Turbocharged C14

[SpazOnaConcours]

Hey there ya'll.

New forum member... migrated over here after the other forum crashed (I posted this up on the COG forum as well, but I figured why not here?). Just about that time I started a 'home-made' turbo project on my new (2009) C14. Just finished it up last week and got back to southern AZ yesterday after flogging it just about senseless in the Monterey area while there for the GP.   

Anyone interested in the details? It was truly a sad thing to lose all that great info that Fretka (Bruce) posted on the other forum, but I wouldn't mind putting it all down again for posterity.... that is, if ya'll want to hear it?

Cheers

[Jeremy Mitchell]

Info on a turbo install, why would we want that?   

Post it up, I always enjoy seeing how much power I could get out of my C14 if my money tree starts to grow.

[Gearhead82]

Yes!  Post away!  I saw your thread on COG yesterday and almost registered on that forum just for that thread in particular.

I saw on COG that you basically built your own kit, but you also mentioned that it would be much easier to just buy a pre-fab ZX-14 kit and tweak it a little to work with the C14.  In your research, do you know what exactly needs to be tweaked to get a ZX kit to fit the C14?

Also, I noticed you said you are running 7psi.  Are you able to do this on pump gas?  Did you have to upgrade your fuel pump or injectors?

[Gearhead82]

I'd also love to see pics if you have any.  I'm curious as to what you did with the exhaust!  I've been dreaming about turbo-ing my C-14 since I got it.  It's probably a year or two down the road, but it's never too early to start planning. 

[SpazOnaConcours]

I figured ya'll would be a little more into it than the COG guys, heheh.

7psi is easy, I'm certain that I could run 8-9psi @ sea level and be just fine on 91 octane, though I'd map it a little more on the rich side to be safe. I am turning it up to 8ish as soon as I tear it down in the next week. I did have David @ Cycle Logic modify my fuel pump assembly (remove the regulator mainly) and put a 255 Walbaro pump in... that is paired with his adjustable rising rate regulator and a return system. Works like a dream and is awesome-easy to adjust. Stock injectors handle it with room to grow. All of his kit parts are very nice, though I am going to change a few things to suit my tastes... more on that later. The entire install is not overly difficult, but it is tedious and detail oriented. The tunning is more difficult, but not impossible. I'm good with fuel injection and computers, so it's actualy easy an fun for me. Carbs are for drag cars.

As far as tweaking a kit to work, that's what Fretka did, and almost nothing difficult needs to be changed if you use the Cycle Logic kit. The inner left hand plastic insert near the relay blocks has to be modified to let the charge pipe go through, and a small indent needs to be ground down on the front of the engine case if you use Cycle Logic's kit (it's a casting jig hole... it has no effect on structure). With my fabbed stuff that wasn't necessary, but it's squeeeeeezed in there tight. Putting a wideband AFR system on it is a MUST in my book, along with a fuel pressure gauge, so small amounts of modifying had to happen for that too.
Picutes to follow soon. I still haven't applied a solution to putting a filter in front of the turbo and re-ducting the air intake scoops in the front, but that IS coming along soon. Promise.

I'll write up a step-by-step tonight and post it in pieces for ya'll. I haven't done the "finishing" work on my manifold to make it really pretty, so I'll do that before I post pictures; I was under a really tight deadline to make it to Laguna. I suffer from fabricator vanity... please forgive me the trespass.

[stevewfl]

I figured ya'll would be a little more into it than the COG guys, heheh.

7psi is easy, I'm certain that I could run 8-9psi @ sea level and be just fine on 91 octane, though I'd map it a little more on the rich side to be safe. I am turning it up to 8ish as soon as I tear it down in the next week. I did have David @ Cycle Logic modify my fuel pump assembly (remove the regulator mainly) and put a 255 Walbaro pump in... that is paired with his adjustable rising rate regulator and a return system. Works like a dream and is awesome-easy to adjust. Stock injectors handle it with room to grow. All of his kit parts are very nice, though I am going to change a few things to suit my tastes... more on that later. The entire install is not overly difficult, but it is tedious and detail oriented. The tunning is more difficult, but not impossible. I'm good with fuel injection and computers, so it's actualy easy an fun for me. Carbs are for drag cars.

As far as tweaking a kit to work, that's what Fretka did, and almost nothing difficult needs to be changed if you use the Cycle Logic kit. The inner left hand plastic insert near the relay blocks has to be modified to let the charge pipe go through, and a small indent needs to be ground down on the front of the engine case if you use Cycle Logic's kit (it's a casting jig hole... it has no effect on structure). With my fabbed stuff that wasn't necessary, but it's squeeeeeezed in there tight. Putting a wideband AFR system on it is a MUST in my book, along with a fuel pressure gauge, so small amounts of modifying had to happen for that too.
Picutes to follow soon. I still haven't applied a solution to putting a filter in front of the turbo and re-ducting the air intake scoops in the front, but that IS coming along soon. Promise.

I'll write up a step-by-step tonight and post it in pieces for ya'll. I haven't done the "finishing" work on my manifold to make it really pretty, so I'll do that before I post pictures; I was under a really tight deadline to make it to Laguna. I suffer from fabricator vanity... please forgive me the trespass.

easy now, some of us are COG members too

[SpazOnaConcours]

....hehe. It wasn't a dig at all, I promise. The reception to the idea over there was just lukewarm at best. I even put in a post about writing a how-to for a step byt step DIY kit and didn't get a reply. It's understandable though... that's more of an Owners' Group forum, and this looks/seems more like a social/fanatical. You can belong to both of course, but it just feels like more of an appropriate subject over here.

Or I could be nuts. I HAVE hit my head. 

[Jeremy Mitchell]

....hehe. It wasn't a dig at all, I promise. The reception to the idea over there was just lukewarm at best. I even put in a post about writing a how-to for a step byt step DIY kit and didn't get a reply. It's understandable though... that's more of an Owners' Group forum, and this looks/seems more like a social/fanatical. You can belong to both of course, but it just feels like more of an appropriate subject over here.

Or I could be nuts. I HAVE hit my head. 

I could be wrong, but didn't Fretka have a turbo how-to published in the COG magazine this past winter?  Even if it was, I would love to see yours since you fabbed most of it yourself.

[gonzosc1]

ok, I'll be the monkey with a wrench here...
in the end what did this cost you?

[SpazOnaConcours]

Metal: 'Bout $100 (Quality stainless pipe and flanges)
Turbo: 'Little less than $1k (it's a very nice new garrett turbo... you could use a cheap/used one @500-ish bucks if you wanted to go that route)
Cycle Logic pump & service: $160-ish
Cycle logic Kit parts: 'bout $600-ish (oil return system, block off plates, Regulator and fittings, check valves, extra oil hose
Clutch springs: Free (though they'd be less than 30 bucks shipped if you bought stock ZX10R springs from Barrnett's)
Misc Lines, fittings, and Fuel pressure gauge: Bout 50 bucks
Fabricating: Priceless
-----------sub: 2350ish with shipping.


Items that don't come in a kit that I bought:

PCV: 'bout 250 (whatever you get yours for... prices vary)
Autotune + LCD display: $425
Fabricating/wiring and tunning: Priceless again... but less so.
-----------sub: 675ish with shipping

.....sooooo after I get it -perfect- with the air filter and whatnot, it'll be at about 3K. A kit usually runs you around 4-5K depending on who makes it, and those don't come with fuel pressure gauges, and Power commander items, or an air filter for the turbo system that you have to hack a hole in the fairing to fit (and sometimes exhaust you have to dump through the fairing too...). Install labor rates will vary. I'll do install work for beer for almost anyone I like, but there are 10-16 hours of proffessional labor involved to get it OEM quality... along with incidental gaskets or other stuff you might break/need. Having someone make you a manifold will run from $700-to-1K bucks, and the quality and fit can be a gamble if you are not careful. My set-up and some others will work with stock exhaust or slip ons; most won't. I bought almost everything one paycheck at a time... piece by piece, over the course of a few months.

And yes, Fretka (Bruce) has the other turbo concours... his was based almost entirely from the Cycle Logic kit, with his own little genius solutions when needed (shout out to Fretka: very helpful fellow who shared a few idea's with me and his base tuning map. I'd do the same for anyone else if they ask). I don't know how in-depth the article was/is, 'cause I haven't been able to find it posted anywhere yet.

[ZG]

  

[C1xRider]

Just what you need, more farkling. 

[ZG]

Just what you need, more farkling. 

  

[SpazOnaConcours]

[slightly off topic]

My buddy and I went out to our, *ahem* closed course straight line speed test area to try out the current set-up. He was riding an '07 ZX10R, PC3 and a full Ti-force system. He's a pretty decent rider (shifts quick). It's a smidge faster than my '06 10R, and that bike trapped 142+mph (a 10.2 second run at stock wheelbase/ride height) at SIR raceway with me on it... we are similar weight (around 185ish suited up). SIR raceway is anywhere from 3-6 thousand feet above sea level in altitude density depending on the day. Bike is damn fast... I've never run a brand new BMW or '11 ZX10R against it (or turbo/nitrous bike), but nothing else has ever outrun it in a straight line. Not a boast, just a fact.

The C14 had both hard bags on, filled with a weeks worth of dirty work clothes, my sidearm, a 17inch screen laptop, a few hand tools, a couple books, a big can of plastic polish, and a full pound of spare zip-ties. I felt the need to even the odds a bit, so I left the windshield down.  7psi boost showing on the gauge with AFR's around 11.2-11.5 at peak. The 'flies are still in, and I'm almost certain now that it is hurting performance in some spots. More on that later.

All runs were done from 60-80 mph. Any lower put the 10R off the cam, and that would have been like clubbing baby seals. Up at 5000'+ of elevation, hot, and humid as hell, both bikes feel very week off the cam/boost compared to sea level; it's a huge difference.

*Drum roll....*


Beat down. Plain and simple. I'd give him the hit before I'd pin in, but every time it would immediately reel in the bike length or so he had and put about one length on every 10mph or so. If I would drag the rear brake a bit and left with some boost on tap it would add an extra 3 or so lengths. And it just kept pulling. And pulling. This is a mile above sea level still! One run saw it charge up to the end of 5th gear (170ish mph) before I had to shut it down. Had to, because the whole bike started to pick up an oscillation around 140-ish that gets worse and worse as speed picks up. Part of it might have been cross winds, part of it I know is me jerking on the throttle a little bit on shifts (thereby introducing the weave)... but I couldn't get it to go away. Maybe fixing the air intake routing will help... I'm sure firming up the suspension will help.... but I might resort to a steering damper if I have to. It's damn unnerving. But I'll fix it I'm pretty certain. Might be a simple as a suspension set-up fix.

Regardless, it's just amazing. I believe Bruce when he said that his will kick sand in the face of his BMW S1000R. Another lb or so of boost and the flies out and it should be amazing. More amazing. Did I mention it still handles great and is super smooth? Bwwwahahahaha!! I can't believe how much fun this bike is now!

[/slightly off topic]

[VirginiaJim]

....hehe. It wasn't a dig at all, I promise. The reception to the idea over there was just lukewarm at best. I even put in a post about writing a how-to for a step byt step DIY kit and didn't get a reply. It's understandable though... that's more of an Owners' Group forum, and this looks/seems more like a social/fanatical. You can belong to both of course, but it just feels like more of an appropriate subject over here.

Or I could be nuts. I HAVE hit my head. 

We like nutty people over here....  If you want to do the write up, assuming you are doing the upgrade, we can give it a special place in our Wiki area.  I'm sure you'll have more than a lukewarm reception over here.

In fact, I give you a big Saluuuuuuuuute!

[Gearhead82]

This thread has already become my favorite thread, on any forum, ever.  I'm looking forward to the write up and pics when you get to it! 

[SpazOnaConcours]

Ok, my pleasure... I like stories. How would ya'll like the format? A build log? A 'How-to/DIY' play by play? More of a story of how it went for me and the little adventures in between? I could narrate different versions/threads if you want a technical reference piece and/or more of a human POV write-up. It's just too wordy to do both in the same thread IMO.

Thoughts?

[VirginiaJim]

Lots of pictures if you can and in a narrative how-to type format would be grand...  Add the POV, adventures and the like.   We may have to split it as we have a limit on how much can go in a post unfortunately.  I would like to see it here....

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?board=31.0  (Engine and Controls)

as a separate thread....

[Rick Hall]

Ok, my pleasure... I like stories. How would ya'll like the format? A build log? A 'How-to/DIY' play by play? More of a story of how it went for me and the little advnetures in between? I could narrate different versions/threads if you want a technical reference piece and/or more of a human POV write-up. It's just too wordy to do both in the same thread IMO.

Thoughts?

PDF, Word, or via posts in a thread. One of the Mod's can move/edit with your blessing. If you need extra space to store pix (or PDF/Word/... files), ask one of the Mod's. If you attach them to a post, you're limited to four per post.

Rick

[Rhino]

YEEEE HAAWWW! I'm going to live vicariously through this thread