Kawasaki Concours Forum
Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: philipintexas on January 16, 2016, 04:32:57 PM
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Just saw a TX Zales jewelry store. Very clearly posted all over the doors, were signs in English & Spanish, stating that citizens legally licensed to carry fire-arms, are prohibited from entering.
Noticeably absent was any signage prohibiting criminals, carrying concealed illegal weapons, from entering.
Go figure!? :nuts:
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the sign should say....Robbers, it is safe to rob us as no one here is armed....
since I would never have a reason to go to Zales, I suppose its a no brainer for me.
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Guess they have never heard - your rights shall not be infringed.
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Being a private enterprise, they have the right to do that. Being a private citizen, you have the right to not shop there.
I am a staunch supporter of the 2nd Amendment and I have no problem with business owners denying entry to armed citizens. I will support their right to do so to the bitter end. Individual decisions are far different than laws.
The 1st Amendment is another fine example of that double edged sword. I have no use for the Nazi party but I would die defending their right to assemble.
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! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ukFAvYP3UU#)
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the sign should say....Robbers, it is safe to rob us as no one here is armed....
+1
Although they have the right to do that, and I support that right, it is really stupid.
1) It won't stop criminals- the people who are the problem
2) It makes the place LESS SAFE
3) It tells your patrons you are having problems of some sort
4) It is bad for business and scares people
5) It turns away possible customers like me who would be pissed
I see no positive side to it at all.
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^^^^ I agree 100 percent. I will not spend my money there and I believe it is a foolish policy. I was simply making the point that they have the right tp make that policy.
I hate when the Government makes laws that business owners must abide by wether they like it or not. Smoking laws are a fine example. I believe that if a restaurant owner wants to allow smoking, he should be allowed to. If you don't want to go to a restaurant that allows smoking, DON'T GO THERE! The market will sort itself out.
Far too many individual liberties are being trampled on by the Government and I don't see those liberties being returned once they are gone.
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From within the (very handy/useful for traveling) APP "CCW", you can get a (sub?) APP called "POSTED" listing pro & anti-gun places of business.
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Just saw a TX Zales jewelry store. Very clearly posted all over the doors, were signs in English & Spanish, stating that citizens legally licensed to carry fire-arms, are prohibited from entering.
Is that the exact wording?..or did it mean they couldn't enter while armed? Seems doubtful they'd be able to keep a licensed person out if they aren't armed at the time, legally or practically.
Not a gun guy myself (currently), but not anti gun either. I don't know about Zales, but I've been in jewelry stores where all/most of the employees are heeled (yes, I do live in Texas and these visits were before the new open carry laws went into effect), so maybe Zales isn't anti-gun so much as they just want exclusivity in the matter in their establishments...that is to say in the confusion of a robbery they want to be able to shoot those non-employees they see with weapons drawn with less fear of shooting honest customers? It worked for Wyatt Earp, or so the legend goes. Maybe not valid, but I know if I had a high theft risk place of business, I'd want all the odds in my employees favor. I'd probably do the same if I owned a string of pawn shops. Given time and a lack of negative incidents (or lack of customers), the Zales policy may go away.
Interesting info especially for non-gun people like me that may have wandered into The Range: http://www.opencarrytexas.org/faq.html (http://www.opencarrytexas.org/faq.html)
..and here are some cards (10 cents ea, not a bad price) to take to Zales etc.: http://www.shop.opencarrytexas.org/No-GunsNo-Money-Cards-50pk-NoGunNoMoney.htm (http://www.shop.opencarrytexas.org/No-GunsNo-Money-Cards-50pk-NoGunNoMoney.htm)
(http://www.shop.opencarrytexas.org/images/14169640188821319527930.jpeg)
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Is that the exact wording?..or did it mean they couldn't enter while armed?
I have not been to Zales, so I don't know, but I assume they are saying while armed.
Seems doubtful they'd be able to keep a licensed person out if they aren't armed at the time, legally or practically.
Indeed. And in reality, they can't keep people out that are legally carrying, anymore than illegally. I can say that perhaps a majority of CCP people ignore such signs.
Not a gun guy myself (currently), but not anti gun either. I don't know about Zales, but I've been in jewelry stores where all/most of the employees are heeled (yes, I do live in Texas and these visits were before the new open carry laws went into effect), so maybe Zales isn't anti-gun so much as they just want exclusivity in the matter in their establishments...that is to say in the confusion of a robbery they want to be able to shoot those non-employees they see with weapons drawn with less fear of shooting honest customers?
Who knows. I have thought of such things before, myself. I am going to guess that a majority of CCP people would not get involved unless it were a direct threat to themselves.
It worked for Wyatt Earp, or so the legend goes. Maybe not valid, but I know if I had a high theft risk place of business, I'd want all the odds in my employees favor. I'd probably do the same if I owned a string of pawn shops. Given time and a lack of negative incidents (or lack of customers), the Zales policy may go away.
Ironically, *THE* place to get guns, accessories, ammo, instruction, etc in this area is Superior Pawn. Take a guess what signs are posted all over their entrances and in the stores? "NO LOADED WEAPONS ARE ALLOWED" (with various wordings and additional info). Now see if that makes much sense! Are they required by their insurance carrier or something? I have no idea. I have been meaning to ask a manager there.
Interesting info especially for non-gun people like me that may have wandered into The Range: http://www.opencarrytexas.org/faq.html (http://www.opencarrytexas.org/faq.html)
Funny seeing all this chatter about open carry in TX. Has been legal here [VA] for as long as I can remember AND WITHOUT ANY LICENSE NEEDED. It is pretty rare to see someone open carry, though.... not a great idea- Freaks some people out, attracts attention, and also makes you a target.
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Just saw a TX Zales jewelry store. Very clearly posted all over the doors, were signs in English & Spanish, stating that citizens legally licensed to carry fire-arms, are prohibited from entering.
Noticeably absent was any signage prohibiting criminals, carrying concealed illegal weapons, from entering.
Go figure!? :nuts:
What kind of sign was it? 30.06, 30.07?
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All the signs were the appropriate kind, with the proper references, 30-06, 30-07. The point is that they went to all that trouble to ward off HONEST people with weapons, while completely accepting of folks who may be illegally carrying a weapon. It is absolutely their right to do so, it just shows the kind of senseless hysteria behind even worrying about who may have a weapon.
Ban the legal ones, open door for anyone else.
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Ironically, *THE* place to get guns, accessories, ammo, instruction, etc in this area is Superior Pawn. Take a guess what signs are posted all over their entrances and in the stores? "NO LOADED WEAPONS ARE ALLOWED" (with various wordings and additional info). Now see if that makes much sense! Are they required by their insurance carrier or something? I have no idea. I have been meaning to ask a manager there.
Seems like I see that in most gun stores. I think it has more to do with safety. They get a lot of people walking in with guns out in the open and they don't want some idiot accidentally discharging one. They also have a lot of people handling guns in the store. They are careful to make sure a store gun is unloaded before handing it to a customer but mixing loaded guns with unloaded is a bad idea. I've been in a gun store and have asked to dry fire one just to see what the trigger is like. I could see some careless person comparing with their current gun. So for safety, the only loaded guns are in holsters strapped to the staff. Just my guess.
BTW: same thing at every gun show I've ever been to. They are not worried about a robbery (even criminals are not that stupid), they are worried about an accident so at gun shows they inspect every gun coming in and put cable tie through the receiver just to make sure no stupid accidents.
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Maxtog, my son lived in the Tidewater area for 13 years and on my visits it was normal to see someone carrying openly.
He eventually got his CHL but carrying saved his bacon once when a dog tried to attack him.
The cops were called on him once at the neighborhood laundromat.
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I own a 9M but am completely ignorant about CHL: How does anybody know whether or not a gun carrying individual has a CHL?
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I own a 9M but am completely ignorant about CHL: How does anybody know whether or not a gun carrying individual has a CHL?
And if you're carrying correctly, how does one even know you're carrying?
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I guess the concern is also open carry, the laws of which I also know nothing about, but same basic question: How does anybody know whether or not an individual openly carrying a gun is licensed to do so?
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Maybe individuals carrying guns should have to wear a "licensed gun carrier" type of badge, front and rear, readily visible ... like license plates :)
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Maxtog, my son lived in the Tidewater area for 13 years and on my visits it was normal to see someone carrying openly.
I guess it just depends where and when. I might see one open-carry person a year.
He eventually got his CHL but carrying saved his bacon once when a dog tried to attack him.
The cops were called on him once at the neighborhood laundromat.
In that case, I would hope that the police trace back the call and charge the people reporting it with something.... at least a ticket for wasting their time.
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I own a 9M but am completely ignorant about CHL: How does anybody know whether or not a gun carrying individual has a CHL?
They don't. They would have to ask to see the license (CHP/CHL/CCP). The police do have such a right, and you must carry the license and a photo ID with you at all times when carrying concealed.
I guess the concern is also open carry, the laws of which I also know nothing about, but same basic question: How does anybody know whether or not an individual openly carrying a gun is licensed to do so?
Same response- you don't. And the laws vary wildly from place to place. Same way you don't know if someone is licensed to drive, or licensed to practice medicine, etc.
Maybe individuals carrying guns should have to wear a "licensed gun carrier" type of badge, front and rear, readily visible ... like license plates :)
Um..... no.
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"Maybe individuals carrying guns should have to wear a "licensed gun carrier" type of badge, front and rear, readily visible ... like license plates :)"
Better yet, have the good guys just do their thing un-labeled, BUT, make the bad guys have to declare themselves!!
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Open carry generally has the same privileges and restrictions as concealed with some additional "no, no's." You can't open carry if you're on a college campus or if you're private security and not wearing a uniform. Private property owners have the right to prohibit open carry by posting a sign.
District Attorney Nico LaHood says law enforcement can stop you to ask for your LTC if you're open carrying, "If an officer politely asks you I don't care if you videotape it. Do whatever you want that you feel you need to be protected. Just, 'Yes, sir. Thank you very much, and have a blessed day,' and move on," LaHood told the open carry seminar at STW Krav Maga.
Open Carry Texas disagrees that police have legal authority to stop you only to ask for your license to carry, but they don't recommend disobeying the request unless you have a heap of money to pay for the legal battle.
There probably won't be any need to worry about that in San Antonio, though. Police Chief William McManus said San Antonio officers won't stop you just for openly carrying a gun but he said officers do have the right to ask for your weapon if they stop you and feel unsafe.
"Officers need to be able to protect themselves. So if they feel the need to remove that weapon from the individual, then they're going to do that," McManus said.
McManus also said dispatchers are trained to respond to 911 callers phoning in about someone open carrying a gun by asking a series of questions to determine why that person might be carrying a gun.
http://www.ksat.com/news/new-open-carry-law-fast-approaching (http://www.ksat.com/news/new-open-carry-law-fast-approaching)
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In many states a CHL (concealed handgun license) isn't needed to open carry.
It does seem strange to require a CHL to OC.
Then, it seems strange to me to require a CHL.
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In many states a CHL (concealed handgun license) isn't needed to open carry.
It does seem strange to require a CHL to OC.
Then, it seems strange to me to require a CHL.
The new license in Texas is called a LTC, or License To Carry. Covers both concealed and open carry.
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If I owned a retail business, I'd post the following sign:
Dear Customers:
This establishment supports Article Two of the Bill of Rights.
Your legally carried firearm is welcome here.
Discreetly present your CPL at register for 5% discount.
(No information will be retained or copied, visual display only.)
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This guy stole my idea, but that's OK:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/this-texas-barbecue-joint-will-give-you-a-discount-for-carrying-a-gun/ar-BBoxWUj?li=BBnba9J&ocid=msnbcrd (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/this-texas-barbecue-joint-will-give-you-a-discount-for-carrying-a-gun/ar-BBoxWUj?li=BBnba9J&ocid=msnbcrd)
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Ironically, *THE* place to get guns, accessories, ammo, instruction, etc in this area is Superior Pawn. Take a guess what signs are posted all over their entrances and in the stores? "NO LOADED WEAPONS ARE ALLOWED" (with various wordings and additional info). Now see if that makes much sense! Are they required by their insurance carrier or something? I have no idea. I have been meaning to ask a manager
My GF used to own a pawn shop.
They say this in order to keep idiots from bringing in loaded guns to pawn, and waiving them around.
Not so much for licensed concealed carry people.
They get lots of guns for pawn. They don't want people handing them loaded weapons.
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My GF used to own a pawn shop.
They say this in order to keep idiots from bringing in loaded guns to pawn, and waiving them around.
Not so much for licensed concealed carry people.
They get lots of guns for pawn. They don't want people handing them loaded weapons.
You mean like this??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsecTFkxWwk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsecTFkxWwk)
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...or this .... http://www.picayuneitem.com/2016/01/two-dead-two-injured-over-25-repair-charge/ (http://www.picayuneitem.com/2016/01/two-dead-two-injured-over-25-repair-charge/)
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You mean like this??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsecTFkxWwk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsecTFkxWwk)
That is an epic failure that someone supposedly trained in weapons wouldn't verify it was unloaded, and someone supposedly trained in weapons (a police officer!!!) wouldn't also verify it was unloaded. It also required a THIRD epic failure of someone storing it in the case loaded, too. Three failures had to occur. Wow.
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That is an epic failure that someone supposedly trained in weapons wouldn't verify it was unloaded, and someone supposedly trained in weapons (a police officer!!!) wouldn't also verify it was unloaded. It also required a THIRD epic failure of someone storing it in the case loaded, too. Three failures had to occur. Wow.
Blame them both, but the cop actually cycled the weapon and loaded a round in the chamber. He EXPECTED it to not be loaded and lost a finger in the meantime. Lucky that nobody off to his left wasn't hit.
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Blame them both, but the cop actually cycled the weapon and loaded a round in the chamber.
I watched it three more times. He did pull back the rail, but I watched very closely and saw nothing that would indicate he put a bullet in the gun. It could have had one in the magazine and that is what he ended up inadvertently loading.... but having pulled back the rail and looking in the breach, it is hard to imagine he wouldn't see it.
He EXPECTED it to not be loaded and lost a finger in the meantime. Lucky that nobody off to his left wasn't hit.
Indeed
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A fine reminder to keep your booger hook off of the bang switch.
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I don't really blame the cop. For christs sake, what was a loaded gun doing in the gun case? It looked like he just cycled the slide and did not see inside the weapon to see if it was loaded. I never like to see anyone messing with the action of the gun and having it pointed in somebody's direction like he was doing. As soon as you do start to mess with it make sure it is pointed in a safe direction and keep your hand away from the front of the weapon.
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Before I ever dry fire a gun, or even put my finger on the trigger, I check the chamber 3 or more times. I'll even put my pinky finger in the chamber just in case my eyes fail me. Also, I never rack the slide without dropping the mag first. All assuming I am not readying the gun for immediate use. habit habit habit habit. Did I mention habit?
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I don't really blame the cop. [...]
He broke three cardinal rules- assume EVERY GUN is loaded until proven otherwise, always point in a safe direction, and keep your finger off the trigger. Yes, there is blame to place on the gun store too, but his negligence can't be ignored either. If I were on a civil jury, I couldn't find him any less than 50% at fault.
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habit habit habit habit. Did I mention habit?
Exactly. Training, rules, practice, and habit. Like working with anything dangerous- machinery, electricity, volatile chemicals, driving, power tools, etc, making safety something automatic and habit is the best way.
I have actually had someone in the car with me ask me why I was using a turn signal or looking over my shoulder when there was nobody there. I responded that I *ALWAYS* use a turn signal when turning or changing lanes and *ALWAYS* look over my shoulder when changing lanes because it should just be automatic. Yes, one should try to keep mental tabs on what is around you all the time, but if it is habit to always do the right and safe thing, it will keep one out of trouble. I think of them as "failsafes".
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Wow...
Too bad there's actual video to prove my GF right...
I agree, Max... one would think a police officer, of all people, would have followed those important steps.
#1 thing I was taught, never hand over a loaded weapon, or a weapon that does not have the magazine removed and the slide back so the recipient can visually see the weapon is unloaded.
Also, I was trained to call the index finger a particular name- The Primary Safety.
The Primary Safety is never to be applied to the trigger UNTIL the target has been verified and sighted.
Like you said... epic fails... on both parties fault.
Wow...