Author Topic: Love or hate apple?  (Read 5362 times)

Offline Lone-Rider

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Re: Love or hate apple?
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2012, 09:42:49 AM »
Memory updrage and MP3 compatibility - that is why we are having this discussion here.

As for people being misinformed, it goes both ways. Maybe you should wander around the apple booth to see the misinformation the spout out - of course, that will be termed as sales pitch. So, yes, it can go both ways.

Absolutely can go both ways, I didn't say it doesn't. I hear a lot from both sides cheerleaders, and having used both I am able to separate the wheat from the chaff.

To be fair, I have never heard Apple employees bad mouthing Windows at the Apple store. What I have heard is them explain how a similar task is done on a Mac or point out what feature accomplishes a similar goal (iTunes vs media player, Finder vs Explorer, etc.). Now the clientele in the store may be different, but you can't blame the company for their zealots.

      

Offline AZBiker

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Re: Love or hate apple?
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2012, 06:23:19 PM »
Memory updrage and MP3 compatibility - that is why we are having this discussion here.

As for people being misinformed, it goes both ways. Maybe you should wander around the apple booth to see the misinformation the spout out - of course, that will be termed as sales pitch. So, yes, it can go both ways.

Cholla, if I am understanding AZBiker correctly, what he is saying is that you can dual boot a MAC to have windows there. But you cannot uninstall OS10 and install just windows or Linux as the only OS. AZBiker can correct me if I misstated.

The BIOS (or whatever Apple calls it) is looking for a specific set of boot instructions.  The BIOS for Apple is NOT an open standard like on  a PC.  Those boot instructions are contained in the Apple OS and nowhere else.  Any single-booting of a Mac requires an OS disc to start the BIOS.  If someone has a MAC with a new/formatted hdd and no OS disc, it is a doorstop.  The user is tied to the Apple OS forever.  On the Mac I was repairing, the owner had lost the OS discs.  Luckily he found them.

Mac laptops have optical drives that make nice noises and have nice external construction, even if they are filled with Foxconn on the inside.  Also the power connector is a genius idea.  So it's not all bad.

One of my co-workers was running an Apple OS on a PC, until Apple inserted code into an update that disabled the operating system.  This was a legally purchased copy.  So even when it's yours, it's not yours.  Nice.  Screw Apple's overly restrictive EULAs.

I would rather have messy liberty than an orderly dictatorship, no matter how benevolent.
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Derek
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Offline Jaxter

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Re: Love or hate apple?
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2012, 08:44:54 PM »
It's like comparing a Harley (PC) to a Concours (Mac)...you get what you pay for
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Offline AZBiker

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Re: Love or hate apple?
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2012, 08:59:06 PM »
It's like comparing a Harley (PC) to a Concours (Mac)...you get what you pay for

Yeah, like overpriced parts that the dealer never has in stock.
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Derek
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Offline dagofast

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Re: Love or hate apple?
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2012, 09:57:19 PM »
The first PC I ever owned was an Apple IIe in the early 80's. I stayed with Apple up thru Power Mac's in '96-97 until corporate needs required a switch to MS win98. Apple was going thru a tough time about then and aftermarket software makers were deserting them in droves. I became a defacto MS guy with windows 'putters, phones, ect. I also became the family "IT guy" dealing with crashes, constant windows updates, making new devices like cameras, printers, scanner and whatever all work. Not to mention the added expense of updating from Office '97-2000-2003-2010. Have you ever noticed that MS are REAL proud of Office?

Then last December I swapped out my 2+ year old windows 6.5 phone for an iPhone 4S. WOW! The difference was stunning. Like going from a moped to a Connie 14 stunning. Just like everyone who had an iPhone had told me: "it just works". Even though my win 6.5 phone was barely 2 years old and they had still been selling them long after I purchased mine, MS had already closed the "My Phone" website that offered back ups for contacts and photos. A few months later, they announced the discontinuation of "Marketplace" and any app you had paid for would no longer be available. There was NEVER one single software update made available in the 2+ years I had the phone and there were plenty of bugs. Their support, in a word; SUCKED.

By contrast, even an iPhone 3GS, which is pretty ancient by cell phone standards, is still fully supported by Apple. And that means fully: software updates, service, training, you name it. I expect my 4S will remain a viable phone for quite awhile.

By February it was becoming necessary to replace my old win XP machine. It occurred to me that I no longer need to conform to corporate lackey-hood so I did some shopping and found the same thing mentioned here, for the same processor, hard drive size, amount of RAM a Mac always lost out to a windows box on dollar cost. The sticker shock nearly caused me to ignore Mac's but I'm really glad I dug a little deeper. I found you shouldn't benchmark MS/Apple computers that way. You need to realize that a Mac comes not only with all those similar guts encased in a machined from solid billet chunk of aluminum, but they are pretty much fully loaded with everything you need software wise. That very expensive Office with Outlook email client you have to buy for a windows machine? Mail is already loaded on every Mac. iPhoto? Its on there. iCal, Address book, iMovie, Garageband? All there. The only programs I had to buy for the iMac were Pages (Word) Numbers (Excel) and Keynote (Powerpoint) and each is available separately for $19.99 and you can load it on multiple (5 or 10) computers. And guess what? Just like the iPhone, it all just works. And its soooo much easier to use. The best news? I am no longer the family IT guy.

And again, if needed the support is incredible. Imagine having Murph like support for your computer/phone/ipod or ipad. It's that good. Live near an Apple store? Enjoy free classes on any of the software mentioned and on how to use your device. Apples phone support is based in the USA with people that speak english natively. Buy an Applecare warranty and receive many extra years of coverage on your device. Buy a One to One package and receive just that, one to one training on any of their software and help on your special projects.

Good luck finding any of that on a HP/Acer?Gateway/whathaveyou box.

Offline AZBiker

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Re: Love or hate apple?
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2012, 10:27:12 PM »
You know, there are more OSs out there besides Windows and Apple.

Why pay for an office suite AT ALL when you can get one that works great and saves programs in MS format and doesn't cost a penny?

Guess you've never heard of Open Office or Libre Office.

You went from pwned by MS to pwned by Apple in one step.

Wow.

I thought it was common knowledge that Windows phones really sucked.  Guess you didn't get that memo.
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Derek
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Offline Mal

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Re: Love or hate apple?
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2012, 08:05:58 AM »

I would rather have messy liberty than an orderly dictatorship, no matter how benevolent.

+1  :thumbs:
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Offline sherob

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Re: Love or hate apple?
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2012, 09:26:00 AM »
I wasn't a big Apple fan, at first.  I had a Droid X for a long long time.  I really liked that phone a lot.  It was my second Droid phone, and I really liked the platform.

Well, you can't lock them down like you can an iPhone or a Windows platform phone security wise for work.  So I had to switch, and I went with an iPhone.  I wasn't really pleased at first... little things that the Droid could do, the iPhone wouldn't.  The apps were different too.

Well as time went by, I started to notice something, and I liked it... my iPhone didn't crater or lock up twice a day like my Droid X did, and I was on the latest Gingerbread release at the time too.  I actually like the iPhone now... have learned to use it.  I just needed to learn the iPhone after using a Droid for so long.

Keep an eye on the Windows phone platform... you should see big things coming later this year.
Rob
Brighton, CO... missing Texas!

Offline Awaz

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Re: Love or hate apple?
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2012, 09:39:28 AM »
It's like comparing a Harley (PC) to a Concours (Mac)...you get what you pay for

I take it the other way around Harley(MAC) and PC(Concours).

Harley is all hip, nice, shiny and overpriced. And some owners think it is the best motorcycle in the entire world. I remember a funny incident at the end the ERC this year. This guy that rides a road glide comes to me with some ABATE forms and asks if I would like to join. He proceeds to comment that they do not care what we ride - two girls in that chapter even ride pink Kawasakies! Got me speechless! lol
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Offline dagofast

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Re: Love or hate apple?
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2012, 12:27:01 PM »
You know, there are more OSs out there besides Windows and Apple.

Why pay for an office suite AT ALL when you can get one that works great and saves programs in MS format and doesn't cost a penny?

Guess you've never heard of Open Office or Libre Office.

You went from pwned by MS to pwned by Apple in one step.

Wow.

I thought it was common knowledge that Windows phones really sucked.  Guess you didn't get that memo.

I've fixed enough stuff to last me 10 lifetimes and have zero interest in wasting another hour of my life configuring some version of linux to work on someone else's box.

Yes, I've used Open Office in the past. Yes, I've gotten malware/virus from it. Thanks, but no thanks.

The windows phone I learned the hard way. You would have thought the mighty MS could do better, but true to form, they blew it. But there weren't many alternatives at the time. Palm? That didn't end well. Android had just been introduced and it wasn't very impressive. And the iPhone wasn't yet available on my carrier.

Happiness for me is having everything in the same ecosphere working together in harmony. Take a photo on my iPhone and thanks to iCloud *poof* there it is on my computer. Edit or add a contact on either device and *poof* there it is on the other. Sharing documents is just as easy. The best part is it just works. No mad skills required.

To each their own.

Offline Outback_Jon

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Re: Love or hate apple?
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2012, 04:07:12 PM »
I've fixed enough stuff to last me 10 lifetimes and have zero interest in wasting another hour of my life configuring some version of linux to work on someone else's box.
Just curious, but have you tried linux lately?  I've got Ubuntu 12.04, on a 2GB memory stick, that I can stick into any computer and it configures itself.  (I don't use it a lot, but it comes in handy when rescuing screwed up Windows boxes) 
"Outback Jon" Gould *** South Cairo, NY *** COG #9506 *** 2006 C10 "Blueline" *** CDA #0157

Offline AZBiker

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Re: Love or hate apple?
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2012, 06:38:19 PM »
I take it the other way around Harley(MAC) and PC(Concours).

Harley is all hip, nice, shiny and overpriced. And some owners think it is the best motorcycle in the entire world. I remember a funny incident at the end the ERC this year. This guy that rides a road glide comes to me with some ABATE forms and asks if I would like to join. He proceeds to comment that they do not care what we ride - two girls in that chapter even ride pink Kawasakies! Got me speechless! lol

So how much does Kawasaki sell our OE rear valve stems for? 
For my C-10, it was $35.  Got one for a Triumph for $12 that works great though.  90 degree, super low profile, just over 1/3 the price.

How much does Kawasaki sell OE float bowl seals for?  Last thing I saw was $13.95 EACH.  From H-D, around $5.  Yes they fit, and they are even in stock.  If they didn't fit then my C-10 would be leaking gas all over the place.

Ask a smart KLR owner where they buy a replacement diaphragm if theirs goes bad.  H-D is half the price of Kawasaki and the local dealer probably has one IN STOCK.

Look at the fasteners used an a stock C-10.  Compared to even a base-model XL they are cheap junk.  Otherwise, Murph wouldn't sell a kit that brings the bike up to the level one gets with a stock H-D.

The brakes on my 2001 XL were fixed-rotor stainless and the rotors were made in the USA, iirc.  It had 4-piston opposed calipers also.  A brandy-new rotor costs $120 from H-D.  Ever checked the price for a pre-94 fixed-rotor C-10?  Bout $300 each, aren't they?  Sure, they have a slightly larger diameter than the H-D so they take a little more material to produce but does that warrant the 250% price increase?

My 2001 XL had more advanced instrumentation than a 2006 Concours.  2006--mechanical, inaccurate speedo and mechanical odometer.  Really, Kawasaki?

My C-10 has cost me way more in parts than my XLH ever did.  That's just stuff to keep the bike on the road, running properly, serviced and safe.  I don't buy all that chrome crap and I'm not really into farkles.

Still better than not riding at all though.  I don't know who will make my next bike but I do know who won't be making it.

Just curious, have you ever turned a wrench on an H-D or owned one?
rubber side down,

Derek
93 Cali black & red

Offline AZBiker

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Re: Love or hate apple?
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2012, 06:57:37 PM »
I've fixed enough stuff to last me 10 lifetimes and have zero interest in wasting another hour of my life configuring some version of linux to work on someone else's box.

Yes, I've used Open Office in the past. Yes, I've gotten malware/virus from it. Thanks, but no thanks.

The windows phone I learned the hard way. You would have thought the mighty MS could do better, but true to form, they blew it. But there weren't many alternatives at the time. Palm? That didn't end well. Android had just been introduced and it wasn't very impressive. And the iPhone wasn't yet available on my carrier.

Happiness for me is having everything in the same ecosphere working together in harmony. Take a photo on my iPhone and thanks to iCloud *poof* there it is on my computer. Edit or add a contact on either device and *poof* there it is on the other. Sharing documents is just as easy. The best part is it just works. No mad skills required.

To each their own.

So you are a fan of the Benevolent Dictator.  Got it.

Just so I can get my head around this, you are saying that you downloaded Open Office DIRECTLY from the Open Office servers and got a virus from it?  Not from some mirror that you found by googling Open Office, but from the link provided on their actual website.

Or are you talking about badbunny, which can only be gotten by OPENING AN EMAIL ATTACHMENT.  OO had one, as opposed to the many that affect MS Office.  And that one was 5 years ago.  It came in the form of an OO Draw document.  I guess that one would be easy to miss considering the number of .odg documents you were getting. 

Since when does it take an hour to install linux?  It took awhile for me to install the OS on the Mac, seeing as it is on 2 DVDs, but linux?

Fits on a single CD and has everything.
rubber side down,

Derek
93 Cali black & red

Offline Cholla

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Re: Love or hate apple?
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2012, 06:04:28 AM »
Does anyone realize MS Office was written for the Mac FIRST?
And, yes, I understand what was being said about taking a blank HDD and booting from it. I understand it can be done by making a small mod on the motherboard which allows the OS on the drive to access the BIOS.
Been using Macs since before they were Macs-anyone remember the Apple Lisa?
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