Author Topic: Shaving.... like a man  (Read 29200 times)

Offline timsatx

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2013, 02:19:34 PM »

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2013, 02:30:07 PM »
No, it is like washing your skin with a washcloth and soap and if one needs lotion to sooth the area after being washed, one is washing too vigorously.

 ;D

"It puts the lotion on its skin or it gets the hose again."  Still makes me shiver a little....

Brian

Not being a smart aleck, but isn't that the same thing as removing the top layer of skin, technically speaking? Maybe not like a skin graft as what some might think about but removing the top layer of skin cells to me is the same thing. At any rate, make sure you use your lotion, you will reap benefits in later life.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2013, 02:32:58 PM »
Well, Rev Ryder over on the COG site has volunteered to have me shave his beard off at the COG 2014 national in TN. Of course he IS a minister and so may think that collar will protect the really dangerous parts.  Now, if I can only remember which side the carotid artery is on.... that one is a real squirter and makes a mess. The jugular is not nearly as bad, at least for the shaver...

 ;D

Brian

I'd take a pass if Brian ever offers to give you a free shave, a nice-close-free-shave...    :o
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2013, 02:35:05 PM »
There is a video of a gentleman shaving himself with.... a single edged ax. Really. No handle, just the ax head itself. Amazing to watch although the wuss didn't do "The fool's Pass" which is shaving the upper lip against the grain (moving the razor up toward the nose).

Brian

Thanks for that.  If I even had the smallest inkling to try something like that, it has totally been squashed. :yikes:

However, real men shave with swords..

Bunch of kindergartners... :P
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2013, 02:40:56 PM »
Those stones will do fine although the Chinese stone is a very slow finisher and does not leave the best finish. In today's modern times (I know- an old thing done in a modern way) a lot of use use artificial abrasives, which is what your Norton stones are made out of, in the form of lapping film. It is polyester film that is coated with abrasive- sort of like really, really, really nice sandpaper and it is water and solvent proof. I have Aluminum oxide grits down to 0.3 micron or in terms of sandpaper grit, 100,000 and diamond grits down to 200,000. Puts an edge on a blade like Gillette only dreams of. A sharp razor will 'tree top' which means it will cut body hair (easy boys!) on, say, the arm with the razor passing at least 1/2" above the skin. If the razor is really sharp, you cannot feel it tug when it slices the hair either, the hair just rains down from the razor. A singing razor will, well, sing as it meets each hair....

I can post photos of my honing setup or send them via e-mail if you are interested and everyone else is bored with this by now. :-)

Brian

I just pulled out my stones to see which ones they were. I have the Norton Combination waterstone 4000/8000


I also have a Chinese waterstone that is rated at 12K


The last piece I have right now is the sharpening stone holder


So I currently have a little over $100 in equipment. I really need to use it  ;)
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Offline timsatx

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2013, 06:25:46 AM »
Shoot man, post away.

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2013, 07:58:40 AM »
+1
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2013, 09:15:29 AM »
+3

Kinda interesting, although I'm an electric razor man myself. I let Braun sharpen them blades.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2013, 10:26:51 AM »
Ok, well first of all, honing a razor is not like sharpening a knife in that the bevel geometry is built into the razor. A typical American knife has a bevel angle of approx. 20 degrees, and when sharpened, the knife must be held with the spine off the stone or hone high enough to generate this angle. A straight razor is made differently; the width of the blade and the thickness of the spine combine to generate the correct bevel angle at the edge. To hone a razor, it is simply laid flat on the hone and pushed along. That is about the last thing that is simple but at least that one is a freebie. Please excuse this terrible photo of a razor's end with approximate lines drawn in where the razor will lay flat on a hone:



The first hone I use, also called a bevel setter because it is coarse enough to actually remove significant metal and shape the bevel, is a DMT diamond hone, 1200 grit. A very fast cutter. I use it wet but it that is not nessasary. Please note the filthy "honing towel" to the right of the hone- that is required apparently :-)  The hone is made of steel, diamond coated and is 3/8" X 3" X 8" long. This is not how I hold the razor to actually hone it but just wanted to show the basic relationship between razor and hone:



Once the edge is an true edge (i.e., bevels meeting in a true 'V' and having a true edge), the rest of the process is really just refining that edge. I use lapping film; the color indicates grit rating of the abrasive. Unlike what we are used to regarding normal sandpaper which measures the grit size by how many will fit into one inch (each grain of 100 grit sandpaper is 1/100th of an inch), most fine synthetic abrasives are rated in microns which measures the size of each piece of abrasive; one micron is one millionth of a meter, or about 39.4 millionths of an inch. The pink film is 3 micron (about 7,000 grit), the green is 1 micron (14,000 grit) and the white is 0.3 micron (about 100,000 grit.



I use a piece of glass as a lapping plate, which is 1/4" X 4" X 14". Water is used to hold the film onto the plate; both must be extremely clean because any debris, even a particle of dust, will chip the razor's edge (and it feels like a boulder when the razor 'skips' over it). A squeegee is used to tightly press the film in place and remove any air bubbles, again those would be lumps to the razor.



Some water, a razor and we're ready to have fun....



After a bunch of laps (one stroke up, razor flipped over and a stroke back) the film is changed to the next grit. A microscope or jeweler's loupe is used to see the edge being refined; when all the previous abrasive's scratch patterns are gone, the razor is finished on that particular grit.

In the olden' days, barbers used to hone to about 8,000 grit, strop the living pants out of a razor and use it. Today that is considered too coarse by most to shave with. 1 micron (14,000 grit) film, followed by a lot of stropping on linen and then leather (maybe 50 laps each) is adequate for a decent shave but finer is better. I like edges as sharp as they can be made and the way I get there is abrasive slurries spread on hard balsa paddles. The old standby in the lapping world has always been chromium oxide, a moderately fast cutter that leaves a very nice edge. It is usually found in 0.5 micron size, or about 60,000 grit rating. By the way, the biggest use for the compound chrome oxide is as a pigment for paints and the printing industry. I also use diamond abrasives carried and applied in ion free water. The two grits I use are 0.5 micron and 0.25 micron. Finally, my very finest abrasive slurry is 0.1 micron, about 200,000 grit, and is CBN, a man made material unlike diamond (CBN= Cubic Boron Nitride, nearly as hard as diamond and a very fast cutter).



The abrasives are applied to balsa and the razor is honed on the but backwards- the blade is moved spine- leading, unlike traditional honing which is always edge- leading (that helps prevent a foil edge from forming but the synthetics are so fine and fast they don't tend to create foil edges).



Very few laps needed or wanted at this point. Literally 5 laps on 0.5 diamond, followed by no more than 15 laps, and those are much more vertical than horizontal (dragging the razor from heel to toe more then going down the length of the paddle).

A new commercial razor blade will have an edge somewhere around 0.25 microns wide, a touch less if it is something like a Japanese made Feather blade. A very well honed and stropped razor will have a cutting edge around 0.1 micron wide, maybe a touch thinner, and that is a little less than 4 millionths of an inch.

You guys do understand this is a hobby and I am not doing all of this to get a shave, right?  ;D

Now if anyone is really interested, this is a link to another shaving hobby gentleman who happens to have access to a Scanning Electron Microscope (S.E.M.). Razor's edges cannot be seen optically but throw a stream of electrons at one, watch where they bounce and viola!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nanofab/page3/

Brian (busily growing facial hair so it can meet its just reward)



Shoot man, post away.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2013, 10:30:23 AM »
I've got one o' dem too and it works well. But I think you are missing the point- straight razor shaving saves money! You have to buy the razor, buy the occasional new head and buy electricity to drive the thing. I have accumulated a few razors, the resources to hone them, a few strops and I am all set forever! By my current calculations, I will be even in money spent sometime in late December.... of 2418 A.D.

 :-\

Brian

+3

Kinda interesting, although I'm an electric razor man myself. I let Braun sharpen them blades.
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2013, 03:53:57 PM »
I am doing "No Shave November".

I prefer to have a constant 5 o'clock shadow than a clean shaven face, but those razors are pretty cool.  8)
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Offline Rhino

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2013, 04:51:28 PM »
I've never been very good at getting an edge on a good knife. So unless I learn how to do it properly I doubt I would be very good with a razor. So my solution is Braun. Works fantastic.

Offline gPink

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2013, 05:21:11 PM »
Seems like going back to kickstarters and carburators.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2013, 05:43:19 PM »
Thanks. I really like them- they are all different and each one has its virtues. Just picked up this one- my first coated tang razor:



The tang is covered in inlays of Mother of Pearl and it was made by Torrey of Worcester, MA:



My oldest son is sporting that 3,4 day growth that is apparently in at the moment.

Brian

I am doing "No Shave November".

I prefer to have a constant 5 o'clock shadow than a clean shaven face, but those razors are pretty cool.  8)
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2013, 05:50:31 PM »
Well it certainly is the old way. And it takes longer than either an electric or a disposable razor and shaving cream in a can. And it absolutely takes more skill. All of those things would be negatives to anyone other than those who actually like shaving with a straight. As I said, it is much more a hobby and learning exercise than it is about shaving. I swear some of us would actually buy a jar of goo that made our beards grow faster so we could shave twice a day....  ;)

In a way, it is like riding motorcycles: few, if any, real advantages for any of us but we do it just to do it. And if we are lucky, we end up back where we started having used time and money along the way. But we all want to do it again as soon as possible.

Brian

Seems like going back to kickstarters and carburators.
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Offline timsatx

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2013, 06:17:54 AM »

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2013, 08:47:26 AM »
Nice razor- that will clean right up and hone perfectly. The blade edge looks great.

The Torrey Co. was just up the road from me and I know a little about the history of the company. The founder did very well in the razor business and the family was rather well off. The son took over the company just as safety razors were gaining significant market shave but he was not having any of that- he was convinced that disposable razors were just a flash in the pan and good old, reliable, non- disposable straight razor shaving would return as sense prevailed. Needless to say he ran the company all the way into the ground until passing away in 1963, still convinced that straights were on the brink of a verge of making the big comeback.

Good luck with that and enjoy the journey.

Brian

This is my little project that I bought:

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/300999042650?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


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Offline timsatx

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2013, 10:16:32 AM »
I figure not bad for $19. Should get it by Thur. Looking at one pic I may have a slight issue with one scale but it shouldn't be too bad.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2013, 11:13:19 AM »
I think so too- as long as the scales work you will be fine. That is more of a tool than a beautiful razor but that is a good thing IMO, especially if you are going to learn to hone yourself- in the beginning most of us take off too much metal and that would be a shame on a classic Filarmonica for example. A little hone wear on that Torrey is not a big deal.

Again, this is a motorcycle forum so we are probably boring others to tears but I can assist you in getting started with honing if you want. There are a lot of resources on the 'Net that will help too, just watch out for the black magic and hocus pocus that a lot of people seem to like regarding honing razors.... Anyway, feel free to e-mail me if you want to.

Brian

I figure not bad for $19. Should get it by Thur. Looking at one pic I may have a slight issue with one scale but it shouldn't be too bad.
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Re: Shaving.... like a man
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2013, 11:29:22 AM »
Boring?  Nope, that is a town in Oregon!!  Got me looking, I am looking at a restoration type project, I have always liked sharpening knives and getting a keen edge, but the edge you describe is far beyond what I have done.  The challenge is on!!  Find, fix, and use.  Not interested in scale repair, but a blade that isn't hopeless is what I am looking at.  I already have the glass plate, paper, and assorted slurries for the hone process (planer blades work best when sharp).