Author Topic: ECU Reflash.  (Read 18228 times)

Offline maxtog

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2018, 05:25:28 AM »
 :banghead:
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline rcannon409

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2018, 07:23:46 AM »
Notice what Ivan is getting from the Concours 14. His gains are larger than anyone else's for the C14.

 http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ZG1400.htm



Offline sanmo

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2018, 07:39:59 AM »
dang! max', you had me at DYNAMIC compression.

So folks you heard it here first, max' says the ZX14 is the detuned & dethroned bike!  :rotflmao: :stirpot:

FIFY  :)
2008 Silverdammit C14

Offline just gone

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2018, 11:59:07 AM »
Notice what Ivan is getting from the Concours 14. His gains are larger than anyone else's for the C14.

 http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ZG1400.htm


rcannon409, I doubt you'll get the flak on this forum for hawking Ivan's services as you did on the other one,...but....let's stay with the program here please. We are picking on max' (in a friendly way) so please use the proper vocabulary. e.g. "Ivan un-detunes the c14 better than anyone"; "Ivan removes the detuning that Kawasaki put into the c14" or words to that effect. OK?  ;D

...also..extra points if you can work in "Ivan's flash automatically turns on the high beam during the day for safer riding" (of course you may get some flak from Ivan for that one, but it might be worth it).


Offline connie_rider

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2018, 12:20:46 PM »
Max sed; One only has to stop focusing on PEAK HP and look at the lower end torque curve.

Max, your mostly wasting your breath. I've been saying this for years and mostly,, they still talk about peak HP.
I guess this means, your dethroned ??

Ride safe, Ted

« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 03:52:59 PM by connie_rider »

Offline maxtog

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2018, 01:18:36 PM »
Max, your mostly wasting your breath. I've been saying this for years

I seem to gravitate toward lost causes :)
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2018, 01:27:54 PM »
Sometimes the lost causes are the most important causes of all.....

Long Live KiPass!

:-)

Brian

I seem to gravitate toward lost causes :)
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline rcannon409

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2018, 07:46:36 AM »
Marty, the de-tuning idea is right on.   With that in mind, do you suppose there is a full power version in Kawasakis test lab?

Kawasaki de-tuned their ninja 1000 in a very similar manner, right down to the exhaust header pipes being to small.

With regards to the rest.I'll try....

...I know Ivans ecu flash will not turn on the high beam lights.  That would be silly.  However, with his flash you wont even need the lights on your bike. Many riders removed them.  Would have liked to do the same on my car. Especially after Auto Zone charged me 100.00, per bulb, for my HID lamps.....but thats not the point.

But, theres no possible way to make it backfire, or shoot flames.  It just does not do that.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 08:17:44 AM by rcannon409 »

Offline just gone

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2018, 11:48:17 AM »
I'm not sure you were catching my drift here. But none the less I'll go with it....ah so what you're saying here...
The flames and the glowing are often times enough to light up a 4 lane roadway.

....is that despite what Ivan's website implies, that even with the fuel cut elimination that it still spouts flames and pops?  :stirpot: (sometimes I have to pick on someone new and give max' a well deserved rest)

Well no flames coming out the front door, that's a good sign.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2018, 01:58:13 PM »
Nah, let's pick on Max. (He err "replies" when ya abuse him).  <grin>

 {And if your pickin' on him, your NOT pickin' on me!}

Ride safe, Ted

Offline tbanzer

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2018, 02:05:07 PM »
Take a look at zx14 vs c14 dyno graph. zx14 produces way more low end torque than the so called low end torque c14 Queen that they denutted .

Offline maxtog

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2018, 03:05:41 PM »
Marty, the de-tuning idea is right on.

No it isn't, and he is one of the people teasing.

Quote
With that in mind, do you suppose there is a full power version in Kawasakis test lab?

???
Please define "full power."  The C14. stock *is* "full power."  They didn't remove any "power", they shifted the power band to a location more useful for touring, MPG, ride, comfort.  Or are we just talking about the secondary flies programming?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 04:04:53 PM by maxtog »
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2018, 03:06:47 PM »
Take a look at zx14 vs c14 dyno graph. zx14 produces way more low end torque than the so called low end torque c14

You are welcome to look at my footnotes, the graphs are right there.  Based on my research, your statement is not correct.  Larger throttle bodies, intake, and exhaust, and more cam overlap do not translate into more power at lower RPMs, it usually means lower torque, rougher riding, more vibration, less efficiency (lower MPG, more emissions), more deposits (less reliability).
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 04:05:58 PM by maxtog »
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2018, 03:32:44 PM »
Oddly enough, while I think of a stock C-14 as 'neutered' by the secondaries, maxtog is actually right in this post, in my opinion (I am not implying he is wrong in any other post(s); this is not a left- handed compliment). The secondaries are wide open at 7K RPM if the main throttle is wide open (WOT), so 1) max. power would still be available in a stock C-14 and 2) it probably would not make much difference in, say, 1/4 mile drag times given a skilled rider because the bike would have the secondaries open for the entire trip anyway.


That said, I do not and never have though of the secondary butterfly 'neutering' (my choice of terminology here, personal choice) as a positive thing nor do I think it has any advantages save one, and that is the relatively unimportant lowering of engine noise at low throttle and power stages. But at the same time, I never really though removing the 'flies and correcting the air / fuel ratio was in any way a performance or overall power enhancement, it merely yields the 1,400 cc motorcycle I thought I bought in the first place. A C-14 is not a good choice for a beginner motorcyclist or a first motorcycle IMO, and those buying one should not need the bottom end of the engine's performance cut in half to be 'safe' or make it a suitable touring bike.

When I buy my next C-14, it will have the 'flies in it for the ride home 'cause it is just too much trouble to remove them in the seller's parking lot or driveway.

Anyway, this is just my opinion and I certainly did not mean to get in the way of the discussion of exactly what the 'factory fresh' condition of the C-14 should be called. So please, carry on..... :-)

Brian


<snip>

???
Please define "full power."  The C14. stock *is* "full power."  They didn't remove any "power", they shifted the power band to a location more useful for touring, MPG, ride, comfort.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline maxtog

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2018, 03:36:54 PM »
You are welcome to look at my footnotes, the graphs are right there.  Based on my research, your statement is not correct.

And if you are having trouble comparing the two graphs (they are different scales and resolution), I worked my magic with GIMP, and LibreOffice Draw to scale and combine the two in an overlay.  You're welcome :)

Granted, there are lots of different dyno charts out there, I tried to pick one that seemed reliable and representative.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline tbanzer

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2018, 12:11:15 PM »
From the earlier ecu discussion the comparisson from Ivans reflash thread it really show how much the c14 is detuned :)

Offline just gone

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2018, 12:56:09 PM »
From the earlier ecu discussion the comparison from Ivans reflash thread it really show how much the c14 is detuned :)

                                                                                                                                                               :goodpost:

I don't care what max' says about you tb', you're OK in my book!  :finger_fing11:

Offline tbanzer

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2018, 01:37:33 PM »
                                                                                                                                                               :goodpost:

I don't care what max' says about you tb', you're OK in my book!  :finger_fing11:
Stir the pot, add a little fuel to the fire.

Offline maxtog

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2018, 03:15:09 PM »
I don't care what max' says about you tb', you're OK in my book!  :finger_fing11:

I didn't say anything about anyone...
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Ivan_ipp

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Re: ECU Reflash.
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2018, 06:07:48 PM »
I couldn't resist replying here as the conversation started to compare the ZX14 and the C14 ...

Thought I would share a comparison dyno chart...
This is the most accurate comparison that I can come up with from my old archives.

Both bikes are unrestricted and tuned by me with the same exhaust on my dyno... years apart, but the conditions are pretty close.
I believe this shows what the engineers designed in it's purest form.
Same exhaust, fuel and timing adjusted for both.
Sub-throttles removed on the ZX, and adjusted for best power on the C14)

I don't believe that stock to stock is a true comparison as far as engine design is concerned because they are restricted differently.


Ivan