Kawasaki Concours Forum

Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: Slideways on March 15, 2013, 10:48:06 AM

Title: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Slideways on March 15, 2013, 10:48:06 AM
Motorcycles vs. Bicycles

I am a lifelong avid motorcyclist and bicyclist. I'm an old guy who's been around the block many times on both pedal and motor bikes and there isn't much that'll shut me up but recently I was dumfounded. For me there is no better way to spend a Sunday morning then a motorcycle ride to The Rock Store for coffee with friends of the motor persuasion followed by a ride on the bicycle with friends from the other camp.
 
While enjoying the company my motor buddies on a recent Sunday morning the subject of bicycles came up in conversation with a Rock Store regular whom I have liked and spoken with several times. He mentioned coming upon big bicycle training ride and being annoyed (understatement) with the way the ride held up traffic and the general rudness of the bicyclists. Couldn't really fault him. Big group rides, especially race training rides pose the most difficult bicycles vs. all the other users of the road problems. I've given this issue a fair amount of thought and never really arrived at a satisfactory answer. Small groups and individual riders can ride in ways that make them good ambassadors for bicyclists but you need to turn on the grey matter under that little helmet thing. As the conversation progressed the fellow I was speaking with confessed something to me that has me deeply bothered still. He recounted a ride where he came up on a bicycle rider on a canyon descent. With ample time (his decription not mine) he sounded the motorcycle's horn to alert the bicycle rider of his approach. As he started to overtake the bicycle, in the same lane mind you, he said the bicyclist aggesively defended his line through the corner by moving toward the center line. By the telling of this affair you could tell the motorcyclist felt this was rude, even dangerous as he stated that to avoid not passing too close to the bicycle he would have had to moved into the oncoming lane. With a more then a little degree of self-righteousness he said he simply held his line (though he could have changed it, again his words) and made contact with the bicycle causing the rider to crash. When I asked what happened next to my dismay he stated that he never stopped and the bicycle rider got a heliocopter ride! My mind went blank from sudden overload and I could not collect my thoughts for several moments. Finally I looked at him and suggested that he might have committed a felony. His attitude suggested that the bicyclist had deserved the crash that resulted and he showed no remorse at all. I can only assume he knew of the rider being airlifted out because he looked into the matter after the fact, most likely concerned that he might be identified and arrested. Proving any of this would be pointless so I must deal with it on my own. Sadly I may never go the Rock Store for Sunday morning coffee again but maybe a little explaination bicycle vs. motorcycle will illuminate a few differences that can help us share the road in peace.

There are many similarities and many differences between motorcycles and bicycles. I just want to cover a few that concern the crash. "At speed" for a bicycle is much slower then a motorcycle. That bicycle rider you want to pass may seem to be going slow if you are on a motorcycle but the bicycle rider may be at the edge of his abilities or speed the conditions will allow. With skinny, fagile tires and a sub twenty pound vehicle under you road conditions that a motorcycle would perhaps not even notice can be very hazardous for that bicycle. A rut in the asphalt that a motorcycle tire could roll over without concern could grab a bicycle tire and cause a crash. Little wonder that a bicyclist might seem a jitter squid if a sudden change of line is made to avoid something that would not be a problem for a motorcycle. Passing a bicycle rider while staying in the same lane requires care and skill, even more so at speed on a descent. That many bicycle clubs specify 'no passing on down hills' for their club sponsored group rides is a good example of just how hazardous experienced bicycle riders believe this to be. As the operator of another vehicle you must not pass a bicycle unless you can do it well and safely. Sharing a lane with a bicycle while a pass is made can be illegal but at a minimum the motorcycles must understand the limits of a bicycle and think more like that bicycle rider then a motorcyclist to pull off a safe pass. So back to the bicycle rider who 'aggresivly defended his line'. No mention was made of eye contact or middle fingers being waved just the fact that the bicycle moved over suddenly was assumed to be an act of aggression. Who knows, maybe it was aggression and maybe it was a rut in the road. I do know that like motorcyclists most bicycle riders do not screw aound with the bigger vehicles they share the road with because let's face it the little guy loses. I also know that the hit and run motorcyclist had an incomplete understanding of the dynamics that a bicycle deals with. When you overtake that bicycle think about them making a sudden change and give them at least three feet. Melodiusly tootling you little horn is okay but consider that the wind noise for that bicyclist at speed may be worse then yours as you ears are covered more completely. Will he hear you? Most likely but he may not have the ability to change position quickly and the closing speed can leave little time for that bicycle rider to respond. If you can't pass and leave ample room or do it safely wait. What the hell, it's only going to be a few seconds. It's not like you're on a bicycle and would have to power yourself back up to speed with pedals, you have a throttle. This whole affair really boils down to a screwed up sense of entitlement on the part of the motorcyclist certainly and perhaps on the parts of both riders. We have to remind ourselves that it is not 'my road' but 'our road' and we should all share and play nicely together. 

Lastly I know this person to be a BMW Motorcycle ride ambassador, he told me this and described that the title even required special training before he could lead rides. Well guess what, are all ambassadors for our cycles motorized or not. To open a discussion about all those bicycles that ride half way out in the lane or two and three abreast is not the point here, though it is one of my own pet peeves. The main thing hopfully being accomplished is to help the motorized riders to better understand just a couple of the aspects of being on the skinny tired, pedal powered bikes. Just understanding better a little bit ain't the cure for a problem but it is a start.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Son of Pappy on March 15, 2013, 11:07:03 AM
Rude is rude, regardless of mode of transportation.  I hate the STP (Seattle To Portland) event every year.  Plugging the roads with no concern for the vehicles that pay for those roads.  Yet, I would never consider hitting them.  I see rude behaviour daily, it is just highlighted when it is on a bicycle and the idea that someone would consider themselves somehow protected is indeed mind boggling.  Everyone has the same right to the road, yet some think that right is extended to them only.  Laws are laws and apply equally to all forms of transport.  How often does a bike rider just filter to the front of the stop light and then run the same light?  Does pedaling give them some special power over others?  Is it unique?  Yes, but that same uniqueness does not give them special rights.

The rider who hit the bicyclist?  Jail would be a good place for him.  The bicyclist who supposedly cut him off?  If that was the case Karma showed him who was boss.  The laws of tonnage know no bounds.   If you find yourself in a destruction derby and a tank shows up, leave, because you will lose.

The so called ambasador?  I'd find his club and have a discussion with their members, he is not fit for the role, he comitted a felony, and worse yet, an act of violence with intent/willingness to harm.  Don't let it slide.

Educate other riders, powered and otherwise, to SHARE the road, not hog it up.  There is space enough for all of us.

I'm sure somehow, someway I have offended someone.  Tell me where I am wrong and I will listen.  Don't just tell me I am wrong.  I like being educated.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Conrad on March 15, 2013, 11:21:14 AM
IMO this asshole on the motorcycle should be spending some time in jail. It's quite possible that the guy on the bike didn't even know that the motorcycle was even behind him blowing his horn. The bicyclist could have had ear buds in with his tunes cranked, not the safest practice but still.

How long ago did this happen? I'd be tempted to contact the authorities.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: JMills on March 15, 2013, 01:29:05 PM
As a motorcyclist and a bicyclist I see the entitlement all the time.  When I ride I an always vigilant to know where others are an anticipate them.  From this account, that on a decent the bicyclist moved towards the centerline to set up for a possible curve.  The bicyclist had the right of way since it was ahead of the motorcyclist.  Had the motorcyclist reduced speed to allow the bicyclist to follow his line, the motorcyclist could have passed when it was safe for all riders.  Instead the motorcyclists took the tack of me first so true of many who ride BMW's.  the bicyclist ended up sacrificing theirselves, had he not they both could have been on the same care flight.  I am with others on this forum and the motorcyclist probably committed a felony.

I have no sympathy for this type of rider.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Nosmo on March 15, 2013, 07:48:12 PM
The motorcyclist didn't "maybe commit a felony"...he DID commit one.  At least in Washington State, hit and run with injury is a class "C" felony, as I read the law.  Weaing earbuds/headphones, etc., while riding a bicycle is also illegal here, due to the safety factor of impaired hearing.  So, yeah, it could be a matter of two people both being wrong.

Intentionally striking someone with any vehicle is wrong unless that person is assaulting or attempting to assault you with their vehicle.  (Vehicular self-defense??)  A bicyclist hitting a car with their bike is equally wrong, although chances are the cyclist will get the short end of that stick.

Having said all that, not every situation is cut-and-dried.  I believe the cyclist in the scenario mentioned was wrong to intentionally hold up traffic IF he could have safely gotten out of the way.  But sometimes "safely" is a relative term.  I have many thousands of miles on my old bicycles and I have always been a "lane defender" WHEN APPROPRIATE.  Deciding when and what is appropriate is a quandry in itself and the motor vehicles around you are likely to disagree, much as they are likely to disagree with the way we motorcyclists defend our lane position.  ("Why do you a$$holes always ride way out in the middle of the road on the center line?  Why don't you stay to the right like you're supposed to?")  Sometimes you're safer in the middle of the lane than off to the side.

When I was young and fit I thought nothing of blasting downhill as fast as possible.  I hit 52.5 MPH once according to my speedo, wearing nothing but a thin T-shirt and Spandex shorts and a Dixie-cup plastic hat.  That was before I discovered motorcycles and Shoei and armored clothing.

I have always tried to be a polite cyclist and keep as far out of the way as I can, and not hold up traffic.  However, on the occasions when I can keep up speed with cars, like fast downhills, I hold to the law and defend my lane.  If I can do 40 MPH in a 35 MPH zone, then I get out in the center of my lane, which I have a legal right to do, and I own that lane.  My reasoning:  Almost everyone will try to pass a bicyclist who is riding on the fog line, and many won't be concerned if they gently sideswipe them and send them into the ditch.  ("Honest officer, I thought I had room, and anyway, he swerved into me.")   Maybe they feel that's defendable in court and in their own conscience.  But very few drivers will intentionally run down a cyclist from behind, knowing it will likely lead to death and vehicular assault charges.  But having a legal right to do something and being right in doing it aren't always the same.  You have to be reasonable and not go around thinking you own the world.  You may find you are dead right, as they say.

Some of the issue is about being inconvenienced by someone going slower and getting in your way.  But, a large part of it is the feeling some people have towards those who are differnet than they are.  I see this on my truck forums, too.  A lot of people who drive pickup trucks can't stand those guys in little cars, who hate guys in "them big-a$$ trucks", both groups hate motorcyclists and bicyclists and us here are sick and tired of being intimidated and assaulted by cagers.  Each group has some sort of problem with the others.  One thing I get tired of hearing is drivers' complaints that bicyclists don't pay for the roads so they should not be on the roads.  Well, I drive and/or motorcycle enough miles every year that I pay my fair share of fuel taxes and license fees and car tab fees for these roads, and I think I am within my rights to ride my bicycle on them as long as it is legal.  Very, very few people ride bicycles ALL the time, so nearly all cyclists do pay their share of highway fees.  If the state wants me off the vehicle road, then I'll pay a little extra in taxes if the state will build more USABLE, PRACTICAL bikeways to actually go somewhere and can be used for getting around.

We either have to learn to live together or decide to pay the price for being segregated, and that doesn't seem to be a workable solution at this time.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Furbo on March 16, 2013, 02:05:30 AM
Living in Italy, bicycles are a fact of life and a part of any daily commute. Old ladies with umbrellas, teenage kids, and skinny guys in matching spandex outfits....pass'em every day. In a place this crowded, with roads this small, sharing is mandatory and it really works pretty well. Most of the time guys ride in line, or will tuck back in line when a car approaches from the rear. As long as you leave about a foot of clearance for passing, no one gets upset.

Have had two incidents with bikes, one a lady came into the road from the left and I hit her. It was 6 AM, dark, she was wearing black (of course) and had no lights.... I was ticketed for failure to yield, but not with causing an accident.  The other was up in the Dolomites on the motorcycle - there are tons of cyclists riding the Sella Group passes in the summer. Was going up hill, came in behind a slow car, pulled out to pass, and a cyclist coming the other way veered off the road and did an endo-face plant right in front of me. Don't know if I scared him, or if he was already in a bad way when I saw him - he was heading downhill and a good clip.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Slideways on March 16, 2013, 05:10:36 AM
Well said Nosmo! Thanks for the reply.

The writing of this was partly therapy for the way the conversation left me feeling. In the end my goal was to perhaps explain to the non bicycle riding motorcyclist what the bicycle rider might be experiencing to help explain how and why that bicyclist might be reacting as they are.

The fact that the response has been as it has is a relief, wasn't certain how it might be recieved.

Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on March 16, 2013, 11:14:09 AM
Motorcycles vs. Bicycles

........ With ample time (his decription not mine) he sounded the motorcycle's horn to alert the bicycle rider of his approach. As he started to overtake the bicycle, in the same lane mind you, he said the bicyclist aggesively defended his line through the corner by moving toward the center line. By the telling of this affair you could tell the motorcyclist felt this was rude, even dangerous as he stated that to avoid not passing too close to the bicycle he would have had to moved into the oncoming lane. With a more then a little degree of self-righteousness he said he simply held his line (though he could have changed it, again his words) and made contact with the bicycle causing the rider to crash. When I asked what happened next to my dismay he stated that he never stopped and the bicycle rider got a heliocopter ride! My mind went blank from sudden overload and I could not collect my thoughts for several moments. Finally I looked at him and suggested that he might have committed a felony. His attitude suggested that the bicyclist had deserved the crash that resulted and he showed no remorse at all. ......

If you don't drop a dime on this no-account-ass-pilot you are destined to bear the stigmata of KNOWING what he did.
You also came here and trustingly shared this account with intent to gain some mental closure for someone else's deviant behavior.
I feel sorry that you have to go on thinking about the sad truth.

Seriously, I would not think twice of making a full disclosure and report him to the authorities, and go so far as to make a presence with said authorities at "The Rock Store" to fully point this clown out, to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
it could have been YOU that was injured, or anyone you care about, and that is unsettling.....

I was physically run off a road in my youth, (struck by a vehical) on a bike while hugging the berm on a backroad. Tore my ass up pretty severely, lots of pavement rash, total destruction of my wheels ($400 is a lot to loose as a kid); and the offenders actually turned around down the road, and returned and threw beer cans at me when they passed.... I got the license number and wrote it in the dirt on the side of the road. I hailed a deputy while limping home bleeding and carrying the remains of my bike, and made a report, returning with him to the spot, where he wrote the license number down....I didn't get a call from them and after a week, went  the Sherriff and asked what they were doing about this.....they basically told me they couldn't do a thing, as they did not catch "the driver" of the vehical in action. They did however share the name with me.

let's just say "an eye for an eye" was justice, and that's all I'm saying about that. ;)
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Pokey on March 16, 2013, 11:21:50 AM
I loathe cyclist's on the main roads, pisses me off to no end. However I would never do anything to put any of them in danger, but I do believe there needs to be more rules and laws for cyclists if they want to be on the roads with combustible engines. Personally I think y'all are nuts for riding on the road, talk about a dangerous hobby and passion. There are so many bike trails and paths these days, but all I ever hear from cyclists is that they ride much too fast and aggressive for the trails/paths.   ::)
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Rhino on March 16, 2013, 12:54:56 PM
I have seen rude behavior by ALL types, cars, trucks, bicycles and motorcycles. No one group has a lock on bad behavior. Bad behavior on the bicyclist part is absolutely no excuse for hitting him on purpose. If you can avoid an accident regardless of who is at fault you should always AVOID THE ACCIDENT! To purposely cause the guy to crash, to leave the scene of an injury accident is criminal IMO. He should go to jail for awhile and think about what he did plus pay restitution to the bicyclist.

and BTW, if the collision had caused the MC to crash as well you just know he would be screaming bloody murder.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Nosmo on March 16, 2013, 09:09:24 PM
I loathe cyclist's on the main roads, pisses me off to no end. However I would never do anything to put any of them in danger, but I do believe there needs to be more rules and laws for cyclists if they want to be on the roads with combustible engines. Personally I think y'all are nuts for riding on the road, talk about a dangerous hobby and passion. There are so many bike trails and paths these days, but all I ever hear from cyclists is that they ride much too fast and aggressive for the trails/paths.   ::)

That right there is a big part of the problem with bike trails as they currently exist.  They are not designed to get you anywhere.  They are just for weekend type slow riders who like to smell the flowers and pretend they are getting some "cardio".  Most around here are posted at maybe 10 MPH speed limit.  A good, fit adult cyclist can bore along in the twenties easily.  So they are stuck, being too slow for the roads, and too fast for the trails.  And most bike trails are multi-use, for pedestrians and strollers, skate boards, etc.  And that is nearly as bad a mix as bicycles and cars.  Pedestrians REALLY hate cyclists.  We used to have a local trail (unpaved, but hard-packed) that was originally for mountain biking, then it got discovered by the baby stroller crowd, so they put a speed limit on it and signs saying cyclists must yield to pedestrians.  Then the horse riders found out about it, and they got the signs changed to say horses had right-of-way, and all users had to stop and make way for horses, and bicycles had to get off their bikes and OFF THE TRAIL to avoid spooking horses when they passed. 

It's funny how the most efficient form of transportation invented so far is hated by everyone else using a less efficient form.   People who don't bicycle are like people who don't motorcycle:  If you don't do it, you can't understand it.  As for rules and laws, at least in Washington State, bicycles are subject to all rules and laws for traffic movement that motor vehicles are, plus some extras.  That doesn't mean the riders obey them.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: ZG on March 17, 2013, 12:05:49 AM
Why such long posts...  ???
 
Can somebody post a pic so I can understand the topic and join in?  :-\
 
 
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Wrinkled Wrider on March 17, 2013, 04:38:07 AM
We have to assume some responsibility for own own safety while on the road, especially on two wheels (motorized or not). Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. I've pulled pulled to the side to allow others to pass while riding my motorcycle; once when being tailgated by a jerk who wanted to go faster than I felt like, and once in dense fog when I was holding up several cars. I've also moved to the inside on downhill curves on my bicycle to allow cars to pass when it would have been more fun, but less safe, to use the entire lane and maximize my speed. The fact that I had a right to the lane didn't mean I was going to get to use it.
That said, there is no excuse, moral or legal, in this kind of context,  for deliberately endangering or injuring someone because they are where you want to be.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: TallyRex on March 17, 2013, 04:58:40 AM
Your BMW acquaintance is an a-hole.  Wonder if he would knock over a bunch of 50 H-Ds doing the same blocking manuever ?
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Cholla on March 17, 2013, 05:30:09 AM
Around here bicycles are to stay to the right. Riding in the middle of the road is a no-no.
They bicyclist axed to get hit but the m/c rider was wrong in doing so. BOTH were in the wrong.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Necron99 on March 17, 2013, 06:48:53 AM
Here you go, ZG.
(http://blog.brooksengland.com/wps/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/bicycle-crash.jpg)
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Slideways on March 17, 2013, 08:06:45 AM
Ahhh... More misunderstanding. Through out the USA bicycles are expected to follow the same laws as motor vehicles and it is safer in many situations to act like one instead of a pedestrian. As far as riding out in the lane is concerned this is a condition that is misunderstood by motorist regularly. Let's look at a few issues related to this because it is the cause of much, if not most of the conflict between vehicle vs bicycles. A white line painted alone the edge of a lane of traffic that has a shoulder to its right does not nessarily mean the shoulder is a bike lane. It would be polite and wise for the pedal bike to use it as such if it is safe but technically if it is not legally designated as a bike lane the cyclist has every right to be in the lane. 'In the lane' means to the right as far as is reasonable for the conditions of the road and if those conditions present a safety issue for the bicycle it is their right to 'take the lane' to avoid that condition. The cyclist should signal their intent to move away from the right of the lane in this instance and once the bicycle has taken the lane motorists must pass as if they were passing another car. A couple of states have passed laws that require a motorist to come not closer then three feet to a bicycle when passing and several more are being pressured to do the same but the three feet rule is generally consider a safe distance. As to groups riding two, three, four abreast and creating a log jam.... well as a life long cyclist this is one of my pet peeves. Yes they should ride single file if there is other traffic. No they should not be riding more then two abreast. Generally a group ride of bicyclists is a cluster f*** because there is no rider in that group acting as the ride leader. They whole thing comes down to rider training and there is damn little of it in cycling. This does not make it okay, it just is and sadly motorist must deal with it without harming the bicycle rider. This said if a small group is taking a lane and a motorist comes up they may well reform into a single file line but getting several cyclist rearranged doesn't happen in a snap of the fingers and the approaching car may be upon them before they have been able to get into that single file line. It's a drag yes but you might have to slow and wait a few seconds for the gaggle to regroup before passing. If a bunch like this is at least making an effort to do the right thing I give them the moment they need. There is an important difference between a group of bicyclists and a group of motorcyclists that is the reason for most of the unreasonable riding practices. That is the ability to converse while riding. Yes there is gear now that allows motorcyclists to communicate but not every rider has this and it is much different then simply being able to talk. I bring this up to help explain why cyclists ride next to one another and although this does not make doing so right or smart or even safe talking to your riding buddy is part of cycling. Here again just trying to cast a little light on things and help bring some understanding to this issue.

In my opening post other reasons for a cyclists to use the lane were presented. Those dealt with differences between a motorcycle and a bicycle and I tried to explain some of why a cyclist might do some seemingly unreasonable things especially at speed. As a motorcyclist we all act differently and better I believe toward that rider on a motorcycle when we are driving our cages. We do this because we have a better understanding of the what the motorcyclist is experiencing, unlike the typical driver who has never ridden and has no frickin' clue. If I can help you guys understand the bicyclist a little better and you modify your outlook and riding to bring a little peace to the highway then some good will come of BMW Idiot Boy's transgression. At this point I couldn't possibly try to turn him in as I have no information about the incident and I am certain even if info could be uncovered he would deny it. There is karma though and I think it caught up to him. Last fall he screwed up, went over a steep embankment in a very remote area and spent almost two days under that BMW so injured he could not move. Help finally came and he has a long road of rehab ahead but will be ok and is riding again. I wouldn't wish this on him but then again I don't nessesarily disapprove. Wonder if he thought of the bicycle rider while he was lying there?
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on March 17, 2013, 03:29:52 PM
just can't out ride KARMA... 8) ;)
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: stevewfl on March 17, 2013, 07:17:46 PM
When I'm not on the Connie or a sportbike, I'm rocking the carbin fibre on the road. Ok I'll be honest, its been a dust collector lately maybe I'll put it on the craigslist 

POKEY had a sign put up in his honor-  ;D

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/14.jpg)


Some miles in NC

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/1.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/4.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/2.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/5.jpg)

A few in SC

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/15.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/12.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/10.jpg)

Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Nosmo on March 17, 2013, 09:13:23 PM
stevewfl:

That bike isn't safe to ride.  Somebody stole most of your spokes. ;)
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Pokey on March 18, 2013, 06:39:59 AM
Have had some very close calls in tunnels and blind curves on the BRP with cyclists, hence why I am not a fan of them. Hi viz and a tail light should be mandatory for all cyclists, especially on roads like the BRP and Skyline Drive......it helps keep us all safer.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 18, 2013, 06:44:00 AM
+1 on that....
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: stevewfl on March 18, 2013, 07:48:45 AM
+2

I have a stick on LED for the helmet and another on the back of the bike when on the BRP or anywhere other than the FL sunshine
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: connie1 on March 18, 2013, 08:54:05 AM
In my opinion the bike rider may have taken the horn toot as 'I know you're there, we're both bikes, lets get through this corner and then I'll pass'.  Sort of a courtesy and trust between riders.  The moto rider betrayed that trust.  It wouldn't have cost him but a second or two to hang back but he wanted to be a dick.  Well he is one in my books.  Hope he thinks about it and loses a lot of sleep over it.  The chickens usually come home to roost.

Alternatively,  we are always talking on this forum about atgatt and riding like everyone is out to kill us...don't the cyclists have any sense of self preservation?  I hate coming up to cyclists on a road because they are as unpredictable as scared rabbits.  Pedestrians have the right of way when crossing a street but when was the last time you stepped out without looking?  Did you trust that guy who looked like he was slowing down but not making eye contact?  Self preservation! 
The cyclist who was hit maybe had to swing out to make the corner because of speed or road but maybe he should have hit the brakes instead and stayed to the inside and not trusted the moto rider.

It takes alot of trust to ride or drive our roads.  We trust that nobody does something stupid all the time.  Moto rider did somethig stupid and it cost someone else dearly.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Strawboss on March 19, 2013, 01:13:26 PM
They recently passed some law in Ohio making it legal to ride side by side on a bicycle on roads. Its next to impossible to to travel down some roads on weekends due to back ups because many cars think you can't pass a bicycle on a double yellow line straight road. I like bicycles, I've got no problem with them being on the roads. But like many things and activities, bad behavior is remembered. Its very rare for me around where I live to see a bicyclist obeying the traffic rules that all on the road should obey. Stop signs? Forget it. Red lights? I've seen bikes many times ride through against the light at intersections. Speed limits? Nope. Courtesy? Your kidding right? I just wish they'd ride single file on a busy road thats all. 
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Pokey on March 19, 2013, 10:04:55 PM
They recently passed some law in Ohio making it legal to ride side by side on a bicycle on roads. Its next to impossible to to travel down some roads on weekends due to back ups because many cars think you can't pass a bicycle on a double yellow line straight road. I like bicycles, I've got no problem with them being on the roads. But like many things and activities, bad behavior is remembered. Its very rare for me around where I live to see a bicyclist obeying the traffic rules that all on the road should obey. Stop signs? Forget it. Red lights? I've seen bikes many times ride through against the light at intersections. Speed limits? Nope. Courtesy? Your kidding right? I just wish they'd ride single file on a busy road thats all.


Thanks for summing up my thoughts and my observations as well.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: twowheeladdict on March 20, 2013, 06:10:37 AM
I didn't read all the posts, but I will chime in anyway.  Most motorists are not educated enough about the rights of bicyclists on the roadways.  bicycles have as much right on the roadway as motorized vehicles (with very few exceptions like interstates).  People are supposed to pass by moving into the other lane when it is safe to do so. 

All those who are pissed at bicyclists on the roadway are just selfish persons who are thinking only of themselves. 

Out in the country we deal with bicyclists, farm equipment, old pickups, ancient drivers in ancient vehicles, etc. 

The only people I get pissed at are the ones who are breaking the rules of the roadway like turning left from the right lane, driving slow in the left lane, texting while driving, etc.

I would provide an anonomous tip to the police concerning that rider.  Nothing may come of it, but you will have done the right thing.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: gPink on March 20, 2013, 06:24:45 AM

All those who are pissed at bicyclists on the roadway are just selfish persons who are thinking only of themselves. 

Not true
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: stevewfl on March 20, 2013, 06:39:17 AM
In FL the geriatrics are more of an issue than bicyclists  :D
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Conrad on March 20, 2013, 08:33:13 AM
In FL the geriatrics are more of an issue than bicyclists  :D

What about when you combine the two?    :o

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2614/4017131913_013a31fbc4.jpg)
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Pokey on March 20, 2013, 09:00:51 AM
Not true


For sure not true, it is a safety issue for me "and that includes the cyclist".
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Slideways on March 20, 2013, 09:18:46 AM
For sure not true, it is a safety issue for me "and that includes the cyclist".

It's a safety issue that includes all of us using the roads. Okay so maybe it is legal to ride double file in some states, fine. However if the cycling community wants to promote peace on the roads use common sense (honestly why is it so uncommon?) and make an effort to share the road even if "legally" you have a right to do otherwise. On some of the canyon roads I bicycle on there are many hilly, twisty sections that motorists have difficulty passing on. At the first safe oppurtunity I pull over and wave them by. Doesn't ruin my ride anymore then it screws up the motorist to hang back for a moment while I'm getting out of their way.

Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: MrPepsi on March 20, 2013, 09:22:21 AM
All those who are pissed at bicyclists on the roadway are just selfish persons who are thinking only of themselves. 

NO way. I'm not pissed at bicyclists in general, but here in San Francisco we have a lot of bike riders running stop signs, stop lights, and even killing pedestrians and making jokes about it.  (http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/san_francisco&id=9018139)
Too many cyclists with no care of the law here.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Pokey on March 20, 2013, 05:27:08 PM
For sure not true, it is a safety issue for me "and that includes the cyclist".

It's a safety issue that includes all of us using the roads. Okay so maybe it is legal to ride double file in some states, fine. However if the cycling community wants to promote peace on the roads use common sense (honestly why is it so uncommon?) and make an effort to share the road even if "legally" you have a right to do otherwise. On some of the canyon roads I bicycle on there are many hilly, twisty sections that motorists have difficulty passing on. At the first safe oppurtunity I pull over and wave them by. Doesn't ruin my ride anymore then it screws up the motorist to hang back for a moment while I'm getting out of their way.


You are in the minority for that. And on another note, some of the clothing that cyclists wear should be outlawed.  :o
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: gPink on March 20, 2013, 05:54:46 PM

You are in the minority for that. And on another note, some of the clothing that cyclists wear should be outlawed.  :o
Looks a little Euro doesn't it?  :pukeface:
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Rhino on March 20, 2013, 07:35:35 PM
In FL the geriatrics are more of an issue than bicyclists  :D

I had a brother that lived in Stuart for years. He stopped riding because of that.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Cholla on March 21, 2013, 04:20:13 AM
The bicyclist moved in front of the m/c. Whether he knew it is moot. Here bikes are to remain to the right, just as a pedestrian is to walk against the traffic and remain to the side. The m/c rider should have stopped after making contact but the bicyclist was at fault. Let's say it was two motorcyclists and one suddenly moved in front of the passing m/c. What say ye now?
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Outback_Jon on March 21, 2013, 06:36:37 AM
Looks a little Euro doesn't it?  :pukeface:
If by "Euro" you mean "stretched beyond the limits of what even Spandex should be capable of", then yes.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Slideways on March 21, 2013, 07:17:04 AM
The bicyclist moved in front of the m/c. Whether he knew it is moot. Here bikes are to remain to the right, just as a pedestrian is to walk against the traffic and remain to the side. The m/c rider should have stopped after making contact but the bicyclist was at fault. Let's say it was two motorcyclists and one suddenly moved in front of the passing m/c. What say ye now?

A bicycle is to stay to the right side of the lane as far as safely possible. Safe if the key word and and the cyclist has a right to the whole lane if he needs it. The motorcyclist involved here told me he could have chosen to avoid the bicycle but felt he had a right to the lane without having to alter his line through the corner. If you reread the first post this was stated there. The motorcyclist did not say to me in his telling of this the the bicycle moved over suddenly but that he felt the cyclist was aggessively 'defending' his line through the corn which unfortunately intersected the motorcycles line. I fail to see how the bicyclist is at fault here.

Fault aside my goal in this thread is to show some of the differences a bicycle rider experiences, especially at speed vs what a motorcylist experiences in the same circumstances. If I accomplish this then maybe some of you who read this will better understand what that cyclist may or may not do as you approach and are about to overtake them. A little understanding and maybe the knowledge will make for at little more peace on the roads.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: stevewfl on March 21, 2013, 08:10:30 AM
are we grumpy haters (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/icon10.gif)
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Cholla on March 21, 2013, 08:12:30 AM
You say the bicyclist "defended his line". IOW he chose to move to the center of the road even though the m/c was approaching. You also said the bicyclist is to remain to the right if safely possible.
It wasn't safe to move left because a vehicle was approaching. IOW- the bicyclist was the aggressor. He was not avoiding a hazard, he was riding aggressively and chose to move to the inside of the lane even though the hazard was approaching from the rear. I am not defending the motorcyclist but let's say he crossed the center line to avoid the bike and caused an accident. He was only doing the same as the bicyclist by "aggressively defending his line".
Both were wrong.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: stevewfl on March 21, 2013, 08:12:47 AM
When I'm not on the Connie or a sportbike, I'm rocking the carbin fibre on the road. Ok I'll be honest, its been a dust collector lately maybe I'll put it on the craigslist 

POKEY had a sign put up in his honor-  ;D

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/14.jpg)


Some miles in NC

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/1.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/4.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/2.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/5.jpg)

A few in SC

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/15.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/12.jpg)

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/ashevillesummer09/bicycling/10.jpg)

^^^^^^my right to run red lights and ride through cross walks, on side walks. with full forgiveness of the law!

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/junk1/do_what.jpg)
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Cholla on March 21, 2013, 08:35:32 AM
That must be Beauregard, the wonder dog!
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: ARS on March 21, 2013, 08:38:27 PM
are we grumpy haters (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/icon10.gif)

+1
As some of you, I live in both worlds.  Bicycling and motorcycling are two of my favorite passions.  Attitudes have change in the past 30 years on the road.  I don’t understand it so I couldn’t start to explain why so many of us have become so aggressive on the roads.  When I say aggressive, I’m referring to down to vindictive like behavior.  This includes all types of vehicles and people.
25 years ago I rode a bicycle from San Diego to Northern Wisconsin carrying 70 lbs of gear.  I didn’t have one single problem with motorist. . .not one!  Now if I want to go on a 20 mile bicycle ride I have to launch out of my garage on a Saturday or Sunday morning as the sun starts to pop up to avoid the drunks and punks.  Even still I’ve been forced onto the soft gravel shoulder by some punk a$$ cager twice on a flat straight stretch of county road in the middle of nowhere with no other traffic!!
Not looking for a group hug . . .it just sucks having to exercise my open carry rights while riding a bicycle.  My 9mm doesn’t match my neon shirt.
 :shoot:  ;)
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Cholla on March 22, 2013, 08:45:35 AM
Ya don't have to be on a bike of any kind to avoid some cagers. They even challenge 18 wheelers!
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Slideways on March 22, 2013, 09:33:02 AM
You say the bicyclist "defended his line". IOW he chose to move to the center of the road even though the m/c was approaching. You also said the bicyclist is to remain to the right if safely possible.
It wasn't safe to move left because a vehicle was approaching. IOW- the bicyclist was the aggressor. He was not avoiding a hazard, he was riding aggressively and chose to move to the inside of the lane even though the hazard was approaching from the rear. I am not defending the motorcyclist but let's say he crossed the center line to avoid the bike and caused an accident. He was only doing the same as the bicyclist by "aggressively defending his line".
Both were wrong.

What I said was that the motorcyclist told me the cyclist was defending his line. Truth is that motorcyclist is not a bicyclist (he told me as much) and we don't know for certain. The cyclist could simply have been going at a speed likely still under the speed limit but fast enough that he felt he needed the lane to make the turn or maybe some obstacle had him move over or maybe he was just plain an idiot and felt he had a right to the whole lane. Bottom line is we don't know. What is known is that the motorcyclist had an option and he told me this, he could have avoided the contact but felt he also was entitled to the same patch of asphalt occupied by the bicycle at that moment and chose not to avoid the cyclist. It was not an accident, it was intentional. I go back to the question of how is this the fault of the cyclist?

If the guy on the BMW had a better understanding of what a guy on a bicycle might be experiencing and a more appropriate sense of self entitlement his first assumption might not have been that the cyclist was "aggessively defending his line".

How many of us have done something perfectly legal but none the less it pissed off some cager who did not understand some aspect of motorcycling? Say you split lanes and move to the head of the line at a stop light. The light changes and you are gone, never got in anyones way. No big deal if it is legal in your state, right? Next light here is some dude in car yelling at you. Jeez, really guy? Well if Mr. Yelling Guy rode a motorcycle it never would have bothered him. Let's say he gets to work and is bitching to co-workers about the idiot on the motorcycle and one of these is a motorcyclist who calms him down and explains what the guy on the motor was really doing. I know, I know over simplified but and example of how to be an ambassador for motorcycling and perhaps change someones understanding of what we do. THAT is all I am trying to do here.

Okay no more posts on this from me. If you still think this is about who was at fault I failed....
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Strawboss on March 22, 2013, 09:49:27 AM
My opinion is that many drivers are mad a bicyclists because there are a lot of cars, not many bikes, but the bikes seem to be ridden by folks who appear to be on a mission to force folks into accepting bikes on the road, its almost taunting, why ride 3 abreast down a  busy main road during rush hour backing up traffic. Again, I've got no problem with bikes on the road, provided they obey all the laws everyone else has to. Many don't, but, many do, not enough in my opinion. Why is this not presented by the bycyclists when they are promoting sharing the roads? I've not seen it when I see a presentation. All I've ever seen is bad drivers. I think the motorcyclist was wrong.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: gPink on March 22, 2013, 10:29:17 AM
My opinion is that many drivers are mad a bicyclists because there are a lot of cars, not many bikes, but the bikes seem to be ridden by folks who appear to be on a mission to force folks into accepting bikes on the road, its almost taunting, why ride 3 abreast down a  busy main road during rush hour backing up traffic. Again, I've got no problem with bikes on the road, provided they obey all the laws everyone else has to. Many don't, but, many do, not enough in my opinion. Why is this not presented by the bycyclists when they are promoting sharing the roads? I've not seen it when I see a presentation. All I've ever seen is bad drivers. I think the motorcyclist was wrong.
kinda like the gay marriage thing
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Strawboss on March 22, 2013, 10:43:04 AM
I wouldn't know about a gay marriage thing. Another point of contention is nowhere during any PR or legislation presentations have I seen anything where bicyclists are required to share anything except space on a public roadway where everyone else has to pay to use it in the form of taxes on gasoline or license plates. If this can be done, then how? Require bicycle license plates? That may make some better accept bicycles on the road. I know bicycles are not as destructive as some other vehicles that use the road, but if we are talking about sharing, then lets talk about all of us really sharing the roads. Just a thought, not sure what other states do.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: MrPepsi on March 22, 2013, 10:55:41 AM
Well if you consider that motorcycles are cheaper to license than cars, maybe partially due to wear and tear on roads, then bicycles are free because they cause nearly no damage what so ever. They are still a form of transportation and have the right to use the road, even if I don't like when they get in my way.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Cholla on March 22, 2013, 11:43:44 AM
Again, BOTH were "defending their line". Why is one correct in doing so and the other wrong?

And I'll ask again, what if it was another m/c or pedestrian?

If bicyclists want to be welcomed more they need to follow the laws and stop acting like they own the roads. Here we have lots of bicyclists as the roads are flat and straight. The know you are there and line up 3- abrest knowing you are there. The laws say single file on the right. Its not bicycles causing the problems, its the idiots on them.
This sounds just like the old HD threads, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Strawboss on March 22, 2013, 12:05:18 PM
Money collected from gasoline and plates goes towards maintaining that road that bikes use, and it also goes to creating bike specific paths and lanes, and towards making the usually car centric road more friendly to bikes with striping, signalling, and signage. I think requiring bikes to be licensed and registered and riders themselves with a low fee would go a long way towards maintaining roads, coordinating and trying to ensure proper operation of them and better educating both riders and drivers in their safe and eco friendly use and providing an environment conducive to more friendly relations between them both.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Rhino on March 25, 2013, 10:22:29 AM
What I said was that the motorcyclist told me the cyclist was defending his line. Truth is that motorcyclist is not a bicyclist (he told me as much) and we don't know for certain. The cyclist could simply have been going at a speed likely still under the speed limit but fast enough that he felt he needed the lane to make the turn or maybe some obstacle had him move over or maybe he was just plain an idiot and felt he had a right to the whole lane. Bottom line is we don't know. What is known is that the motorcyclist had an option and he told me this, he could have avoided the contact but felt he also was entitled to the same patch of asphalt occupied by the bicycle at that moment and chose not to avoid the cyclist. It was not an accident, it was intentional. I go back to the question of how is this the fault of the cyclist?

If the guy on the BMW had a better understanding of what a guy on a bicycle might be experiencing and a more appropriate sense of self entitlement his first assumption might not have been that the cyclist was "aggessively defending his line".

How many of us have done something perfectly legal but none the less it pissed off some cager who did not understand some aspect of motorcycling? Say you split lanes and move to the head of the line at a stop light. The light changes and you are gone, never got in anyones way. No big deal if it is legal in your state, right? Next light here is some dude in car yelling at you. Jeez, really guy? Well if Mr. Yelling Guy rode a motorcycle it never would have bothered him. Let's say he gets to work and is bitching to co-workers about the idiot on the motorcycle and one of these is a motorcyclist who calms him down and explains what the guy on the motor was really doing. I know, I know over simplified but and example of how to be an ambassador for motorcycling and perhaps change someones understanding of what we do. THAT is all I am trying to do here.

Okay no more posts on this from me. If you still think this is about who was at fault I failed....

If that is the case then the motorcyclist committed assault. I don't care how bad the bicyclist F'ed up or how annoying or how rude, if you can avoid an accident without undo risk to yourself you had a duty to avoid the accident. Especially if it results in an injury accident.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Cholla on March 25, 2013, 10:54:48 AM
But he was only "defending his line"....
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Rhino on March 25, 2013, 11:11:17 AM
One last post on this subject. I live in Colorado and it seems to be the bicyclist mecca here. Every spring we have some sort of rally that goes by our house that seems to go on forever. Numbers on their jersey up into the 5 digits. I call it the day of the living bicyclist. So I too get annoyed with the bicycles riding abreast as though all the cars should just go 10 mph like they do. But you know there are millions of cagers that are annoyed by us. If we cannot and let tolerance prevail then don't expect the cagers to do it either. No matter how annoying, be patient and let them do their thing. Maybe this advice will rub off on the cagers and they will let us do our thing.

Ok I'll get off the soap box now, thanks for listening.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Cholla on March 25, 2013, 02:09:10 PM
So the cagers and motorcyclists must show tolerance while bicyclists run roughshod....I get it!
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: stevewfl on March 25, 2013, 02:22:55 PM
Haters gonna' hate!   :D

(http://media.heavy.com/media/2010/09/bicycle-babe-pink-skirt.jpg)


Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: gPink on March 25, 2013, 02:24:16 PM
So the cagers and motorcyclists must show tolerance while bicyclists run roughshod....I get it!
hehehe
I see the correllation now. Bicyclist=liberal.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Rhino on March 25, 2013, 02:27:44 PM
So the cagers and motorcyclists must show tolerance while bicyclists run roughshod....I get it!

So are you saying cagers shouldn't show tolerance for us motorcyclists? We all do stuff that other people don't like. If it's smoking, drinking, riding bicycles, driving fast cars, riding motorcycles or name anything here, there is always someone annoyed by it and advocating to have it curtailed or eliminated. If we all advocate eliminating stuff we don't like, don't be surprised if your hobby/passion gets curtailed or eliminated. So if some bicyclist holds you up for a few minutes, feel free to flip them the bird, honk the horn, but then get over it and get on with your life and understand that yes, you yourself, will do something to annoy or inconvenience someone else in the near future.
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Rhino on March 25, 2013, 02:30:33 PM
Haters gonna' hate!   :D

(http://media.heavy.com/media/2010/09/bicycle-babe-pink-skirt.jpg)

I'd be happy to follow that bicyclist at 10 mph all day long :P
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: Cholla on March 25, 2013, 04:01:59 PM
Rhino, that's not what I said at all.

We, whether in cars or on m/c's are to show tolerance the bikes while the bicyclists ride all over the road, riding unsafely and blocking motorized vehicles?
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: ZG on March 25, 2013, 08:00:20 PM
I'd be happy to follow that bicyclist at 10 mph all day long :P

+1...  :P
 
Title: Re: Bicyclist vs. Motorcycle
Post by: twowheeladdict on March 31, 2013, 07:12:15 AM
Here are the rules of the road in FL.

http://www.floridabicycle.org/rules/bikelaw.html (http://www.floridabicycle.org/rules/bikelaw.html)

I'm sure you can find the rules for your state. 

I was on the Blue Ridge Parkway pulling a 30 foot travel trailer when I got caught behind a line of bicycles climbing a hill.  I could not safely pass and I felt bad for the vehicles who were behind me so I pulled into the first overlook I could fit into so I would not impede traffic.

I did not have to legally do that.  I could have just putted along behind the bicyclists enjoying the scenery, but I know there are idiots on the road who might try some stupid maneuver and get someone killed so I did the sensible thing and got out of the situation.

Driving or riding with a level of frustration turns otherwise sensible people into idiots who take unnecessary risks.