Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: dras on June 09, 2011, 08:49:47 AM
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OK gang, this is kinda long, but please indulge me.
I know this was discussed at length on the old forum, but I gotta bring it up again. I have searched through everything I could find using the google cached sites, and although I came up with a lot of relevant info, I can't find what I need. Here's the scenario:
I bought a used '08 a few months back and it only came with one fob. I've been paranoid about only having the one fob since then. Got a used fob from another member on the old forum and also bought one of the 2010 "credit card" sized ones as an additional spare. Finally got the bike in to the shop yesterday to get it programmed to accept the new fobs. They were able to get it done for the RF portion of the large fob but said they couldn't do the small one as it is not compatible with the '08 model C14. The service guy told me they even called Kawasaki and they too said no way it would work.
So I get the bike home last night and tried the new large fob without the battery - using the RFID function by holding next to the ignition key. I got a Subkey IO error message. Tried it with my original fob and it works fine. So it looks like they didn't get the RFID portion of the large fob programmed either. The RF portion of the new large fob works fine. So at this point I am wondering if they really have much experience with this stuff.
There was a really nice step by step procedure that someone had posted on the old forum with screen shots of the KDS3 and everything, but I can't find it. I think it might have been posted by Locksmith or KawiMick. Was anybody wise enough to have printed this off or saved it somehow. I need to take the bike back to get the RFID portion of the large fob programmed, and would like to be able to show them that it really is possible to use the newer small fob as well on the '08 bikes. Thanks in advance!
Dave
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People have already had the credit card unit's programed to the 08!
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Hree's some info that may help.
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As others have chimed in, your dealer is wrong. The spare key fob will work with the 08/09.
Thing is, most Kawie dealers so seldom deal with Concours and especially the KiPass system, that the techs have little practical experience.
Like you, I bought a "used" (822 miles ;D) model and only got the one big fob. Also paranoid like you, I bought a spare key fob, went down to the local K shop and then watched them spend 3+ hours trying to program it. Didn't succeed and I left. They didn't charge me for the time because they honestly couldn't figure out why the damn thing wouldn't accept the program code, but told me they'd nag Mama Kawie until they figured it out.
Three weeks later I came back at their request and with 3 more spare key fobs I'd bought and they had 2 of the 3 programmed and the bike buttoned up in 15 minutes! The difference was that their tech guy had talked to the right tech guy at Kawie, learned the procedure AND that I had multiple spares. Turns out the first one I'd brought in was DOA, hence it couldn't be programmed. I got a refund on that one. This might also be what you encountered.
Try a different dealer and get a couple of additional credit card fobs and take them all with you.
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People have already had the credit card unit's programed to the 08!
I know, that's what I'm trying to convince my dealer of. He says the people at Kawasaki said no way it would work.
Thanks Conrad. That's not exactly what I was looking for, but I think it lays it out pretty clearly. I'll take the relevant pages with me when I go back.
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It has nothing to do with the size or year of the RFID card, just the RFID chip. It emits a code at a certain frequency at milliwatts so it has to be as near as possible to the receiver. All year C14s use the same Ki-Pass ECU and ignition housing. However, if the used FOB you purchsed does not have the separate unique id code (it was on the baggie the fob came in), they cannot program it to your bike.
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Yeah, they had the ID numbers for the fobs and got the RF portion of the large fob programmed in fine, it's just the RFID portion that doesn't work. I have a feeling they never got into the Immobilizer Key Registration (RFID) portion of the programming sequence and were trying to program the small fob into the RF portion as well and that's why it didn't work for them. I need them to get the RFID portion of the large fob working, and I'll get them to try the small one again too (on the RFID section).The info that Conrad posted might help them see the light.
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For what it's worth the programming for the RFID is in a separate screen. I have a 2010, so mine came with one large FOB one credit card. I added a second credit card fob to my bike. My local tech was nice enough to let me hover over his shoulder (he'd never programmed one before).
If you're in the immobilizer screen (not the FOB registration), you simply click the button to register a fob. The system will wait, looking for a new FOB near the ignition switch. The software will confirm each as it reads them. You're deleting all the RFID FOBs and reauthorizing each, so be sure to get your large FOB re-registered as well. The programming sequence took no more than 30 seconds to complete. Also no bags with numbers are required for the immoblizer screen. When you complete the programming you should have a count of 2 displayed within the software, the FOB registration screen will only show 1.
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Whoops - didn't realize you got a large one too. The immobizer screen should show a count of 3, the FOB registration screen should show 2 (it'll also give an available count too - I assume 3 since the bike came with two originally and you burned an extra slot on the new large fob).
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Alright guys, I'm good to go. Called the service guy at the dealer and explained the situation to him. He said by all means, bring it back in ASAP and they would make it right. Took it back in and they got me all sorted out. I took the info posted above by Conrad and kind of went over it with the service advisor and told him what needed to be done. Left to go run some errands with the wife, and he calls me about an hour later saying it was all ready to go. Everything now works as expected, so I have 2 of the large fobs fully functional in both RF and RFID modes, and a small fob in RFID mode too.
I can rest easier now knowing I have backups. Because I have the backups, I'll prolly never need them, but you know how that goes.
Thanks again to the forum. You guys rock! :hail: :hail:
Oh by the way, they only charged me 0.3 hrs the first time through, and nothing for today, so I got this done for $24.62. I'm thrilled! The dealer had a mis-step, but made a very nice recovery in my eyes. The service guy handled it first rate, and I'll gladly do business there again.
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Thanks for the update, I'm glad they made it right.
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Hi guys, i hope you can help me. I bought a 08 Concours on copart without fob-s. All ecu-s are in place as the ignition key in the middle of the top bridge. Is it possible the dealer can program new fob-s to the bike and it will start? Or i have to buy an iginition, key ecu and keys coded together?
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You are probably going to have a hard time.
First you will need to prove to Kawasaki that you are the rightful owner of the vehicle and that there is a legitimate reason why you have no fobs.
Then you will need to buy a new KiPass module, new matching ECU and new fobs.
You may be able to buy a matching set from a crashed C14.
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Hi guys, i hope you can help me. I bought a 08 Concours on copart without fob-s. All ecu-s are in place as the ignition key in the middle of the top bridge. Is it possible the dealer can program new fob-s to the bike and it will start? Or i have to buy an iginition, key ecu and keys coded together?
I hope that you got a great price on the bike because you're going to have to spend a bit of money to get it going. The dealer will not be able to do anything with the bike till you buy a new ECU with matching fobs. I'm not sure what all you will have to buy, BDF would be able to tell you that.
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can someone direct me to the right places to get the CC fob for a 08. My stealership here in Canada charge me 298$ for the FOB and 1,5 hours to program it. I said screw you.
I have a FOB key but lost the otherone and i looked at Ron Ayers but cannot find it
Thx
Derry
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can someone direct me to the right places to get the CC fob for a 08. My stealership here in Canada charge me 298$ for the FOB and 1,5 hours to program it. I said screw you.
I have a FOB key but lost the otherone and i looked at Ron Ayers but cannot find it
Thx
Derry
Ron Ayers shows the part number as 21175-0256 (for the 2010) (http://www.ronayers.com/ProductDetails/N/687/SKU/1273388 (http://www.ronayers.com/ProductDetails/N/687/SKU/1273388)) for $25.18 plus shipping.
Riders Choice Racing has it (http://www.riderschoiceracing.com/fiche_select.asp?mfg=Kawasaki&partnumber=21175-0256 (http://www.riderschoiceracing.com/fiche_select.asp?mfg=Kawasaki&partnumber=21175-0256)) for $27.38 with free shipping.
The dealer should be able to register it with your bike in a matter of minutes. The 1.5 hours is total B.S.
Hey Jim, should this part number go in one of the stickies, somewhere?
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Someone already posted great data on the part numbers for the fobs.
You might not want to get too uppity with your dealer because you will need them (or some dealer) to program the bike to recognize any fob that you purchase whether you purchase it from them or not. You know what they say- 'One fob the bike is programmed to recognize in the hand is worth two fobs you can't use in the bush. ;D The usual fee <seems> to be around 1/2 hour of labor for that service.
Not to nitpick but to clarify: the credit card fobs were only supplied with 2010 and later bikes, not 2008's or 2009's. You can use a CC fob with an earlier bike ('08 and '09) but it won't show up on the parts fiche if somebody tried to look it up that way; you will have to order the CC fob for the later bike.
Brian
can someone direct me to the right places to get the CC fob for a 08. My stealership here in Canada charge me 298$ for the FOB and 1,5 hours to program it. I said screw you.
I have a FOB key but lost the otherone and i looked at Ron Ayers but cannot find it
Thx
Derry
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I hope that you got a great price on the bike because you're going to have to spend a bit of money to get it going. The dealer will not be able to do anything with the bike till you buy a new ECU with matching fobs. I'm not sure what all you will have to buy, BDF would be able to tell you that.
Yes i bought it for a very good price. I found an ignition with key ecu and fob in matching set (need anything else?). It is from a 09 bike but i think it is egal. Got another possibilities. Can the dealer get it work with only an ecu and matching fobs, so i use my ignition switch?
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Yes i bought it for a very good price. I found an ignition with key ecu and fob in matching set (need anything else?). It is from a 09 bike but i think it is egal. Got another possibilities. Can the dealer get it work with only an ecu and matching fobs, so i use my ignition switch?
Egal? I don't think the ignition switch plays a part in that scenario as it's mechanical. Nothing changes with the 'keys'.
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The KiPass ECU? If you have a working KiPass ECU and a valid fob for that ECU, then a dealer should be able to code it to recognize the existing ignition switch and the existing main ECU that are already in the bike.
Brian
Yes i bought it for a very good price. I found an ignition with key ecu and fob in matching set (need anything else?). It is from a 09 bike but i think it is egal. Got another possibilities. Can the dealer get it work with only an ecu and matching fobs, so i use my ignition switch?
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The KiPass ECU? If you have a working KiPass ECU and a valid fob for that ECU, then a dealer should be able to code it to recognize the existing ignition switch and the existing main ECU that are already in the bike.
Brian
I found a key computer ecu (a box with one terminal) and a matching fob. So no ignition switch. It is from a 09 US bike (mine is 08 european). Do you think it will do the job?
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If it is the KiPass ECU that goes under the bike's seat, right in the center, then yes, it should work. You will need to have a dealer program it to recognize the ignition switch assembly and / or the ECU (the main or ignition ECU) before it will work though. There should be no problem using a different year KiPass ECU. I would suggest stopping by or calling your local dealer to make sure they have the KDS3 software required to program the KiPass ECU before taking the bike to them.
Your system may be slightly different than the systems we get here in the US as you seem to be in Europe. ?? Your bikes have oxygen sensors and a different KiPass ECU part number although they should work about the same.
Brian
I found a key computer ecu (a box with one terminal) and a matching fob. So no ignition switch. It is from a 09 US bike (mine is 08 european). Do you think it will do the job?
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If it is the KiPass ECU that goes under the bike's seat, right in the center, then yes, it should work. You will need to have a dealer program it to recognize the ignition switch assembly and / or the ECU (the main or ignition ECU) before it will work though. There should be no problem using a different year KiPass ECU. I would suggest stopping by or calling your local dealer to make sure they have the KDS3 software required to program the KiPass ECU before taking the bike to them.
Your system may be slightly different than the systems we get here in the US as you seem to be in Europe. ?? Your bikes have oxygen sensors and a different KiPass ECU part number although they should work about the same.
Brian
Yes its the kipass ecu. I asked the local dealer they failed to say the US version will work or not. Today i called the main service they told me the US version operates in a different frequency so it will NOT work on my EU bike. So i have to buy a european kipass ecu with fobs and the ignition switch too.
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As long as you get the US ECU and US fobs then the frequency shouldn't matter, because the fobs can talk to the ECU. It just wouldn't work if you used EU fobs and a US ECU.
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As long as you get the US ECU and US fobs then the frequency shouldn't matter, because the fobs can talk to the ECU. It just wouldn't work if you used EU fobs and a US ECU.
Should be right. Im a little confused because of the service's answer. Maybe they just want me to buy the new set from them. I can buy the US set for about 7 times cheaper than the new one locally so i would give it a try. The guy who sells the US set has the matching main ECU too (with 2 terminals). Maybe it makes the situation better and no coding needed?!
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When I was going through all of this trying to get new fobs programmed into the bike, the dealer told me the small 'credit card' fob could not be used with my '08 bike. They called Kawasaki and were told the same thing. I went back with the info I got (in my previous posts in this thread) and walked them through it. They were then able to get it done.
My point being - I just don't think some dealers have all that much experience with the KiPass system yet even though it's been on the market for some time now. Be persistent and good luck.
Dave
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Should be right. Im a little confused because of the service's answer. Maybe they just want me to buy the new set from them. I can buy the US set for about 7 times cheaper than the new one locally so i would give it a try. The guy who sells the US set has the matching main ECU too (with 2 terminals). Maybe it makes the situation better and no coding needed?!
I don't think that you can use a US ECU on an EU bike because the EU bikes have an O2 sensor and the US bikes do not.
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Yes, that is correct- the US version works on a different frequency then the European version and there may be a third type out there.... Australian maybe? Anyway, the fobs and the tire pressure sensors on a European version will NOT work with a US KiPass ECU. There is also the difference regarding the oxygen sensor on the two types (US types do not have an oxygen sensor, European bikes do have that sensor).
You should not need a new ignition switch assembly though. Why do you think you may need a new ignition switch assembly?
Brian
Yes its the kipass ecu. I asked the local dealer they failed to say the US version will work or not. Today i called the main service they told me the US version operates in a different frequency so it will NOT work on my EU bike. So i have to buy a european kipass ecu with fobs and the ignition switch too.
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Yes, that is correct- the US version works on a different frequency then the European version and there may be a third type out there.... Australian maybe? Anyway, the fobs and the tire pressure sensors on a European version will NOT work with a US KiPass ECU. There is also the difference regarding the oxygen sensor on the two types (US types do not have an oxygen sensor, European bikes do have that sensor).
You should not need a new ignition switch assembly though. Why do you think you may need a new ignition switch assembly?
Brian
Thanks for the info. So i have to look for a european kipass ecu with matching fobs or buy a new set. Sorry i dont really know how the kawasaki's system works, the dealer told me the bike needs another ignition swtich. Im dealing with used parts and i know the newer bikes in europe has immobiliser built in, but the ignition play no role so it was a bit unusual to me when he told me i have to change it too but i said ok i dont know the system.
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I have not changed the KiPass ECU on a C-14 either so it is certainly possible that you need both a new ECU and a new Ignition switch assembly together. If that is the case it is going to be expensive because the ign. assembly costs a bit more than the KiPass ECU.
I would suggest looking into this further. I still think you can just replace the KiPass ECU and a dealer could program it to work with the existing ignition switch assembly but these parts are too costly to 'buy and try' in my opinion. Maybe a call directly to Kawasaki (in your country) is a good idea?
Best of luck with this.
Brian
Thanks for the info. So i have to look for a european kipass ecu with matching fobs or buy a new set. Sorry i dont really know how the kawasaki's system works, the dealer told me the bike needs another ignition swtich. Im dealing with used parts and i know the newer bikes in europe has immobiliser built in, but the ignition play no role so it was a bit unusual to me when he told me i have to change it too but i said ok i dont know the system.