Author Topic: ECU flashing now available  (Read 133727 times)

Offline maxtog

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #320 on: June 22, 2016, 04:05:21 PM »
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline just gone

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #321 on: June 22, 2016, 05:13:53 PM »

Offline Cuda

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #322 on: June 22, 2016, 08:01:48 PM »
Ha. Impressive display of synchronized PMS.
Did I inquire about some aspect of flyectomy or fly fishing........
I know, I know you don't want any distractions from your laser focus on ECU flashing. My bad....






Shut your Fly!
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Offline DaddyFlip

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #323 on: June 22, 2016, 09:16:19 PM »





Shut your Fly!

And leave it alone!
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Offline sanmo

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #324 on: June 27, 2016, 02:07:02 PM »


Shut your Fly!

Come here for the bike and stay for the exquisite humor.......or not.
For instance, little cuda could have gotten more laughs by posting "Shut the Fly Up" instead. Oh well...
2008 Silverdammit C14

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #325 on: July 02, 2016, 06:15:02 AM »
So I have a question... this is a real question, a curiousity...

  Slip ons are extremely popular. Generally 3-500.00, we see in the case of the remus or the akrapovic much more expensive. Go to any gathering of c-14's and almost all the bikes have a slip on of one sort or another. Yet I was listening to a conversation by some c-14 owners, standing by their bikes with slip ons, that they felt the ECU flash wasn't worth the cost. None of them had the flash, they were just justifying why they weren't going to get the ECU flashed. BTW, these statements were made to other guys who do have the flash, and were defending their decision, not to me.

 Being a pretty practical guy, this just leaves me shaking my head. 300.00 for something that really changes the performance  of the bike for the better, vs  the cost of a slip on, which maybe has cool factor but effectively does nothing for the performance.

  So the question... Can anyone who understands human nature explain this to me? In my feeble mind, it doesn't make much sense.  Thanks - steve

 

Offline gPink

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #326 on: July 02, 2016, 06:22:01 AM »
For one ...the ecu upgrade doesn't have any parking lot 'look at me' value. Kind of a 'more chrome' mindset.  ::)

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #327 on: July 02, 2016, 06:35:00 AM »
For one ...the ecu upgrade doesn't have any parking lot 'look at me' value. Kind of a 'more chrome' mindset.  ::)

  Oh yeah, I forgot to add that I put 2000.00 of suspension on my bike, can't see it, either, so nobody knows, but wow was it worth it! Steve

Offline maxtog

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #328 on: July 02, 2016, 06:53:50 AM »
Slip ons are extremely popular. [...]Go to any gathering of c-14's and almost all the bikes have a slip on of one sort or another. Yet I was listening to a conversation by some c-14 owners, [...] that they felt the ECU flash wasn't worth the cost. [...] Can anyone who understands human nature explain this to me?

As I see it, there are three factors at work that would make one value and perform a muffler swap over or before an ECU reflash:

Firstly: Peer pressure is a very powerful thing.  Everyone else has it.  I will be teased by not having it.  I need to look or sound a certain way.  I don't fit the needed stereotype. Given that or something that really does affect performance, it is no surprise most people would pick the muffler every time.  And it can be seen and shown off.  Most won't admit it, but I suspect this is the primary driving force of this decision.

Secondly:  There is still this very pervasive myth that replacing the factory muffler will gain meaningful power and should be the first thing that is done.  It doesn't compute for people that a simple reflash could do much compared to replacing the muffler... oh, sorry, I mean "the exhaust [but not the exhaust system]".

Thirdly: People price/value tangible/physical things more over intangible/conceptual things.  They can have the same real-world value in what they do, but time after time, people will put a lower expected price on something intangible (music, video, software, digital photos, etc) vs physical (cd, dvd, computer, camera, etc).
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Ron Dawg

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #329 on: July 02, 2016, 07:29:20 AM »
Peer pressure;

Positive self & peer reinforcement by just looking at the bike (you can see what you spent right there and so can others-boys and toys);

Perceived cool/competence factor  (i.e. you must be a FAST rider, just look at that can!..)

Some people follow the herd and can't/won't think for themselves or admit it

Think the "incremental improvement is not worth the money" because they haven't tried it. I didn't try it but I valued the opinion of some of my peers who did. And it IS worth it.
You can re-sell it if you don't like it (probably doesn't happen as much as they think) or sell the bike-can't do that with the Flash.

It's all about others, the Flash is all about the rider experience. (I think it's true about a lot of things, but most of my riding is pretty well all about me anyway, so who cares).

Flashy can you can see vs practical mod that you can only feel, not see (see the gaudy riding leathers, helmet graphics, ugly gloves, etc.- more boys & toys- okay with me, not my style). How gaudy is the Aerostitch gear?

Style itself - Who are the Two Brothers and why should I care? Wonder if these guys used to hang at the mall when they were kids? ::) (See point about practical above.)

Last: Loud Pipes Save Lives (they secretly wonder if it's true...)

Ron
2014 C-14 Red

Offline blue14

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #330 on: July 02, 2016, 07:42:49 AM »
Can't explain it Steve.  I have a slip on mainly to lose weight and it looks cool, sounds cool.  Did nothing for power.  I did your flash and it is the best money I have spent on the bike without a doubt, followed closely by the suspension improvements I just did.
2010 C14, 2007 ZX14,  2004 KTM 300SXC

Offline Ron Dawg

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #331 on: July 02, 2016, 07:54:50 AM »
...and there are those who like both! Blue's right. Some like both.

Every product has features and benefits far in excess of the 3-4 that make a particular customer buy. The trick in closing the sale is to identify WHICH 3-5 are attractive to the customer at hand and to sell on that basis. Choosing on one feature or another doesn't change the product, only the perceived benefit being purchased.

Personally, I've got the Flash and am considering a pipe, too because of the weight and looks, but my priorities are mine....
2014 C-14 Red

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #332 on: July 02, 2016, 08:08:28 AM »

Personally, I've got the Flash and am considering a pipe, too because of the weight and looks, but my priorities are mine....


  Interesting. I have an area P full system on mine now, I put t on to build a tune for it. My bike dyno's almost 103 # TQ and 160.8 hp. Crazy strong. I might pull it off though, because there's no way I can even use that power, and I like the throttle response smaller pipes give, even at the loss of power at 10K... I only go there to scare myself  :o :o Steve

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #333 on: July 02, 2016, 08:32:31 AM »
I have an Area P can and the ECU flash..  Like both.
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Offline DaddyFlip

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #334 on: July 02, 2016, 10:40:16 AM »
I agree with the comments so far regarding perceived value of 'can vs. flash'. For the vast majority of C14 owners with average or less riding skill, or the inability to tell the difference in a flashed vs. non-flashed bike, a real performance gain isn't even necessary. The bike has more power and capability than most people can use as-is. If nothing else was ever said on this topic, the previous sentence explains why there is reluctance in getting the flash.

I don't mean the following statement to serve as my review of the flash (yes, I have it), but I don't know that I have the riding chops or the previous experience to tell the difference between the flash and the two OE maps that came with the bike. I couldn't tell any difference in the two OE modes other than the slight bump in RPM going to ECO. So far, I can't tell the difference between SISF and ECO modes; I don't even know what to look/listen/feel for to know the difference. IF the benefits of the flash are real, then the problem in being able to experience them lies with me, or my ability, or my riding style, etc. I'll never reach 10k RPM; I've never been over 6k I don't think, and never will. I bought the flash on faith that the result would be a better overall bike for how I ride it. Maybe my definition of touring or low speed performance is different than SISF's. I don't doubt SISF's ability to tune or evaluate the results of his work, it just may be outside of MY realm to evaluate the results. Like I said, I bought it on faith. Maybe SISF can provide some 'tests' I can do between flash and ECO that demonstrates the difference? Even so, those tests may just be academic; if I can't perceive it in everyday life, then so what?

I'm not disappointed though; one thing I have noticed is an increase in MPG from 42 to 48 and the computed average is matching my odo/fuel pump calculations. I like that- and that is comparing to ECO mode prior to the flash. I have to believe that if the bike is getting 14% better mileage that SOMETHING is better; I just don't know what it is. BUT, my bike is also still breaking in AND I ran a bottle of Techron through it. So who knows?

I'm buying a can too; Area P carbon fiber as it turns out. It's the best looking can out there (to me), mounts the best, integrates to the bike and bag the best, and the owner has convinced me that he builds the highest quality product. If there is an accessory that could presume to tell the moto world that you're not a noob, even superficially, it's the can. For me, some bikes I'm interested in don't need a replacement can; the C14 and ZX14 need a replacement more than just about any other bike out there! Maybe not the ugliest can of all time, but in the top two for sure! Again, if there is a performance benefit, it exists in a place where I can't use it. As far as weight savings, yes it exists, but the average rider with all his farkles and luggage and riding gear won't notice it. Ten to fifteen pounds on a 700 pound bike with a rider and all his stuff? If you claim to notice the difference in what a pipe gives you in performance and weight, then you DEFINITELY need the flash!

BTW… motorcycle riding is mostly about image and feeling regardless of what you ride or how you ride it. So whatever makes a person look good or feel good on a motorcycle will dictate how he uses it and what he buys to accessorize it. I wanted a Harley for 20 years before I bought my first bike. Unfortunately, the type of riding gear that I choose to wear doesn't look good on top of a Harley (to me); it looks way better on a C14. So I ride a C14. And I ramble...
2001 ZR-7s "Ol' Red"
1995 FXDWG

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #335 on: July 02, 2016, 10:58:54 AM »
Daddyflip, I'm kind of astonished that you cannot even perceive a difference between the power and ECO maps... the difference is immediately noticeable upon the click of the switch. I'm leaving the flash out of it, because there's no point. Do you really not feel the engine smooth out in ECO? Do you not feel it slower to respond? Did you notice that the stock power map is either accellerating or decellerating at low rpms, that  it's very hard to just hold a light steady speed?  BTW You never need to exceed 5000 rpm to notice all of this stuff... and it's really very noticeable.

  BTW all things being equal increases in fuel economy prove a better tune. There's just no reason that proper tuning shouldn't be economical, and give the best economy for a given riding style / condition. HTH, Steve

Offline DaddyFlip

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #336 on: July 02, 2016, 11:38:55 AM »
There was more of a difference in clicking the switch between OE power mode and ECO. The bike felt like it would slightly nudge forward and I could sense that maybe the RPMs were higher, even though you really couldn't see it on the tach. It was just a sense that something changed. Maybe that is the smoothing out in ECO you asked about. Now AFTER clicking the switch, I couldn't tell any difference between the two modes. After awhile, I would just go immediately to ECO because I thought that would give me the best mileage. Sometimes I would forget to click the switch and would ride in power mode for a long time before realizing I hadn't changed it. No difference to me. Slower to respond? No. Accel/Decel at low rpms? No, but I spent way more time in ECO than power prior to buying the flash. So I don't think I am wholly qualified to tell the difference in OE power and SISF power.

I perceive nothing when switching between SISF power mode and ECO; there's no noticeable difference to me. There's no difference in how the bike rides or feels. Now, I haven't tried any serious A-B testing between the two modes; I've been running on faith that SISF power is better, so I've given up on comparing and am just riding. I'm bought in, indoctrinated, converted, convinced. Maybe I'm not the best customer you could have hoped for, but I paid like everyone else and I'm not going to give the flash a bad review.

BTW… if I get 6mpg more consistently, the flash will pay for itself in 50,000 miles, even if I get nothing else out of it.

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Offline Deziner

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #337 on: July 02, 2016, 01:14:22 PM »
Never over 6k?  :yikes:    You're still drinking beer. At 7500 you break out the good liquor.  ;D
God does not subtract from a man's life the number of hours spent riding a motorcycle

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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #338 on: July 02, 2016, 01:14:27 PM »
Daddyflip, I'm certainly not picking on you, and I appreciate the support.

   Sometimes I hear / read comments like this. Recently I had a fellow tell me that he was riiding in a gear higher (running lower rpm) after the flash, but that he hadn't gained any power. He didn't understand that it was the extra power that let him ride in that higher gear with ease.

  I think sometimes folks think they should expect another cylinders worth of power. That's not the case... tunes (flashes0 don't make any power, all they can do is "uncover" the power that the engine is capable of producing.

  Also when dealing with low rpm's, power shows up as being able to use less throttle to achieve the same acceleration, using less rpm tp achieve the same acceleration, and better fuel economy. It's not some huge sudden blast of power. In fact a well tuned engine doesn't get that sudden blast of power as it goes to the higher rpms... because the low end power is filled in, so the "power band" isn't as evident. All in all a good tune is actually pretty mellow, there will always be nice calm power available whenever you want it. nothing frantic, and no waiting... it's just there, linear  and consistent, with a little throttle or a lot of throttle. Steve

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #339 on: July 02, 2016, 03:11:27 PM »
There was more of a difference in clicking the switch between OE power mode and ECO. The bike felt like it would slightly nudge forward and I could sense that maybe the RPMs were higher, even though you really couldn't see it on the tach. It was just a sense that something changed. Maybe that is the smoothing out in ECO you asked about. Now AFTER clicking the switch, I couldn't tell any difference between the two modes. After awhile, I would just go immediately to ECO because I thought that would give me the best mileage. Sometimes I would forget to click the switch and would ride in power mode for a long time before realizing I hadn't changed it. No difference to me. Slower to respond? No. Accel/Decel at low rpms? No, but I spent way more time in ECO than power prior to buying the flash. So I don't think I am wholly qualified to tell the difference in OE power and SISF power.

I perceive nothing when switching between SISF power mode and ECO; there's no noticeable difference to me. There's no difference in how the bike rides or feels. Now, I haven't tried any serious A-B testing between the two modes; I've been running on faith that SISF power is better, so I've given up on comparing and am just riding. I'm bought in, indoctrinated, converted, convinced. Maybe I'm not the best customer you could have hoped for, but I paid like everyone else and I'm not going to give the flash a bad review.

BTW… if I get 6mpg more consistently, the flash will pay for itself in 50,000 miles, even if I get nothing else out of it.

I'm sure glad I have the old fashioned C14, original, because all the fuel modes would cornfuse me also....
I have only one fuel mode on mine, and it isn't Eco mode..heheheheh
But I do get great mileage,  never less than 41-42 mpg worst case, pulling my trailer, and riding 2 up.....

When my mileage starts dipping down to the low end, it is my indicator to replace my air filter... and every time I do that, viola... my mpg jumps right back up to almost 50 mpg... for a while... then settles in at around 45-47 mpg.
Id love to have the flash to compare now, but alas, can't happen because I can barely pay the rent now....

I should bugged Bubba way back when he needed beta testers...  I like being a crash test dummy...hehehehe

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..