Author Topic: Math Question  (Read 2119 times)

Offline maxtog

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2017, 01:55:05 pm »
As far as the flash goes, my MPG improved by several miles a gallon.  I don't know about math..

The math is boring.  The riding is fun :)  Sure, increased MPG seems to be a fact with Steve's flash (I think the Guhl flash only helped maybe 2MPG, if that), and that is great!  But like Brian said, the cost pales in comparison to the fun factor.  Of course, knowing it helps to pay for itself doesn't hurt either..... especially if someone else is watching your wallet  :o

So... an investment in fun?
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Offline gPink

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2017, 04:02:10 pm »
Should be a fedgov subsidy for the flash since it improves mileage therefore reduces the carbon footprint.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2017, 04:24:10 pm »
Good idea- as soon as you get the 'new ECU' type- approved by DOT for use in the US, go and see if you can get a $0.11 / vehicle EPA discount.

 :rotflmao:

We cannot even alter our headlights w/out violating DOT standards, never mind control the engine.

Brian

Should be a fedgov subsidy for the flash since it improves mileage therefore reduces the carbon footprint.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2017, 08:33:04 pm »
Should be a fedgov subsidy for the flash since it improves mileage therefore reduces the carbon footprint.

Yeah, they will get to that right after banning motorcycles for being "gross polluters", "unsafe", and non-self-driving...
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2017, 08:34:44 pm »
We cannot even alter our headlights w/out violating DOT standards, never mind control the engine.

And yet the first thing that perhaps 90%+ of motorcycle owners do is immediately slap on an illegal/unapproved muffler to make the machine "louder" so it "performs" better.   ::)
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2017, 08:53:55 pm »
HIGH THREAD DRIFT CURRENTS AHEAD:

Interesting thing going on in some cities and towns where I live, regarding aftermarket exhausts and LEOs. A twist of the application of the law for a totally unintended consequence.

Exhausts, just like vehicle outside lighting, etc., are all type certified by DOT. The exhaust systems on motorcycles have a very small stamped number showing that they are type certified for, say a C-14 (but not a ZX 14: swapping one for the other is NOT legal). Now normally LEO's just do not bother with this at all. But after the last decade or two of motorcycles pounding the eardrums out of the mass population, some communities have decided they have had enough. And those cities and towns are well posted that if you violate exhaust rules, there will be harsh penalties (large fines). Now for the twist: LEOs stop excessively loud motorcycles of a type and brand we all know, then look at the exhaust for that type certification.... and of course, as an aftermarket system, it is not here. And then the truly painful ticket for a non- conforming exhaust. Note that they are never charged / fined / accused for excessive noise.

This system actually works and seems to be, so far, a workable loophole. Now, it is in fact the noise that causes the stop in the first place, and the actual desire to cause the fine but is not used as a reason because there are strict parameters for a noise test. But the same check is just not performed on any motorcycle that does not rattle anyone's windows on the way by. I guess we could call it 'selective enforcement' of a valid law.

Over the last few years this really proving to be effective; those two cylinder, miss- timed thumping bikes may still have a bit of a growl but nothing like it used to be.

It ain't quite right, and is not and never was the intent of the law but it does work and so far, has not been challenged as discriminatory. Probably all because those running at 100+ decibels know they are 'coloring outside the lines' in the first place. Plus it is hard to challenge the fact that excessive noise was probable cause for a stop but was not used in any way to issue a citation.

Brian
And yet the first thing that perhaps 90%+ of motorcycle owners do is immediately slap on an illegal/unapproved muffler to make the machine "louder" so it "performs" better.   ::)
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Offline Tree

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2017, 10:22:00 pm »
The wonderful Morphing Thread.  I swear, all I did was to go out and check the mail and come back to find we are now talking about exhausts/noise.  What happens when I go away for a short while to, say, chase a raccoon out of the garage?  Are we then gonna be talking about coconuts and the capabilities of African Vs. European swallows to carry them?  Which, come to think of it, would be fun.  I love a good Python goof.   :P
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2017, 02:41:39 am »
But after the last decade or two of motorcycles pounding the eardrums out of the mass population, some communities have decided they have had enough. And those cities and towns are well posted that if you violate exhaust rules, there will be harsh penalties (large fines).

I certainly wish they would do that here.  And throw in boom-box cars, too.

The wonderful Morphing Thread.  I swear, all I did was to go out and check the mail and come back to find we are now talking about exhausts/noise. 

You gotta keep up!!
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2017, 03:59:50 am »

Staying on the exhaust front , over here  a pre 1983 bike doesn't need any sort of mark on it nor is it subject to any decibel limit ,.


Post 1983 as lon as the exhaust is stamped with the relevant British STandard or equivalent International kite mark then you're good. Ther eis a 80db level for new bikes from 97 onwards  however for the annual MOT it must not be "excessivly noisy" (which is at the testers discretion)


Either way if the can has "Not for Road/Highway Use" stamped on it then it is not legal.


HIGH THREAD DRIFT CURRENTS AHEAD:

Interesting thing going on in some cities and towns where I live, regarding aftermarket exhausts and LEOs. A twist of the application of the law for a totally unintended consequence.

Exhausts, just like vehicle outside lighting, etc., are all type certified by DOT. The exhaust systems on motorcycles have a very small stamped number showing that they are type certified for, say a C-14 (but not a ZX 14: swapping one for the other is NOT legal). Now normally LEO's just do not bother with this at all. But after the last decade or two of motorcycles pounding the eardrums out of the mass population, some communities have decided they have had enough. And those cities and towns are well posted that if you violate exhaust rules, there will be harsh penalties (large fines). Now for the twist: LEOs stop excessively loud motorcycles of a type and brand we all know, then look at the exhaust for that type certification.... and of course, as an aftermarket system, it is not here. And then the truly painful ticket for a non- conforming exhaust. Note that they are never charged / fined / accused for excessive noise.

This system actually works and seems to be, so far, a workable loophole. Now, it is in fact the noise that causes the stop in the first place, and the actual desire to cause the fine but is not used as a reason because there are strict parameters for a noise test. But the same check is just not performed on any motorcycle that does not rattle anyone's windows on the way by. I guess we could call it 'selective enforcement' of a valid law.

Over the last few years this really proving to be effective; those two cylinder, miss- timed thumping bikes may still have a bit of a growl but nothing like it used to be.

It ain't quite right, and is not and never was the intent of the law but it does work and so far, has not been challenged as discriminatory. Probably all because those running at 100+ decibels know they are 'coloring outside the lines' in the first place. Plus it is hard to challenge the fact that excessive noise was probable cause for a stop but was not used in any way to issue a citation.

Brian
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Offline Classvino

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2017, 10:00:23 am »
I certainly wish they would do that here.  And throw in boom-box cars, too.

Since this topic seems to be wandering, I'll throw in a related (hopefully amusing) tale...

We had a townhouse at the end of a row of townhouses, and just over the fence was a convenience store that was turning into a hangout for 3 or 4 cars with LOUD stereos, and they liked to compare volumes between the vehicles, and apparently the best time of day to do that was just after the store closed - around midnight... 

To further exacerbate the problem, they did seem somewhat concerned about their hearing, and were wearing earplugs so as not to deafen themselves inside the vehicle, despite not worrying about the affects to anyone else's hearing (say in a 200 yard radius or so...) This just made it possible for them to turn up the volume way past the pain threshold inside (or even near) their vehicles.

One night I wandered over and pretended to admire the "noise" until close enough to be invited to lean into the window to "see" the equipment, at which time I pulled out a "canned-air horns" from a pocket. and shoved my arm into the car, where a couple "loud-stereo" owners were sitting, and pulled the trigger, emitting a >100  decibel blast.  The occupants had removed their earplugs to be able to speak with me without resorting to anything so crass as shouting...

It didn't go over well...  I was accused of attempting to deafen them, and castigated for showing no concern for their "aural" well-being.
(I was even threatened with physical violence - but being twice the size of any one of them, it was not a great worry of mine, and it was just bluster in any case. (Could have been worse, I guess, but I hadn't considered that... maybe stupid on my part...)

At this point, I mentioned that several of us in the development had been discussing possible solutions, and that this one had seemed at the time, to be the most pacifistic (and least likely to produce assault charges), and that to avoid any escalation, they might pick another location to demonstrate the abilities of their sound systems.

They did.

I still can't forget the looks on their faces as I held the horn inside their vehicle - it must've lasted 15 seconds or so before they overcame their shock and incredulity and pushed the horn away...  To quote the credit card commercial,  ...priceless...

Disclaimer : I won't normally suggest any sort of vigilante action, but with 2 toddlers in the house being woken up every other night for a couple weeks by these guys, and having the bylaw officer not showing up on any of several occasions, I was angry enough to implement this plan. Fortunately it worked.

Jamie
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2017, 11:10:12 am »
Yeah.... kids.

The biggest problem with things such as this example is that the anger builds and builds without those causing it to realize it (the anger) is even happening. Unfortunately, this all too often results in the very first meeting of the annoyed and the annoy-er(s) being very heated. No one's fault really (assuming the kids were just young, foolish and inconsiderate as most kids are, and not really trying to provoke outright hostility), just the result of people living close together and behaving as if they were not affecting anyone else.

Kinda' like a road rage incident without the road part.

Glad that worked out OK for you and 'them'. Often, it does not work out for either party; one suffers immediately while the other one suffers over a longer period of time because 'the wheels of justice turn slowly'.

Brian

Since this topic seems to be wandering, I'll throw in a related (hopefully amusing) tale...

<snip>

Disclaimer : I won't normally suggest any sort of vigilante action, but with 2 toddlers in the house being woken up every other night for a couple weeks by these guys, and having the bylaw officer not showing up on any of several occasions, I was angry enough to implement this plan. Fortunately it worked.

Jamie
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2017, 12:27:46 pm »
Well, seeing as we do not seem to be dealing with math much, let's move onto the nerd part.

The Coriolis effect is usually very difficult to detect, does not generally make itself obvious and we just about ignore it. But now and again, it shows up and when it does, is almost always is a big enough problem that it cannot be ignored.

Artillery always has to contend with the Coriolis effect, and the longer than range, the worse the effect. The worst case would be the longest range gun ever used, know as the Paris gun used to shell Paris (duh) by the Germans, from behind their lines, during WWI. The gun had a range of just over 80 miles (!!!) and the projectile had a flight time of three minutes. The Coriolis effect is really quite simple: as the Earth rotates, what appears to be a fixed target, such as Paris (it does not appear to be moving), actually is moving and travels a significant distance during that gun's projectiles' travel time. Calculations show that without compensating for this effect, the point of impact would be moved ~ one kilometer, well over 1/2 mile, from point of aim.

For all your nerdiness needs: http://www.vcsp.info/Chapter_8/Application_to_Long-Range_Artillery_-_Shelling_Paris_in_WW1/Shell_Trajectory_in_Atmosphere_on_a_Rotating_Earth.aspx

And that was not a big gun such as Schwerer Gustav was either.  :yikes:

Brian
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Offline Rhino

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2017, 01:55:37 pm »
Well, seeing as we do not seem to be dealing with math much, let's move onto the nerd part.

The Coriolis effect is usually very difficult to detect, does not generally make itself obvious and we just about ignore it. But now and again, it shows up and when it does, is almost always is a big enough problem that it cannot be ignored.

Artillery always has to contend with the Coriolis effect, and the longer than range, the worse the effect. The worst case would be the longest range gun ever used, know as the Paris gun used to shell Paris (duh) by the Germans, from behind their lines, during WWI. The gun had a range of just over 80 miles (!!!) and the projectile had a flight time of three minutes. The Coriolis effect is really quite simple: as the Earth rotates, what appears to be a fixed target, such as Paris (it does not appear to be moving), actually is moving and travels a significant distance during that gun's projectiles' travel time. Calculations show that without compensating for this effect, the point of impact would be moved ~ one kilometer, well over 1/2 mile, from point of aim.

For all your nerdiness needs: http://www.vcsp.info/Chapter_8/Application_to_Long-Range_Artillery_-_Shelling_Paris_in_WW1/Shell_Trajectory_in_Atmosphere_on_a_Rotating_Earth.aspx

And that was not a big gun such as Schwerer Gustav was either.  :yikes:

Brian


So we need to know if Tree was traveling along a longitudinal or on a latitude line to figure out if the corollas effect effected his mileage to more accurately determine the break even point with the flash  ;D

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Math Question
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2017, 02:43:35 pm »
Right. And maybe even more importantly, he may not have been where he thought he was when he filled up his fuel tank in the first place.

The plot thickens....

Brian

So we need to know if Tree was traveling along a longitudinal or on a latitude line to figure out if the corollas effect effected his mileage to more accurately determine the break even point with the flash  ;D
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Re: Math Question
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2017, 03:54:53 pm »
Well, seeing as we do not seem to be dealing with math much, let's move onto the nerd part.

The Coriolis effect is usually very difficult to detect, does not generally make itself obvious and we just about ignore it. But now and again, it shows up and when it does, is almost always is a big enough problem that it cannot be ignored.

Artillery always has to contend with the Coriolis effect, and the longer than range, the worse the effect. The worst case would be the longest range gun ever used, know as the Paris gun used to shell Paris (duh) by the Germans, from behind their lines, during WWI. The gun had a range of just over 80 miles (!!!) and the projectile had a flight time of three minutes. The Coriolis effect is really quite simple: as the Earth rotates, what appears to be a fixed target, such as Paris (it does not appear to be moving), actually is moving and travels a significant distance during that gun's projectiles' travel time. Calculations show that without compensating for this effect, the point of impact would be moved ~ one kilometer, well over 1/2 mile, from point of aim.

For all your nerdiness needs: http://www.vcsp.info/Chapter_8/Application_to_Long-Range_Artillery_-_Shelling_Paris_in_WW1/Shell_Trajectory_in_Atmosphere_on_a_Rotating_Earth.aspx

And that was not a big gun such as Schwerer Gustav was either.  :yikes:

Brian


So if I could hover in the air over a fixed spot for a few days, does that mean that spot will eventually move away from me?
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