the garage much.
(sigh) Always a compromise.
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Three things initially made me choose the C14 over the FJR: 3 year warranty, TPS and KiPass. Since I actually paid over $1000 less for the C14 it was more than worth it. Sure, the TPS units aren't bargain cheap but chances are if you actually keep your bike beyond the extremely generous 36 months (even the FJR only had a 12 month warranty!) then dropping $700 to keep your sensors going is an option, and chances are they'll get replaced under warranty in the 3 years, so you could realistically get 6 years or more before you have to make this decision. The TPS and ABS both have paid for themselves in my use. This griping is getting old about both the TPS and KiPass "haters". Seriously, did you not know it had these two systems when you bought the bike? You could always trade it on on an FJR or the new beemer.... Peace out.
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Wow, the great debate continues!!!! I have 08, 28K on it, and yes, when cold the front TPS stays on with "low battery" which is annoying as hell, but after 5-6 miles .........yep, back to normal, so I'm leaving it for now.
As for the back TPS its fairly new and here's a warning to all, if you get a flat tire.... DONT PUT FIXAFLAT in it or any other kind of liquid/foam fixer!!!! It destroys the TPS, I had to buy a new one, warranty refused to cover it.....
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I was wondering about this:
DONT PUT FIXAFLAT in it or any other kind of liquid/foam fixer!!!! It destroys the TPS, I had to buy a new one, warranty refused to cover it.....
Good to know and I'll pass this along to a pal that was thinking he'd carry a can just in case...
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Very timely thread! I have an '09 and ride year round. This is the first year it started doing this and it is always when it is below freezing. I thought the cold weather must be effecting it and now I know. It happens exactly as described in this thread. I will probably use the warranty to get them replaced.
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My o9 connie start giving me that alert about front sensor low battery last year in cold weather (here in Miami ) just a cupple of times and again now , i took pictures to the information display to proof to thre steeler about the problem and they ordered the sensor so i drop it to day to have it replace