Rear Brake/ABS Pump issue

[feelergaugephil]

Sorry for hashing up an old thread...
I got same symptoms, sticky back brake peddle,  bled the rear brake, worked fine for about a month, sticky again,  removed rear master cylinder, cleaned out some debris inside, seals look great and work good, put back together and nothing, yes, Nothing....
Have plenty of fluid in reservoir, which goes to master cylinder, but have no fluid at brake caliper even with 20 lb pressure on mitivac (even left it on 22lb pressure all night)  bled the master cylinder, lets see.....hmmmm   3 hrs!!!  still nothing.....
 

[maxtog]

Sorry for hashing up an old thread...

There is nothing to be sorry for.  It is almost always preferable to post to an existing thread than to create a new,  duplicate one.

[MAN OF BLUES]

Sorry for hashing up an old thread...
I got same symptoms, sticky back brake peddle,  bled the rear brake, worked fine for about a month, sticky again,  removed rear master cylinder, cleaned out some debris inside, seals look great and work good, put back together and nothing, yes, Nothing....
Have plenty of fluid in reservoir, which goes to master cylinder, but have no fluid at brake caliper even with 20 lb pressure on mitivac (even left it on 22lb pressure all night)  bled the master cylinder, lets see.....hmmmm   3 hrs!!!  still nothing.....

Didn't see it mentioned, but did you remove and clean the rear calipers? If not, might be a good thing....
Suck a little of the fluid out of the master cylinder to drop its level a bit, and pry the pistons on the caliper to push fluid back up into the master cylinder, this should dislodge any air, and possible debris and pshit upwards, and after that you should be able to develope pressure in the line actuating the pedel. Then continue bleeding in a normal manner. Sounds like an air bubble is cavitating in that assembly, and preventing a good piston seal, resulting in a bubble blockage so to speak.

[tbanzer]

Do we have any documentation on what years are involved with these issues? From what I have read is its 08 mostly and only rear brake problems. My 08 has rear an ABS issue as well.

[maxtog]

Do we have any documentation on what years are involved with these issues? From what I have read is its 08 mostly and only rear brake problems. My 08 has rear an ABS issue as well.

It would help if all people put their model years in their signatures, taglines, or avatar areas....

It looks to me like it might be 08 and 09... which is gen1, which is a different system than the gen2's ABS.

[feelergaugephil]

Didn't see it mentioned, but did you remove and clean the rear calipers? If not, might be a good thing....
Suck a little of the fluid out of the master cylinder to drop its level a bit, and pry the pistons on the caliper to push fluid back up into the master cylinder, this should dislodge any air, and possible debris and pshit upwards, and after that you should be able to develope pressure in the line actuating the pedel. Then continue bleeding in a normal manner. Sounds like an air bubble is cavitating in that assembly, and preventing a good piston seal, resulting in a bubble blockage so to speak.

Unable to get any fluid from the ABS unit down to Caliper.
Even left the mitivac on 22lbs overnight on "open" caliper to see if will pull fluid,  nothing.
No didn't clean rear caliper,  spent hrs on the net last night, everything pointing to ABS unit,  I pulled mine out today, now I'm searching for an 08/09 one to put back in, then the dreaded purging the whole system....

[feelergaugephil]

Sorry, mines an 09.

[MAN OF BLUES]

Unable to get any fluid from the ABS unit down to Caliper.
Even left the mitivac on 22lbs overnight on "open" caliper to see if will pull fluid,  nothing.
No didn't clean rear caliper,  spent hrs on the net last night, everything pointing to ABS unit,  I pulled mine out today, now I'm searching for an 08/09 one to put back in, then the dreaded purging the whole system....

Well, my suggestions fall to the wayside about trying to PUSH fluid from the caliper back up thru the mc now.
As you have disconnected the pump and associated lines.
I wish I would have had my response understood before that occurred, as I feel it may have been a solution.
Trying to suck fluids down from the mc thru to the caliper, even overnight, isn't the same as backflusing the system back to its origen.

Best of luck.

[Freddy]

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=21794.0

[tbanzer]

I suspect there is more to the issues related to gen 1 ABS failures than some late brake fluid flushes. ABS has been around along time now in the automotive world. I don't Know anyone I could say flushes their brake fluid until possibly brake pads are required and ABS failures are extremely rare on the vehicles that I am familiar with.

[Diablo6v]

I have an '09 that had a complete ABS failure. SISF replaced the ABS pump and I bought the bike. After a year or so and 25,000 miles i flushed the brakes both front and rear. The horrible black crap that came out was amazing. Especially after just having the pump replaced the year before. SISF and I suspect the brake lines are deteriorating. The bike is 7 yrs old now. I am replacing them with some Speiglers or SS lines soon.  FYI the brakes do not work if the pump dies. I know the manual says they still work. They do NOT...

[tbanzer]

My brake flushes had fluid come out that looked like new with no discoloration, and still have rear ABS issues.

[Freddy]

K stipulates that brake hoses are to be replaced at 4 year intervals iirc, so most are well over due.

[maxtog]

K stipulates that brake hoses are to be replaced at 4 year intervals iirc, so most are well over due.

I have seen that before and thought it was either insane or a misprint.  Do you think they are actually serious?  Do people actually replace rubber brake lines after just several years???  I think of cars and have never heard of that being done unless it is some classic car that is 20+ years old!

[Freddy]

I suppose the jury is still out on the frequency, except in Diablo's case, but the manufacturer knows best. 

The major issue I have with this series 1 ABS unit failure is that the warning light does not illuminate when the system self-tests in the first few metres of every ride.  This is contrary to what is spelt out quite clearly in the FSM.

[maxtog]

The major issue I have with this series 1 ABS unit failure is that the warning light does not illuminate when the system self-tests in the first few metres of every ride.  This is contrary to what is spelt out quite clearly in the FSM.

It is probable that the self-test doesn't or can't test ALL aspects of the system, so some malfunctions will get through undetected.  I don't know what it really tests, nor if there is a difference in those tests between the gen1 and gen2 designs.

[Freddy]

On the contrary - the gen 1 FSM details what fault code is generated by which specific failed component of the ABS system (leaving the gen 2 aside as it's a somewhat different system).  Such brake failure is bad and conceivably caused by lack of maintenance, which seems to cause the valve(s) within the ABS unit to stick in the 'open to pump/closed to master cylinder' position (service code 13 or 14 below) which, in turn, causes a hydraulic lock back to the master cylinder.

While rear brake failure of this type is bad enough, there is a second life-threatening failure - that of the warning system itself.  The ABS warning lamp goes off after the first short distance of start-up riding, falsely giving the rider feedback that the brake system is trouble-free whereas, in fact, the rear brakes have failed the test and will fail to apply but the lamp doesn't show it. 

What happens if the valves in the front circuit (code 17 or 18) gets stuck?  I've not seen it reported.  Perhaps no-one has lived to do so. 



(Links to this info were further back in this thread.)

[feelergaugephil]

I took ABS "module" out, air line blow thru inlets,  put back together, easy bleed (front brakes 1st)  then back.
100% working good again..

[Freddy]

Inlet AND outlet ports, or just inlets?

[VirginiaJim]

http://youtu.be/W6MkESn1v1w