Issues bleeding the clutch

[rcannon409]

I think a lot of you guys do like I do and do at least some maintenance on your motorcycles and your cars, as well.

The leaking bleeders are what killed me with the hand type Mity-Vac.  I would pump it, but the vacuum was soon equalized from the leaking threaded connections. At that point, one had to pump like mad (wow, this is sounding bad), then the handle falls off.....find handle, but now its cross pin is missing.

It costing 90 or 122 is no big deal.  The shop quoted "about 300.00" to look through () my brake system and bleed it, if needed.

I know I did not need the "look through" as its a Japanese car.  The calipers are very much motorcycle like and very low effort to rebuild them, or replace the pads.

[Cold Streak]

One other piece of free advise (maybe worth exactly what you paid for it): when you are all done fully cleaning and bleeding the hydraulics on each part of the C-14..... do it two more times.

You've mentioned this advice a few times and it occurs to me I don't really know what you mean by it.  Are you saying to completely exchange all the fluid 2 more times?  If so, how do you know when the fluid is exchanged again since it's now clean and there is no visual indicator.

[Rubber_Snake]

You've mentioned this advice a few times and it occurs to me I don't really know what you mean by it.  Are you saying to completely exchange all the fluid 2 more times?  If so, how do you know when the fluid is exchanged again since it's now clean and there is no visual indicator.

Easy, just note the volume it took from the first flush.

[B.D.F.]

Yes, I am saying to push a lot more fluid through the system than you think is required.

What I do is to remove all the fluid directly from the reservoirs (no need to draw all that stuff through the system), then re-fill with fresh, clean fluid. Once the fluid at the slave cylinder (brake caliper or slave clutch cylinder) is perfectly clear, rather than stop and think you are done, flush the system for two more full reservoirs of fresh fluid. This may seem like a waste but after having to go back and re-bleed a system for a second time on several different bikes to remove the last of that spongy feeling, no doubt due to minute air bubbles in the system, now I just bleed the system two more times after I am done bleeding it completely. By 'two more times', I mean two reservoirs full of fluid from the fill line down to <almost> empty.  This seems to work well, and I have not had to re- bleed a single bike since I have started this.

It usually takes me a full pint of brake fluid to clean and purge all three sets of hydraulics on a C-14.

Brian

You've mentioned this advice a few times and it occurs to me I don't really know what you mean by it.  Are you saying to completely exchange all the fluid 2 more times?  If so, how do you know when the fluid is exchanged again since it's now clean and there is no visual indicator.

[rcannon409]

I do the same thing.   If i'm replacing fluid, lets make sure i've done all I can to replace 100% of it.....probably impossible to really replace it all, but an honest effort to do so.

By the time the first flush is complete, the mess is already made, and I have all my painted surfaces covered with aluminum foil.  I learned, the hard way, to cover way more of the painted surfaces than necessary.  Aluminum foil is more durable than saran wrap, so I use that. 

Same idea with the fresh fluid.  Im sure its very clean , after the first pass, but why not spend an extra 5.00, in fluid, and be sure?

[B.D.F.]

Yeah, I wrap the area around the reservoir with lots of paper towels, and then cover the tank, dash and windshield with old bath towels. Same exact idea though: first be careful not to spill or spatter ANY of that stuff around. And once you are sure you will not do that, cover all the places the spatter may reach..... a belt and suspenders but hey, at least your pants won't fall down.... so much, right?

Brian

I do the same thing.   If i'm replacing fluid, lets make sure i've done all I can to replace 100% of it.....probably impossible to really replace it all, but an honest effort to do so.

By the time the first flush is complete, the mess is already made, and I have all my painted surfaces covered with aluminum foil.  I learned, the hard way, to cover way more of the painted surfaces than necessary.  Aluminum foil is more durable than saran wrap, so I use that. 

Same idea with the fresh fluid.  Im sure its very clean , after the first pass, but why not spend an extra 5.00, in fluid, and be sure?

[AZ-ZG]

Why is the clutch system such a bitch?

Have the HF pneumatic bleeder.

Brakes done a couple times, no worries.

Clutch side done once (year ago-ish), the second time (this past summer) required a tow to my Tech (thanks AMA) and High Performance Cycles Lake City, FL!, absolutely no lever!  123,172 miles?

He got it good then at 126,000 miles the fuel pump gave up and clutch lever action was wonky, again.

Bled the system, again, while waiting for the fuel pump and all is good for 3,000+ miles now.

[B.D.F.]

It is not..... with a power bleeding system such as you have. It is without one. All explained in great detail earlier in this thread.

Brian

Why is the clutch system such a bitch?

Have the HF pneumatic bleeder.

Brakes done a couple times, no worries.

Clutch side done once (year ago-ish), the second time (this past summer) required a tow to my Tech (thanks AMA) and High Performance Cycles Lake City, FL!, absolutely no lever!  123,172 miles?

He got it good then at 126,000 miles the fuel pump gave up and clutch lever action was wonky, again.

Bled the system, again, while waiting for the fuel pump and all is good for 3,000+ miles now.

[Eupher]

FWIW, I've used the power bleeder approach and took diligent care in following the instructions already given upthread. Worked like a champ in front and rear brakes, and the clutch. I wound up using about three pints of brake fluid - DOT 4, if I remember correctly.

My bike had sat in a dealer showroom for 3 years before I bought it, and then I rode the bike another 18 months before changing the brake and clutch fluids, along with the coolant. Definitely glad I did all that, because it was due. The clutch fluid was especially funky and while I didn't have any trouble with it, it was just a matter of time.

There is such a small volume of fluid in the system(s) that I think that fact alone makes the hydraulic system prone to problems if the fluid is aged.

[Cold Streak]

I've had a lot of problems with my clutch last year on my 2008 as I wrote earlier in the thread.  I had the problem with the lever going completely away while just riding down the road, after the bike is hot.  I change my clutch and brake fluids every other year and I had changed them last winter.  I never let the level get too low in the master cylinder while doing it.  I started out the year riding in AR and after three days  I noticed my clutch lever was going away.  Got the bike home and had the no lever, locked in gear syndrome occur.  Bled it manually and it would be fine for a short time, then the problem reoccurred.  Went to the local Kawi dealer and the tech there said the only cure is to replace the clutch line, so I did that.  I also rebuilt the master cylinder because I already had it apart.  Then, taking the advice of BDF I bought the super duper bleed device that I can use with my air compressor.  All of this lasted all summer and I've only ridden it a couple of times now that I think I have it fixed.  It probably wouldn't have taken all summer if I didn't have another bike to ride and part way through the ordeal the left cooling fan went out so I had to replace it.  The bike has about 74k miles on it.

Anyway, for someone who is having the issues and can't seem to bleed the problem away consider a new clutch line.  Galfer has both clutch and brake SST lines for the bike and they are cheaper than the stock Kawi rubber products. I'm debating whether I should buy a set of those and throw them on while waiting for riding weather.

Good luck all.  Thanks for the info and answers BDF.

http://galferusa.com/product-category/kawasaki/2008/cruiser/zg-1400-concours

[B.D.F.]

Glad to help if and when I can, and glad you found something useful.

That is the very first problem I notice on the C-14's clutch, the engagement point changes between hot and cold (even in summer, I mean the engine being 'cold' or up to temperature). One time I could not eliminate the issue and had the slave cylinder replaced under warranty. Otherwise, the few other times it has happened, a power- bleeding has taken care of it. The clutch system on this bike seems very sensitive to even a tiny amount of air in the system.

The part that I find surprising is how quickly the clutch gets so 'bad' and then that a simple but thorough bleeding fixes it. It certainly feels like something is or has failed and it is past time for some parts changing but again, just a complete bleed brings it back to 100%. Almost mystical.... and I do not believe in that stuff. :-)

Brian

I've had a lot of problems with my clutch last year on my 2008 as I wrote earlier in the thread.  I had the problem with the lever going completely away while just riding down the road, after the bike is hot.  I change my clutch and brake fluids every other year and I had changed them last winter.  I never let the level get too low in the master cylinder while doing it.  I started out the year riding in AR and after three days  I noticed my clutch lever was going away.  Got the bike home and had the no lever, locked in gear syndrome occur.  Bled it manually and it would be fine for a short time, then the problem reoccurred.  Went to the local Kawi dealer and the tech there said the only cure is to replace the clutch line, so I did that.  I also rebuilt the master cylinder because I already had it apart.  Then, taking the advice of BDF I bought the super duper bleed device that I can use with my air compressor.  All of this lasted all summer and I've only ridden it a couple of times now that I think I have it fixed.  It probably wouldn't have taken all summer if I didn't have another bike to ride and part way through the ordeal the left cooling fan went out so I had to replace it.  The bike has about 74k miles on it.

Anyway, for someone who is having the issues and can't seem to bleed the problem away consider a new clutch line.  Galfer has both clutch and brake SST lines for the bike and they are cheaper than the stock Kawi rubber products. I'm debating whether I should buy a set of those and throw them on while waiting for riding weather.

Good luck all.  Thanks for the info and answers BDF.

http://galferusa.com/product-category/kawasaki/2008/cruiser/zg-1400-concours

[jerdurr]

When the master, calipers and brake line were changed on my other bike, bleeding them out was very difficult. Someone on another forum recommended that I hook small hoses up to the bleeders and raise them up to an elevated bucket. By doing this, I was able to work the micro bubbles out and not have to worry about opening/closing the bleeder 10,000 times. It worked like a charm.

Nicole i love your vmax! i had one just like it, miss it so much! toying w the idea of buying another one. That bike has a soul.

[Conrad]

Nicole i love your vmax! i had one just like it, miss it so much! toying w the idea of buying another one. That bike has a soul.

Nicole's post is over three years old and she is no longer a member here.

[lather]

The truth is sometimes harsh...

[gPink]

 

[just gone]

Getting away from the recent publication discussion (and soon to be deleted) ...repeating pinkie's query....

What's harsh?

..and seeking some insight to this answer..

The truth is sometimes harsh...

I want to ask "which truth?", but that may be too close to the soon to be deleted discussion, so I'll provide some options.

A. Conrad's reply, though accurate, seemed an overly harsh response to issue to a newbie poster.
B. Nicole's decision to leave this forum was harsh.
C. How the clutch responds when it needs bleeding seems harsh.
D. Something else that involves truth and harshness. 

[Cold Streak]

No more comments on the book please.   These posts will mysteriously disappear shortly.

Thank you.

[B.D.F.]

Probably someone 'top posted'.       But yeah, I did not get that 'harsh' reference either. Of course we are getting pretty old Marty, I know I find myself shaking my head more and more often reading the news anyway.

Brian

Getting away from the recent publication discussion (and soon to be deleted) ...repeating pinkie's query....
..and seeking some insight to this answer..

I want to ask "which truth?", but that may be too close to the soon to be deleted discussion, so I'll provide some options.

A. Conrad's reply, though accurate, seemed an overly harsh response to issue to a newbie poster.
B. Nicole's decision to leave this forum was harsh.
C. How the clutch responds when it needs bleeding seems harsh.
D. Something else that involves truth and harshness.

[lather]

A and B.

[lather]

Ive always used my MotioPro bleeder and clutch response has alwaus been sweet.