Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: clogan on April 07, 2013, 06:35:08 PM
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Just brainstorming here...wondering what's possible...
If you are not too worried about security, could the passive fob (the little credit card deal) be spot welded to the magic spot on the stem, so that the knob key worked like a conventional key? You know, park the bike, remove the key if you want, or leave it in the switch if you want, and don't ever worry about losing the big fob, or dead fob batteries, or any of that stuff. Just put the big fob in a drawer someplace and leave it there. If you later on down the line wanna sell or trade the bike, pop off the spot weld, and retrieve the big fob out of the drawer, and everything is back like it was.
Would this work?
Probably not...way too simple.
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Yes, that would work but it really is not a work- around for KiPass, just a different physical way to operate KiPass.
Long ago someone did the very thing you are talking about by taking the RFID part out of a regular (full size, RF type) fob and used silicone sealant to stick it to the lug on the front of the ign. key switch housing. It worked as you describe and made KiPass invisible to the user, more or less (still have to push down on the key to activate the system), and the owner simply took the ignition key with him when he left the bike. But in reality, KiPass was still operational and the system still needed to function properly for the bike to start. And the system was still just as vulnerable to the dreaded stuck KiPass activation switch problem as any other C-14.
Just a suggestion but learn to love (well, at least shoot for neutral) KiPass and / or similar systems. They are the wave of the future and no amount of bemoaning the "good old days" (when we died from simple infections) is going to stop the trend. More and more cars are coming through with some type of authentication system, and bikes are too although not so much in the US yet. But like electric lights, it is the new trend and we will be seeing more of it. Soon enough something else new will come along to act as a lightening rod for our fear and loathing (like self- inflating tires or something) and the whole fob thing will no longer be the newfangled thing- like fuel injection and electronic ignition, which were at least as horrible as KiPass when introduced.
Brian
Just brainstorming here...wondering what's possible...
If you are not too worried about security, could the passive fob (the little credit card deal) be spot welded to the magic spot on the stem, so that the knob key worked like a conventional key? You know, park the bike, remove the key if you want, or leave it in the switch if you want, and don't ever worry about losing the big fob, or dead fob batteries, or any of that stuff. Just put the big fob in a drawer someplace and leave it there. If you later on down the line wanna sell or trade the bike, pop off the spot weld, and retrieve the big fob out of the drawer, and everything is back like it was.
Would this work?
Probably not...way too simple.
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Have you met Ned Ludd?
http://youtu.be/_edoKp4IdUA (http://youtu.be/_edoKp4IdUA)
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Just brainstorming here...wondering what's possible...
If you are not too worried about security, could the passive fob (the little credit card deal) be spot welded to the magic spot on the stem, so that the knob key worked like a conventional key? You know, park the bike, remove the key if you want, or leave it in the switch if you want, and don't ever worry about losing the big fob, or dead fob batteries, or any of that stuff. Just put the big fob in a drawer someplace and leave it there. If you later on down the line wanna sell or trade the bike, pop off the spot weld, and retrieve the big fob out of the drawer, and everything is back like it was.
Would this work?
Probably not...way too simple.
Dead batteries in a fob is never a worry, since it is both active and passive RFID.
Like Brian said... yes, it will work. It is disabling a major antitheft function, but it would work like a conventional bike that way. It is a shame the passive doesn't have ANY range, or the passive RFID could be put in the head of the key (the way it was on my last car) and then you could retain the antitheft and yet act conventional as another option.
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Gotta admit, if you looked up pictures of Luddites, mine would probably be there. I do appreciate simplicity, but I also appreciate technology when it solves a problem for me. But fobs are solutions to problems I do not have...especially on bikes. My simple little KLR operates with a plain old metal ignition key that has not left the switch in probably two years. Guess I'd feel differently if my bike was frequently left unattended for extended periods of time.
The KIPASS fob is not a big deal, though. I just put it on a lanyard, and wear it around my neck so I can't easily lose it. I'm not about to do any spot welding or anything...I was just wondering what would be possible...even just in theory.
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The KIPASS fob is not a big deal, though. I just put it on a lanyard, and wear it around my neck so I can't easily lose it. I'm not about to do any spot welding or anything...I was just wondering what would be possible...even just in theory.
I have only one motorcycle jacket and, of course, can't ride without it. So the active fob just lives in a zippered pocket in the jacket. I rarely think about it, except on the rare occasions where I don't want to take the jacket with me.
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KIPASS is still not the most widely liked feature of such a great machine, Kawasaki would be wise to lose it in the near future IMHO.
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KIPASS is still not the most widely liked feature of such a great machine, Kawasaki would be wise to lose it in the near future IMHO.
Or modify it to be more useful. Unfortunately, most of the modifications necessary to do so would be expensive. But here they are:
* Include a *real* "credit card" RFID- a passive RFID chip in a credit card that can be put in your wallet. no physical key needed, since that would stay in the ignition. (This would actually cost very, very little)
* Rework the main ignition to not use a physical key at all. Press to start, like cars. One press for accessory, another for start.
* Unlock the gas tank in proximity or accessory mode so no key needed.
* Unlock the bags in proximity or accessory mode so no key is needed.
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- almost all the motorcycle thefts in these parts involve defeating the steering lock and then just overpowering the ignition switch. Result : the bike is ridden away.
- hence , for me , the KiPass is a wonderful thing to have.
- as per the others above , the fob is permanently zippered in my riding pants. So , the only time I will be without the fob whilst riding will be if I am riding without any pants on.
- if I am riding without any pants on , I have better things to worry about than the fob.
;D
.
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I have only one motorcycle jacket and, of course, can't ride without it. So the active fob just lives in a zippered pocket in the jacket. I rarely think about it, except on the rare occasions where I don't want to take the jacket with me.
+1
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I don't know Brian, I think now that all the original folks that disliked KiPass so intensely bought an FJR (chuckle) the 'happy ratio' on KiPass is way up.
Brian
KIPASS is still not the most widely liked feature of such a great machine, Kawasaki would be wise to lose it in the near future IMHO.
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The only problem I have developed concerning KiPass is...
forgetting to take my keys when riding one my other bikes. >:(
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I am alarmed at the number of KIPASS posts there have been in the past few days with no posts from Steve. This is not normal at all...
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Well, like I say, all this security is a solution to a problem I don 't have. So far, I have removed the solenoid from the glove box. Now I can open it anytime I want. I have made spare keys with radio knobs that live in the locks for the seat and for the panniers. I can now access the panniers, or remove the seat anytime I want. I haven't messed with the gashole yet.
It is curious that fuel tanks for bikes typically require a key, whereas the fuel fill for my wife's new Ford Focus not only does not have a lock, it does not even have a cap!! Ford has seen fit to do away with cap caps in the newer models. Wonder if bikes will ever do the same?
It is kinda funny that the Connie has an active fob, a passive fob, and five (count 'em, five) different keyholes, whereas many newer model autos nowadays have one fob, and maybe one keyhole. My 7-year-old Chevy has a fob, and the only keyhole opens the rear hatch. Wonder if we will sometime soon see a truly keyless bike?
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Most likely, yes. I believe the BMW 1600 is keyless or at least close to it.
Making the system truly keyless would be somewhat expensive and increase the level of complexity of the bike's wiring- there would have to be electric solenoids everywhere there is a mechanical lock now, and the saddlebags would have to have a weatherproof electrical connection to the bike.
KiPass was never intended to be a keyless system. It merely adds conveyance and even that debatable depending on the user's opinion. I like the system as I can simply walk up to the bike at any time and use any part of it I want including anything that is locked, without having to bring or remove a key (from the bike itself, not the ignition of course). I use the main stove knob key for all locks on the bike, and always carry a fob in a pants pocket so the bike just seems to magically recognize me. Barring human failure, there is only one part of KiPass that has proven vulnerable that I know of and there are simple methods to address that with certainty.
As far as the thought that it is not needed, I agree 100% but that same description could be, and has been, used to describe large groups of modern motorcycles such as electric fuel pumps, fuel injection, electronic ignition, etc. The thing they all have in common is that they improve some aspect of the motorcycle without being needed.
Brian
Well, like I say, all this security is a solution to a problem I don 't have. So far, I have removed the solenoid from the glove box. Now I can open it anytime I want. I have made spare keys with radio knobs that live in the locks for the seat and for the panniers. I can now access the panniers, or remove the seat anytime I want. I haven't messed with the gashole yet.
It is curious that fuel tanks for bikes typically require a key, whereas the fuel fill for my wife's new Ford Focus not only does not have a lock, it does not even have a cap!! Ford has seen fit to do away with cap caps in the newer models. Wonder if bikes will ever do the same?
It is kinda funny that the Connie has an active fob, a passive fob, and five (count 'em, five) different keyholes, whereas many newer model autos nowadays have one fob, and maybe one keyhole. My 7-year-old Chevy has a fob, and the only keyhole opens the rear hatch. Wonder if we will sometime soon see a truly keyless bike?
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Rode with my son yesterday and he was wearing Carhart coveralls. Twice we stopped for some food, he took the coveralls off, put his key in his pant pocket then forgot, put the coverall back on and his gloves back on only to remember his key was still in the pants pocket. This is the problem KIPASS is the solution to.
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Good point!
I'm frequently finding myself doing the same thing with my wallet.