Hydro'd C10 rebuilt and running smoothly... but no power underload!

[Brad Baerwald]

I'm impressed! that you guys haven't given up on me!  THANK YOU!!  The ideas and the experience you have is re-energizing me to open her up again!

Steve in Sunny Fla, T Cro, and Jettawreck,  You are correct I had never done a compression check before! (obviously ha ha) and I bought the tester years ago in one of the  "priced to move bins" at an auto parts store... its been in my tool box in its orginal packaging up until I tested Cylinder#1   SO... yes I did not know to hold the throttle wide open AND I had a bad cell in the battery (inspite of the fact that I kept it on a trickle charger) AND I had only pulled the plug for Cylinder #1   I did everything wrong!  I'm going to try and do it right this time.  If you guys couldn't tell, I've been reluctant to do all the cyclinders for one main reason... I don't think I can get the tester in the holes because of the frame!!  would you settle for #'s 1 and 4?? cause I don't know if I can get #'s 2 and 3? but I will try... promise!

Steve in Sunny Fla,   I thought of your #2 point when I did the "epic" cam timing session last time.  and I completely get you on the position of timing plate! because everything is based on that plate being in the "right place"!!   and  my way of checking was to insert a long thin allen tool into Cylinder #1's  open sparkplug hole and rotate the crank shaft and see if TDC agrees with the marks... it did and it seemed dead on to me (because I would expect it would be fairly slight if it was off..) but do you think that isnt good enough?  and what else would you use to turn the crank??  I always saw this as a fragile situation, so i've allways been very gentle when doing so.  but without that big nut I don't know how else to rotate the crank?  My question has always been; could the Hydrolock event itself some how moved that timing plate? (I don't see how but it a very violent occurence)

You have me really confused on point #3  and this concerns me greatly  are you talking about the sprockets being moved?  they have never been taken off of the cams.

angelo,  Huh?... did you get the KZ1000 working?  Your wife was not impressed?  you lost me... my wife brings me beers, from time to time too!!  Even after 30 plus years! (yes I am lucky)

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

actually physically remove the timing plate to determine if the roll pin is intact or not.  When measuring TDC on a piston, it has to go through a swing of several degrees that would all appear to be TDC, but you need a timing wheel and a dial indicator to actually determine where TDC is. Just sticking a depth gage of some sort wouldn't catch it.

 as far as the cams, if they haven't been off the sprockets that's good; as long as you're using the timing mark adjacent to the bolt you're fine.

 angelo is suggesting a vacuum leak. that's not the case here, a vacuum leak will kill your idle.

 if my points check out good then we go back with MOB's ideas, it's to lean of a fuel mix for whatever reason. HTH, Steve

[angelo]

angelo,  Huh?... did you get the KZ1000 working?  Your wife was not impressed?  you lost me... my wife brings me beers, from time to time too!!  Even after 30 plus years! (yes I am lucky)

Yessir.  Wound up taking that thing to California a week or two later.  She still gets impressed - but not often enough to let it get to my head.  Good luck getting it running right.

[Brad Baerwald]

Ok Steve, I will pull that plate (reluctantly).  but I'm going to try the compression tests first  and if I get good numbers... would that indicate that I don't have a "timing plate / cam timing issue? 

Steve, can't that pin be seen quite clearly while its together?  (it sure looks like I can see it...)

I have another thought (rattling around in my head) what if one of the carb sliders wasn't moving (for what ever reason) it would still idle great but I would think that you'd sense that it was missing on a cylinder as the reves picked up. dragging a cylinder would rob a lot of power

Again, Thank you for the genuine concern and input!!  Too bad everyone is spread all over the country!   I brew my own beer and Mead... I got a batch of (real) dill pickles fermenting in the basement.  I have a wood fire oven for pizzas and my wife makes amazing dough  (I do the sauce)  I'd have everyone over for "home made" everything  Ha Ha

Not that anyone cares about what I'm about to say, but I'm going to make an effort to contribute back to this forum (no matter the end result with the Conny)  My question concerning this idea is what does this forum see as "most valuable"?... or what can I do to be a valuable contributor?   I run an Audio / Video recording studio and I was wondering if I should start videoing this epic "knock down drag out" I'm having with this bike?  Or is that "way too much" for this forum??   My point is; I want to give back (If I Can)  and audio and video is what I do (I obviously SUCK at writing ha ha ha)  Sorry about all the mushy stuff but these days it seems RARE that anyone gives a crap about anybody but themselves!  This is an impressive group...  Just saying.

[jettawreck]

"Steve in Sunny Fla, T Cro, and Jettawreck,  You are correct I had never done a compression check before! (obviously ha ha) and I bought the tester years ago in one of the  "priced to move bins" at an auto parts store... its been in my tool box in its orginal packaging up until I tested Cylinder#1   SO... yes I did not know to hold the throttle wide open AND I had a bad cell in the battery (inspite of the fact that I kept it on a trickle charger) AND I had only pulled the plug for Cylinder #1   I did everything wrong!  I'm going to try and do it right this time.  If you guys couldn't tell, I've been reluctant to do all the cyclinders for one main reason... I don't think I can get the tester in the holes because of the frame!!  would you settle for #'s 1 and 4?? cause I don't know if I can get #'s 2 and 3? but I will try... promise!"

My compression tester is a cheap one too, so I don't pay a lot of attention to the actual numbers in comparison to what others may get, but uniformity is what is important to me. That's why you want to get all the cylinder's numbers. If it is the typical gauge unit with 6-8" of flex hose on it, it will get the center ones. I can't recall, but the coils may have to come off, which is easy enough. I do remember having to scrounge up the correct spark plug adapter for mine, as it had either gotten "misplaced" or wasn't part of the kit.
Work through it. SISF obviously knows his stuff and has pretty much "seen it all" with these engines. Put his and other's experience and suggestions into practice and the Connie will be back to full power soon.   

[gPink]

Brad, you could pack a frozen pizza or two in dry ice and get it us in pretty good condition.

[Brad Baerwald]

OK, DONE... hmmm center cylinders off  10 PSI off from the outer 2 with cylinder 4 having maybe a 5 psi edge on #1

All plugs pulled, Throttle wide open, (air tool oil in each cylinder) and a BRAND new battery:

#1 = 90 PSI  #2 = 80 PSI  #3 = 80 PSI  #4 = 94 PSI

sounds like a TIMING ISSUE Hmmm?  interesting the the center 2 are low (I think it was cylinder #2 that bent the rod)

I have to mow the lawn now but if I can get away with it (cause i have a business to run) I will pull the timing plate nut after that...  I sure hope this is it... but what if it isn't?? (the Timing plate I'm talking about)  and no disrespect to anyone but there is NO way (I) sheared that pin (by using that not to turn the crank... but again I sure hope this is it ?!?!

[Brad Baerwald]

Oh and BTW... that rod was bent so bad (see my 2nd post attachment) the engine could NOT turn over!! (because it was binding)

[T Cro ®]

All plugs pulled, Throttle wide open, (air tool oil in each cylinder) and a BRAND new battery:

#1 = 90 PSI  #2 = 80 PSI  #3 = 80 PSI  #4 = 94 PSI

Wow something is way off should be 128 to 196 PSI

[Brad Baerwald]

OMG guys, i'm not prone to freaking out but... I'm freaking out!!! I really needed that pin to be "sheared"  its NOT!!!

[Brad Baerwald]

here is the timing...it looks pretty spot on to me?! how bout you guys??  "Intake"

[Brad Baerwald]

exhust cam

[Brad Baerwald]

Timing plate

[MAN OF BLUES]

OK, DONE... hmmm center cylinders off  10 PSI off from the outer 2 with cylinder 4 having maybe a 5 psi edge on #1

All plugs pulled, Throttle wide open, (air tool oil in each cylinder) and a BRAND new battery:

#1 = 90 PSI  #2 = 80 PSI  #3 = 80 PSI  #4 = 94 PSI

sounds like a TIMING ISSUE Hmmm?  interesting the the center 2 are low (I think it was cylinder #2 that bent the rod)

I have to mow the lawn now but if I can get away with it (cause i have a business to run) I will pull the timing plate nut after that...  I sure hope this is it... but what if it isn't?? (the Timing plate I'm talking about)  and no disrespect to anyone but there is NO way (I) sheared that pin (by using that not to turn the crank... but again I sure hope this is it ?!?!

good job, now we can take the fuel, and timing (for the moment) out of the main cause, and focus on this issue...
you should go back and recheck all your valve clearances, please.
we need to solve the compression issue.
did you use all new gaskets at assembly? did you insure they were sealing correctly, as no knicks or gouges on mating surfaces?
did you only replace one piston, or did you remove all 4?
if they were removed, did you replace rings? end gaps on rings correctly clocked? end gaps inspected to within spec?

[Brad Baerwald]

This is the compressor tester I used... doesn't (look like a bad one?)

[Brad Baerwald]

I did as little movement and screwing with this as I could.  so yes only the piston in question was removed! (none others)  I didn't touch or play with ring's (other than remove / install them from / to the cylinders)  Now I know where you are going but PLEASE work with me here.. it was running fine just before it broke... I haven't messed with anything!  I will check the valve clearences (again) but really??  how can they change AND that consitantly across all cylinders??  BUT I REALIZE I'm the guy at the loss here and you guys KNOW what your talking about... So I will look.  I replaced the cylinder Base gasket but reconditioned the Head gasket (used a head Gasket copper spray) but not before I cleaned it COMPLETELY using a sovent  (all mating surfaces, top of cylinder and bottom of head... and I mean COMPLETLY clean!!)  BTW NO nicks anywhere... and of the 100 plus miles since it's reassembly.. no leakage (into the cooling system) or outside the head gasket gap that I have seen or heard. but admittedly that is "from inside to outside" and that does NOT mean the other way around...  AGIAN I'm applealing to common sense... what's the possiblity of THAT level of consistancy  if it was leaking??  they want over $100 a head gasket...  again I'm appealing to common sense.

[MAN OF BLUES]

This is the compressor tester I used... doesn't (look like a bad one?)

I've never tried that type on a Conni, and don't know if it works correctly for fit, most of us have the type with a hose, and threaded sealable end piece that screws into the sparkplug hole.... that type works for sure, and also allows you to see if it leaks down....might want to pick one up at a parts store, $20 or so...
http://www.autozone.com/test-scan-and-specialty-tools/compression-tester/actron-compression-tester/87580_0_0/

[MAN OF BLUES]

I did as little movement and screwing with this as I could.  so yes only the piston in question was removed! (none others)  I didn't touch or play with ring's (other than remove / install them from / to the cylinders)  Now I know where you are going but PLEASE work with me here.. it was running fine just before it broke... I haven't messed with anything!  I will check the valve clearences (again) but really??  how can they change AND that consitantly across all cylinders??  BUT I REALIZE I'm the guy at the loss here and you guys KNOW what your talking about... So I will look.  I replaced the cylinder Base gasket but reconditioned the Head gasket (used a head Gasket copper spray) but not before I cleaned it COMPLETELY using a sovent  (all mating surfaces, top of cylinder and bottom of head... and I mean COMPLETLY clean!!)  BTW NO nicks anywhere... and of the 100 plus miles since it's reassembly.. no leakage (into the cooling system) or outside the head gasket gap that I have seen or heard. but admittedly that is "from inside to outside" and that does NOT mean the other way around...  AGIAN I'm applealing to common sense... what's the possiblity of THAT level of consistancy  if it was leaking??  they want over $100 a head gasket...  again I'm appealing to common sense.

ok, this is the issues we deal with trying to find a cure over the web....
you never said anything at the beginning, or during this, stating you put a hundred miles plus since the rebuild.... I was taking this as it was a problem right from the start, after the work was completed, and that it didn't run correctly right off...

now, was this running correctly during the first run, and then after a hundred miles began running poorly?

this makes a big difference.

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

it's the intake cam, just as I previously described.

BTW you really need to clean up that rtv mess you've got going on there. Steve

[MAN OF BLUES]

it's the intake cam, just as I previously described.

BTW you really need to clean up that rtv mess you've got going on there. Steve

I'm tending to agree with you Steve, its just logical, but he needs to answer all the questions...

also, do you think that manual compression tool he used fits down in the well, and seals off the plug hole? I don't, I know the one I have won't reach, and is too big in diameter... we really need reliable compression figures...

then id say if he actually does have good compression, and was riding the bike a hundred miles prior to failure... we go back to the old water in gas thing...

vicious circle bubba

just so you know Brad, you have the top 2 people I know of, regarding this bike, on the case right now.... we have done more impossible diagnostics than this a hundred times or more, over the web..... so stick with us, ok?